i have a 2.2l 96 cavalier it 5 speed i have full exhaust airintake but is there a msd for that model engine bc the ign is in the back if any one can help me bc i dont no that much about this cars
the GM ignition on the 2.2 is almost equivalent to MSD... for the cost of MSD, you won't see much gain...
if you want to make it fast do a motor swap. You can drop in a 96-99 2.4... anything else will need the trans mount rewelded. (00 - 02 2.4 and eco)
thank but if i did do that can i use the same wire harnest or all i have to do is swap it and it would fit right in
you'll have to get motor, ecu, trans, and wiring harness... but all the mounting points are the same, so it will bolt right in. and will take you from 105 Crank HP to about 150 Crank HP with a lot more room to improve. the 2.2 needs boost or a lot of money invested in to get to 150
allright thank. is there any thing i could do for that engine nothing internal thoe like chanks and pistons?
after you're done building the 2.2 internally, you'll be lucky to see the same power as a stock 2.4 ... the 2.4 on the other hand, has plenty of internal upgrades.. a couple members here have reached 250 WHEEL horsepower (about 120 above stock) naturally aspirated
MSD ignitions are not worth the money... keep your stocker.
Boost or motor swap... /thread
This thread cracks me up.
Primarily because it shows how ignorant most are to what's been done with the LN2 and what it's easily capable of, but also because it's very clear the OP doesn't have a clue (which certainly wouldn't permit an engine swap lol).
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
oh i know whats been done... and what its capable of... i also know how much more $$ needs to be invested to get there... and dollar for dollar it will never touch the other motor options...
if i gave a 2.4 owner 10,000 dollars and a LN2 owner 10,000 dollars... who do you think will have the faster car?
GME Chat User: Speedline02 wrote:oh i know whats been done... and what its capable of...
Not according to your previous post...
GME Chat User: Speedline02 wrote:i also know how much more $$ needs to be invested to get there... and dollar for dollar it will never touch the other motor options...
You don't seem to "know" anything so far... Depending on goals, the LN2 can even be cheaper.
GME Chat User: Speedline02 wrote:if i gave a 2.4 owner 10,000 dollars and a LN2 owner 10,000 dollars... who do you think will have the faster car?
I think you should be committed to an institution for giving away $10k, and I think the cars will be equally fast because:
A) neither would be able to spend that much on either motor
and
B) both would top out at 108-ish mph while trying to get as far away from you, as fast as possible, before you realized you were insane for giving them the $$$$$
You confuse knowledge with opinion and heresay.
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
OHV notec wrote:
GME Chat User: Speedline02 wrote:if i gave a 2.4 owner 10,000 dollars and a LN2 owner 10,000 dollars... who do you think will have the faster car?
I think you should be committed to an institution for giving away $10k, and I think the cars will be equally fast because:
A) neither would be able to spend that much on either motor
and
B) both would top out at 108-ish mph while trying to get as far away from you, as fast as possible, before you realized you were insane for giving them the $$$$$
You confuse knowledge with opinion and heresay.
he never specified that it was into the motor... he just said 10 grand. and it is not that hard to spend $10,000 on a car when you get involved with boost.
For example, if your car is over 300whp and boosted you will probably need or have:
motor:
pistons
rods
head studs
all new bearings for bottom end
all new gaskets for motor
cam
valvetrain parts
larger injectors
exhaust:
turbo manifold
down pipe
3" exhaust system
turbo related:
turbo
wastegate
dump pipe
bov
charge pipes/ couplers/ tbolts
intercooler
transmission:
clutch
lsd (if you like to put power to the ground)
other:
boost gauge
wideband gauge
pod to put gauges in
boost controller is nice to have
tuneable ecu or $ tuning program
dyno tune
fabrication costs
machine shop cost if you decide to go overbore
break-in oil, then new oil again
break in oil filter, then another new filter
antifreeze for new motor (all the little things start to add up fast, trust me I know
)
there are lots of other mods you could do such as suspension, brakes, etc as it is nice to be able to stop and turn well when you have lb/hp ratios in the sub-10 range
You could easily put 10 thousand into any j-body motor... I am in the midst of building a d16 and parts are much cheaper in my neck of the woods and I'm sure you could put 10 grand into my motor... so I know you could do it in an ld9 or ln2 and if you don't think so then you must be very ignorant. But since I see that you have played around with a few DSM's I am gonna assume you know better and just had a brain fart.
