hi i am a college student, and i love my 99 sunfire. the only problem i have with it is i cant decide what should be my first mod. i allready put a cherry bomb muffler on but i dont see or feel a difference.
what should i do?

Short ram Intake

Bottom line is that you're not going to feel much, if any difference on a stock 2.2ohv from an exhaust or intake. If you want more go, you need to be thinking about modding things on the engine iteself. It's not going to be quick, easy, or cheap. The cheapest thing you can do for an OHV with the simplest install that will actually make a noticeable difference would be nitrous. Personally, not the route that I'd go, but if you want something to have fun with occasionally, that's it. Otherwise, start saving for a turbo setup, and do the exhaust at the same time, all the way, not just cat-back. Head work and a cam change would be another place where you would see some gains, but again, not quick and easy. Just don't expect too much until you start getting into more time and/or money on it. You might actually want to consider getting another engine and building it on a stand, then swapping it out or having it swapped for you when it's done. With the OHV, unfortunately you have to go for the big stuff to start with, otherwise it's not going to be worth the other things. Hope this helps.

um ...... no ......

the quickest and fastest way to get a gain outa the 2.2 is in fact the exhaust. just not the muffler. but the header the down pipe and the cat.

the next is the intake or get some 1.6 1.7 ratio rockers

heres a few threads to check out http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=2&i=387734&t=387734

nothing that engine is weak

Jacob Smith wrote:nothing that engine is weak

here we go again...

Keep your negativity out of a forum asking for suggestions. If you feel like getting into that argument, there is a multi page thread somewhere on here, just search for it.

Personally i wouldnt put too much hope on a muffler for the 2.2 ... putting "Just a Muffler" on will make the car slower... i can say this first hand because my 93 has a 2.2 in it, and i did that... and a bunch of the 2.2 guys in the Second Gen forum yelled at me for it...

the only differences between the 99 - 02 2200s and the older 2200s (2.2s) is the head.
http://www.jbodysource.org/wiki/MultiGenEngine2point2History
Everything you ever want to know about your motor is there...

are you automatic or manual... if automatic, consider converting over to the 5 speed.... a 2.2 with the automatic trans is nearly 91 WHP... the 5 speed is closer to 105 - 115 ...(the THM 03 (3T30) (93 and older) and THM 04 (4T40) (94 and newer) automatic transes are horrible. they are also known to have their torque converter lock solenoids to go bad)

The 1.6 Roller Rocker arm swap is nice, but its nearly impossible to correctly set the lash, so you will get lifter tick out of the swap. I'm about to pull mine off my motor and go back to stockers. --- I would provide a how to for the swap, but i only have it for the 97 and older heads... Keep that in mind... --- http://www.jbodysource.org/wiki/MultiGenEngineRollerRockers (again 97 and older How-to... use this only as a reference as what is involved... do not use this as a howto)

Depending on what level you want to take your car will depend on what to do to mod your motor.

If you want to go all out and rebuild your motor, i suggest doing a Piston Swap (there are several different types to go with if you are or are not considering forced induction), Eagle Rods, Clevite 77 Berrings, Muelling High Flow Oil Pump), Port and Polished head, Comp. Cams 1.6 Roller Rocker arms, then get you a turbo manifold, turbo, intercooler, blow off valve, injectors, and tune (do your research for all parts related to turboing)