kevo1586 . wrote:OHV notec wrote:GME Chat User: Speedline02 wrote:if i gave a 2.4 owner 10,000 dollars and a LN2 owner 10,000 dollars... who do you think will have the faster car?
I think you should be committed to an institution for giving away $10k, and I think the cars will be equally fast because:
A) neither would be able to spend that much on either motor
and
B) both would top out at 108-ish mph while trying to get as far away from you, as fast as possible, before you realized you were insane for giving them the $$$$$
You confuse knowledge with opinion and heresay.
he never specified that it was into the motor... he just said 10 grand. and it is not that hard to spend $10,000 on a car when you get involved with boost.
For example, if your car is over 300whp and boosted you will probably need or have:
[very basic list of requirements obviously put together by someone who's spent penty of time reading "what do I need to..." lists on forums, but not that familiar with what is actually involved]
there are lots of other mods you could do such as suspension, brakes, etc as it is nice to be able to stop and turn well when you have lb/hp ratios in the sub-10 range
You could easily put 10 thousand into any j-body motor... I am in the midst of building a d16 and parts are much cheaper in my neck of the woods and I'm sure you could put 10 grand into my motor... so I know you could do it in an ld9 or ln2 and if you don't think so then you must be very ignorant. But since I see that you have played around with a few DSM's I am gonna assume you know better and just had a brain fart.
The faster car would be the one that was willing to hack it up SuperStreet Sentra style. Hey look, I can bring obviously unrelated content to the game too!
I figured it wouldn't have to be pointed out that any obvious expenses such as chassis work would be required to put down $10k worth of power, because they would be required for both vehicles equally. I forgot the kind of people who comment on these forums, and
that was ignorant.
My Cav has probably 10x more work into it than my DSM. Your assumption itself is ignorant.
How you managed to overlook the absurdity of the discussion at hand and try to nit-pick at it was, well, ignorant.
Might as well point out that you
could spend $10k modifying a Briggs & Stratton-powered lawn mower, or a dining room table. HOWEVER, just like the vehicles discussed, how much individual areas cost depends on the abilities and resourcefulness of the owners.
You could spend $10k on a forged Ti intake if you wanted to. You could spend $10k on a ported cylinder head. You could spend $10k on gold-plating your block. Hell, you could spend $10k doing basic maintenance if you didn't have a f'ing clue and were paying someone else to do all the work. How absurd do you want to get? Your trying to turn this into a by-the-book discussion is ignorant of the conditions at hand.
But, I'll assume you just had a brain fart.
(Oh how LN2-bashing threads always turn out to be so much fun in the most ridiculous ways)
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
the reality of it is if you want to boost a car you basically need all those parts to do it correctly. If you skimp out you will not make your power, you won't be reliable or you will blow your motor. Simple as that.
If you want to go fast in most econobox motors such as the ln2 or d16(mine) boost is the answer. The motors aren't designed with performance in mind; they are designed to be reliable, good on gas and cheap and because of that they suffer in performance.
Just compare the ln2's in the 1/4mile section to the the ld9's times. The fastest NA ln2 is 15.6... that is not great by any means and that is the fastest one listed on here. The fastest ln2 with power adders is 13.2 which is not even as fast as the fastest NA ld9 listed. That should provide some insight right there.