or if you just want to go with bolt-ons or engine tricks... heres what available
go Header - OBX - More bottom End Power, or Pacesetter - More Top End Power
CAI - Cold Air Intake, several different companies make them, make sure you get a water release valve or locate the filter in a spot water cannot reach
K&N Air Filter
Relocate IAT (Intake Air Temp) Sensor (located on your rubber intake between filter and TB) to some where cold (but make sure water cannot get to it)
Comp. Cams 1.6 Roller Rockers (not quite a bolt on, its a little more involved, but still only takes an hour or so to do)
Install a glass pack resinator between the cat and the muffler if you want an aftermarket muffler so you can retain the back pressure your motor so desparately needs
get the AC Delco Rapid Fire Plugs, and 8mm Wires (i recommend Excel)
MSD Ignition... ive heard mixed reviews on this... some people say the gain, other people say the GM ignition is just a strong
Chip or Tune ECM/PCM - Superchips is one of many that can help you here
i believe RSM makes a 62 mm Throttlebody/Intake manifold set up... (if not RSM, somebody does)
Performance Pulleys - do some research, not sure if this is anymore than a cosmetic swap.
Hyper Ground / Hyper Power kits - again do research. The ground kit claims to gain 1 - 5 HP... but it is very useful to use to replace stock corroded and worn grounds
If your automatic, you can get an external Transmission fluid cooler. They dont make a kit for the car (at least they didnt 2 years ago) but you can get a universal and just cut your tranny lines going in to the radiator
200 Amp Recoiled Alternator - Find a shop that will do it... not much for performance, but will help if you want to put a system in
Optima Red/Yellow/Blue Top Battery - Again not much for performance, higher Cold Cranking Amps, will also help with a system.
Helix Spacer between the TB and the IM...
even if you dont swap the IM/TB ... you do want to take if off once a year and clean it... more than likely you'll need a new gasket when doing so...

i'm sure im forgetting some.

Your last option. Rip it out and swap
I'd recommend getting a LD9 2.4 out of (or made for) a sunfire GT (including trans and PCM/ECM) ... this would be the easist swap... there are other motors than can go in but will need a bit more work to be done...
Ecotec
Quad 4 LO (2.3)
Quad 4 HO (2.3)
3100 V6
3400 V6
3800 V6
3800 SuperCharged v6
Northstar v8 (needs a lot of modifications, but can be done)
im sure there are other motors as well... this was just a brief list...


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I highly recommend AGAINST boosting this motor without some form of internals... the Stock 2.2 Block can only hold 4 lbs reliably





Edited 4 time(s). Last edited Monday, September 24, 2007 8:00 AM

mufflers obviously dont give performance. so you wont feel any difference. your first mod should be a cold air or short ram intake. youll notice a difference. it will be your best bang for your buck. also it sounds really good when you open the throttle wide.

Working on obtainting an M-Class license... ?? Hint: 2 wheels.

^ ^ ^ ^
you know... i never noticed any sound difference with the 2.2 but i did with the 2.4 (and then again when i did the HO Swap)... i was disappointed with the 2.2 =P oh well

Go with solid motor mounts and tranny mounts.

Quote:

I highly recommend AGAINST boosting this motor without some form of internals... the Stock 2.2 Block can only hold 4 lbs reliably

I disagree, based on experience and the reported results of several members. The stock fuel system will have trouble supporting over 4 psi, but I promise the stock engine will reliably hold up to at least 7 psi with proper tuning. Ask me how I know.

Quote:

Install a glass pack resinator between the cat and the muffler if you want an aftermarket muffler so you can retain the back pressure your motor so desparately needs

Ummm... engines really do not like backpressure. They do like pipes sized for peak velocity at the rpm range where peak torque is expected. Kind of advanced stuff, I guess, but the point is not to add pressure inducing devices.

Pulley changes and reductions in driveline mass still help performance although they're a little harder to accomplish today. A lighter crank pulley and a larger alternator pulley can help "free up" some stock hp. Choosing wheels / tires with the least amount of rotating mass, especially at the outer diameters, is very helpful.

The comp rockers are noisy. I've used several sets on different engines. It's not an issue of lash adjustment, it's the design of the rocker. I'd love to get another set if the price was right.

Throw out the textbooks! They weigh a ton, cost a fortune, and cause you nothing but grief and heartache. Convince your professors that books reduce the inertia of an ambitious student and you've realized that the more velocity you lose now, the harder it will be to maintain your direction when you're 45 (be sure to adjust the age here so it matches the professor's apparent age). Tell them from now on you only want information presented on CD, DVD, or better yet online. And really, if you can't remember it after one presentation, is it really worth knowing anyway?

-->Slow

slowolej wrote:

Quote:

I highly recommend AGAINST boosting this motor without some form of internals... the Stock 2.2 Block can only hold 4 lbs reliably

I disagree, based on experience and the reported results of several members. The stock fuel system will have trouble supporting over 4 psi, but I promise the stock engine will reliably hold up to at least 7 psi with proper tuning. Ask me how I know.

4 and 7 are relatively close... its still not 10 - 15 like other motors can hold... plus you're asking to break something if you don't upgrade your motor with the turbo... 7 PSI on a stock block will not last forever...

Quote:

Quote:

Install a glass pack resinator between the cat and the muffler if you want an aftermarket muffler so you can retain the back pressure your motor so desparately needs

Ummm... engines really do not like backpressure. They do like pipes sized for peak velocity at the rpm range where peak torque is expected. Kind of advanced stuff, I guess, but the point is not to add pressure inducing devices.

I never said to add it... i said to retain it. this has always been a very hot topic in the second gen forum over the years, the bottom line has always been... stock header, stock pipes, stock cat, Aftermarket muffler = slower car .. adding the glass pack, regains what you lost (doesnt give you any extra though).

Quote:

Pulley changes and reductions in driveline mass still help performance although they're a little harder to accomplish today. A lighter crank pulley and a larger alternator pulley can help "free up" some stock hp. Choosing wheels / tires with the least amount of rotating mass, especially at the outer diameters, is very helpful.

Quote:

The comp rockers are noisy. I've used several sets on different engines. It's not an issue of lash adjustment, it's the design of the rocker. I'd love to get another set if the price was right.

What about the Crane Cam rockers... any better??? (see - http://www.jbodysource.org/wiki/MultiGenEngineRollerRockers ) i could deal with the noise if it didnt sound like "Lifter Tick" and moreso "His car is about to fall apart" ... blah... i dunno why im bothering with performance... i have 2000 lbs of fibreglass on the car.

Well, FWIW I drove mine for 3 years with 7 psi, no ic. Car still starts and runs, no reason to think the engine wouldn't make another 2-3 years. Rust is the enemy here...

Yes, 4psi isn't too far from 7. But 4 is low enough to sound like "turbo isn't worth doing" while 7 provides a good payoff for those willing to spend the money or time. I would have gone for more had I not been using a too-small T25. Forged rods / pistons allow one to spend less time on the tune for low boost.

Crane rockers are usually a little quieter, but the 2.2 head seems to transmit noise even from a stock valvetrain, at least on the cars with a roller cam. I know what you mean about the noise being annoying, too. I never have like hearing valve noise. It's like driving a sewing machine.

I'm going to try a hybrid rocker using stock parts starting with the roller fulcrum rocker from a 3100 plus the 10mm stud from an older 3.1. I think those rockers will be quieter than the Comp rollers and I should be able to get 'em cheap from the junkyard.

-->Slow

i used the 10 mm studs from the older 2.8s ... i have a 93 block ... the roller cams wern't introduced until 94...

Quote:

I would have gone for more had I not been using a too-small T25. Forged rods / pistons allow one to spend less time on the tune for low boost.

wait does that mean you have forged rods and pistons, or are you are making the statement on forged rods and pistons...

Sorry... that was two different statements. My turbo engine is bone stock. It was pulled from a junkyard car and installed in my '93. I would have turned the boost up and switched from 87 to 89 Octane if the turbo wasn't heating the air so much it wasn't going to make a difference.

My opinion is that most people don't take the time to make a real good tune. So you read plenty of stories about stock or near stock engines blowing up with fairly low boost . Switching to stronger parts allows the engine to live longer with a bad tune, so pretty quick people say a stock block can't take it but a forged one can.

I guess I need to do more research. I thought the stud you mention was also used in the 3.1 If not I'm going to need to do more digging. Not too many 2.8's in junkyards anymore.

-->Slow.

i think i spent like 30 bucks for the studs from the dealer

thanks for your knowledge it really helps. im still thinking if i should even put any money in to it or if i should get a z24 or a new ss cobalt. what do you think?

Z24

FTW

im not just sayin that cause i own one...