I know what it is like to build a cheap engine... my d16 is rebuilt (low compression) now and broken in and awaiting spring so I can get the turbo on and go to the dyno. I chose boost because you can not get great numbers from my motor NA and the slowest time on the "top 10 d16 NA" list is 15.3 and the fastest being 12.6 (but that was a strictly track car) which is significantly quicker than the fastest ln2 with power adders.
So unless you have something to prove to someone or money to burn... NA econobox engines are not the answer.
and
If you start tallying up the prices of all those parts (not including other parts not listed) I bet you it will not be far from 10 grand especially when you factor in tax and shipping. Also, I would like to add I'm not bashing the ln2, I'm just trying to be realistic.
kevo1586 . wrote:the reality of it is if you want to boost a car you basically need all those parts to do it correctly. If you skimp out you will not make your power, you won't be reliable or you will blow your motor. Simple as that.
I was pointing out that your list was simply "the tip of the iceberg", and it seemed to emphasize the wrong areas.
kevo1586 . wrote:If you want to go fast in most econobox motors such as the ln2 or d16(mine) boost is the answer. The motors aren't designed with performance in mind; they are designed to be reliable, good on gas and cheap and because of that they suffer in performance.
I won't argue that, but don't leave out the LD9, it's sitting on the same bench.
kevo1586 . wrote:Just compare the ln2's in the 1/4mile section to the the ld9's times. The fastest NA ln2 is 15.6... that is not great by any means and that is the fastest one listed on here. The fastest ln2 with power adders is 13.2 which is not even as fast as the fastest NA ld9 listed. That should provide some insight right there.
Only one more to go and I have LN2-bashing bingo! Step 1: Think of what was posted through the first half of this thread. Step 2: Re-think your statement. Step 3: Realize not everyone who builds up j-bodies posts on these forums. Step 4: Read through old LN2-related threads to find the success stories from non-jbo builders. Step 5: MORE RESEARCH. If you checked, you'd notice both the fastest and most powerful NA LN2s listed here were built motors...built with LOW COMPRESSION for turbo applications. So, how many BUILT LN2's do you think there are on these boards? There's even one fairly frequent poster here who's not even on those lists, and makes power on a strict budget while adhering to very restrictive rules from a sanctioning body. There aren't even enough boosted LN2's here to fill up the top ten, much less put down decent #'s. Once again, read the beginning of this thread.
kevo1586 . wrote:I know what it is like to build a cheap engine... my d16 is rebuilt (low compression) now and broken in and awaiting spring so I can get the turbo on and go to the dyno. I chose boost because you can not get great numbers from my motor NA and the slowest time on the "top 10 d16 NA" list is 15.3 and the fastest being 12.6 (but that was a strictly track car) which is significantly quicker than the fastest ln2 with power adders.
Once again, lists are lame. I've seen an NA d-series run at least low 11's, if it wasn't actually 10s... it's been a while. And yes, the j-body list is much lower. Just like LD9 vs. LN2, the D16 benefits greatly from the amount of people building it in comparison to the LN2 -- which I can't stress enough, DOESN'T EVEN HAVE ENOUGH TO FILL THE TOP 10 LIST.
kevo1586 . wrote:So unless you have something to prove to someone or money to burn... NA econobox engines are not the answer.
I hope you don't consider an LD9 build a "good investment"...
kevo1586 . wrote:If you start tallying up the prices of all those parts (not including other parts not listed) I bet you it will not be far from 10 grand especially when you factor in tax and shipping. Also, I would like to add I'm not bashing the ln2, I'm just trying to be realistic.
And you're also apparently not reading my replies. Am I just wasting my time? (Might as well be a rhetorical question lol)
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
So the question is, How can you make your Cavy fast..........The one obvious answer I haven't seen. SELL IT and buy a better car.
lol.... x2
"its like being the smartest kid with downs syndrome"
If speed and power is all that this is about, a GM 4cyl isnt the best place to start..ever...lol.. Guys on here with 12sec j's have a love for their car, they could of bought something faster but choose not to...
what their reasons are? i have no fkn clue... lol... Im not hatin, i like my Z24 too... But because its in my price range, if i had the 5-10k on top of the car guys are blowing on theirs (literally.. lol), i woulda bought a beemer...
I don't understand why people are hating on this site seeing as it is a specific forum for our type of cars. I know it is kind of silly to spend a lot of time and money on a j-body, but come on wouldn't you love to see the look on the guys face that is driving an m3 as you blow buy him in a sunfire or cavalier!!
LOL most of the people like myself on here want to do something different than the norm and that is to take the underdog and make it a winner. The platform is a cheap on to step into and is reliable and cheap to fix. So it is in a majority of peoples price range. There is a growing aftermarket for theses cars and the parts are getting better and easier to get a hold of. Also the fact that a two door cavalier or sunfire hollowed out is a lot lighter than a lot of other things out there like bmws. Plus a lot of people can't afford 30, 000 at once, but can afford to spread that out over 5 to 10 years.
Plus wrenching is fun. I love being out in the shop screwing around with my car. thats just my take on it.
Lets stop hating on eachother and do what this site is set up to do, which is help eachother, whether it is with info on how to do something or advice on what to do in order to enjoy what they have.
how about this... when my motor (N/A) gets tuned i'll post my slips and track times...
Find me an N/A LN2 that can keep up.
until then
/Thread
Chuck (Chesterton) wrote:the ECOtec guy =D
Well, he certainly could find $10k worth of off-the-shelf parts for it...
Duckofdodo wrote:So the question is, How can you make your Cavy fast..........The one obvious answer I haven't seen. SELL IT and buy a better car.
Since we're apparently being so literal here, I fail to see how that would make the Cavy faster...
paul bateman wrote:i woulda bought a beemer...
Woulda wasted your money...
Scott Saunders wrote:I don't understand why people are hating on this site seeing as it is a specific forum for our type of cars.
...
Lets stop hating on eachother and do what this site is set up to do, which is help eachother, whether it is with info on how to do something or advice on what to do in order to enjoy what they have.
You must be new here...
GME Chat User: Speedline02 wrote:how about this... when my motor (N/A) gets tuned i'll post my slips and track times...
Find me an N/A LN2 that can keep up.
until then
/Thread
There you go. Just don't read everyone else's posts. That will make you sound more logical...
/any semblance of logic and reasoning
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
so you cant find me one that will keep up.. .
forget everything *SAID* here, as its all about what the motor can actually do... find me an N/A LN2 that can keep up with my N/A LD9 with my most current build...
can ya.... can ya do it...
if you next post doesn't have a car specified, you fail and concede your entire argument.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, February 12, 2010 7:43 PM
GME Chat User: Speedline02 wrote:so you cant find me one that will keep up.. .
forget everything *SAID* here, as its all about what the motor can actually do... find me an N/A LN2 that can keep up with my N/A LD9 with my most current build...
can ya.... can ya do it...
if you next post doesn't have a car specified, you fail and concede your entire argument.
OF COURSE NOT. I thought I was pretty clear that nobody here has built an NA LN2 for drag racing. But, LIKE I JUST SAID, you wouldn't know that because YOU DON'T READ FOR @!#$.
Let's not forget you haven't actually done anything yet. So as of right now, my 18+ sec 3000#+ daily is faster...
Conceding points... lol. You present the argument of a 5 year old (with the spelling to match).
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
How about this one from 1997 and from a site last updated on 11-4-00 (couldn't tell you exactly what year) before HP Tuners and before most parts are available now! He did it with the 3T40/3speed, the slowest of the transmission choices to come in a J-Body.
To the best of my knowledge, Byron Clemons never posted on here, but that's easy to see why.....
Edit:
This post was being worked on while josh was typing his post above.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, February 12, 2010 8:10 PM