Ditch some weight. A lot of people overlook this. Get rid of anything on your car you aren't using. Live in the middle of the arctic? Drop the AC. Live in the tropics? Drop the heater. Don't want to car pool anymore? Huck that back seat in the dumpster. You don't need as much power if you aren't hauling as much crap in your car.

On the power route, an engine swap could be had for fairly cheap, depending on what you go for, or just go bolt-on crazy and see what happens. Either way, it'll cost the same (though honestly, the better result comes from the swap).


2010 Honda Fit LX

I've said it before and I will say it again.

FIRST thing you mod on ANY car is the loose nut behind the wheel.

learn how to lauch perfect, learn the shift points, then work on the cars weaknesses.

and like previusly stated, fart cans do nothing for you. they just make you loud. I don't know why hundreds of thousands of kids can't get this through thier heads.


on a more positive note, you can get away with bolt ons and not tuning for a little while cause those motors run a tad rich from the factory and intake/exaust will help flatten them out(so long as your exaust is correctly sized)

before I deployed I diddn't have money to do @!#$ to mine, but I did have a die grinder, dremel tool and some bits. I did minor work to the intake mani, tb, exaust mani, and some airbox carving. I also made sure the trunk was empty, the interior was clean, rear tires slightly over inflated, and I was running on less than 1/4 tank when I went out racing. donno how much all that really helped vs. bone stock. it was not neck snapping dramatic but the car definatly was faster. rember, this whole time my ass could not afford an exaust so that @!#$ was still stock and I still got gains.

I actually pulled some pretty good kills with it. however as far as the porting/grinding only do that if you know what you are doing, I do not take responsibility for youir broken car.


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Those so naive, so hard headed, so narcissistic, that think that buy their own efforts can single handedly change the world, are always the ones that do.

Scott Ryman wrote:Live in the tropics? Drop the heater.

i would not recommend pulling the heater. The heater core is not all that heavy... a couple lbs if that... and antifreeze runs to it 24/7... so you would have to cap off both heater core hoses. and you really cant remove much more from the "Black box" unless you eliminate your AC and all your duct work as well... even when i lived in Florida i needed to use the defrost some mornings in wintertime...


but in the same respects.. you can weight reduce power steering, air bags, and the passenger seat as well


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:40 AM

I have seen people take out the pass seat at the track


I always thoughtit would be funny as @!#$ to take out my pass seat, then go to pic someone up late at night so it is dark, and watch them fall in the car when theseat is not there. or justsee the look on thier face when they see there is no seat forthem.


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Those so naive, so hard headed, so narcissistic, that think that buy their own efforts can single handedly change the world, are always the ones that do.

if its a hottie... i'd be like .... you can sit on my lap...

Not that my opinion matters much, but 1 of the very best things to do to your car is to learn how to drive it. I am not just talking about the regular stop and go madness, but maybe learn at which rpms to shift at (no, it is not always at redline). Or when taking turns find out at which angle your car can safely turn at and still accelarate without ever hitting the brake. It is always good to drive your car and find out how much potential it has stock then to jump straight into modding. Hehe i used to drive a Ford Aspire and when i beat people off the line i always laughed at the other guy/gal. Oh and btw Cavy > Aspire by a longshot took a while to get used to actually driving a car.

xell wrote:Not that my opinion matters much, but 1 of the very best things to do to your car is to learn how to drive it. I am not just talking about the regular stop and go madness, but maybe learn at which rpms to shift at (no, it is not always at redline). Or when taking turns find out at which angle your car can safely turn at and still accelarate without ever hitting the brake. It is always good to drive your car and find out how much potential it has stock then to jump straight into modding. Hehe i used to drive a Ford Aspire and when i beat people off the line i always laughed at the other guy/gal. Oh and btw Cavy > Aspire by a longshot took a while to get used to actually driving a car.

nutcase wrote:I've said it before and I will say it again.

FIRST thing you mod on ANY car is the loose nut behind the wheel.

you would never belive how many people don't catch my referance or even when I tell them in plain english they don't really belive me.





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Those so naive, so hard headed, so narcissistic, that think that buy their own efforts can single handedly change the world, are always the ones that do.