ok...base info

rebuilt head, stainless valves oversize 1mm
new timing chain/tensioner/shoe/guides (gears aren't new)
block milled .007
head milled .003
n/a cometic head gasket .030 thickness

My issue is, I've got too much slack in my timing chain. Tensioner is nearly all the way out when set. I was told I got too much slack, so shim it somehow. Now what I did for spacing (merely trial) was put a 13mm nut in (identical to one used on intake manifold studs) to space the plunger from the tensioner housing. This seemed to help, but there's still slack in the chain at certain points of the rotation. Could I have gotten a chain thats a link too long somehow? ideas? suggestions? I've timed several 2.4's and never missed....I've timed this engine at least 15 times...never a success. Also, can I leave that nut in there? Will it still oil ok or is there a way I can see if it'll work?

.031" shouldnt cause any problems. Have you compaired the two chains? Counted the links? (I've never heard of finding one a link short/long)

are you rotating it clockwise?




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

So...with everything, you are more than .020" under stock installed height. That may cause some issues, but I wouldn't think much. And you are sure that you have all 3 guides installed (left, right and top)? If the gears aren't new, I would check all 4 and make sure there aren't any damaged teeth.

Out of curiosity, why don't you install a new water pump while the motor is apart?


-

"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.

did you use all new guides ? worn out guides would also allow for alot of slack

A question, you stated "slack in the chain at certain points of the rotation". When you first time it and do not rotate the motor is everything tight like it is suppose to be? Once you rotate the motor around a full time and go back to TDC is everything tight?

Reason I ask is in the past I have timed 2.4's that have never had the heads off completely factory and there would be some slack in sections during the rotation of the crank, but once back at TDC everything was tight (and the timing marks lined up)



FU Tuning

SpeedRacerZ wrote:.029" shouldnt cause any problems.

My bad, added when I should have subtracted......

Brian Whalen wrote:So...with everything, you are more than .020" under stock installed height.

Its actually only a .018" difference (going by a stock compressed HG height of .047")

John, I told him the same thing on AIM....




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

SpeedRacerZ wrote:

SpeedRacerZ wrote:.029" shouldnt cause any problems.

My bad, added when I should have subtracted......

Brian Whalen wrote:So...with everything, you are more than .020" under stock installed height.

Its actually only a .018" difference (going by a stock compressed HG height of .047")

John, I told him the same thing on AIM....

DroptopPaul wrote:ok...base info

rebuilt head, stainless valves oversize 1mm
new timing chain/tensioner/shoe/guides (gears aren't new)
block milled .007
head milled .003
n/a cometic head gasket .030 thickness

How do you figure? Milling will seat the cylinder head/ cam gears lower.

(Difference in gasket thickness) + (sum of everything else that is shaved) = New installed height
(.047-.030) + (.007 + .003) = .027" lower than stock installed height



-

"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.

the height is not an issue.


HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED

Thanks for the input guys, this is actually my engine We are trying to time.. For some reason as paul stated, when we at 180 degree off of TDC, there is slack at the bottom of the chain, enough for me to move it with my fingers..

EVERYTHING is new on this engine, less than 900 miles.. So the shoes havent even been worn yet.

As we're timing, the stupid plunger goes back in itself when we're at 180 degree off of TDC, not all the way, but halfway. But when we're back at TDC, the plunger comes back out all the way.. On a correctly timed engine, is the plunger all the way out, or halway out?

And, when we're back at TDC, the dowel pins dont go completely in the holes behind the cam gears.. I believe THAT is the problem, but what do I know? lol

All 3 of my service manuals say. "once you've rotated the engine over 2 times, you should be able to slide the dowel pins in all the way" Well, mine dont do that.











~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ

this might be a shot in the dark, but the oil pump is positive displacement.. so if you spun the engine backwards, it MIGHT pull the plunger back in...


HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED

Update..

The car is timed now.. Thanks Trey for coming over to help.. The dowel pins slide in and out of the cam gears with ease now at TDC.. The only concern right now is that there is a little bit of slack down by the crank gear.. Trey is going to take off is timing cover on his spare engine and compare his to mine then go from there.. Im considering also using the 1 piece tentioner because I have the 2 piece one and the damn thing keeps going back inside itself at TDC as we're timing. But I know there is no oil pressure in there so that could be the reason..
So we'll see.













~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ

Alright guys, a little help here plleaaase!! Below are some pics..

Would you trust this and go with it? The gears in these pics are sitting at TDC.. We took a look at Trey's timed at TDC on his spare motor and he doesn't have this much slack.

Oh, and btw, I even put a 1 piece timing tentioner on this and the slack is still there.

What do you think?




Me pressing against the chain.


Any suggestions? Im at a total loss on this one.. I dont need to buy new valves again, let alone I dont want to buy new pistons of the car jumps timing again.

Thanks.











~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ

The haynes manual says for no slack between the intake cam and the crank. That looks like slack. I assume if you turn the crank to get rid of the slack (just a tad) it would no longer be on TDC??? If so then no. I would not be good with that.



FU Tuning

id say try a diff tensioner, if you have the one piece try the 2 piece, if opposite try vice versa, just something to try and 20 dollars is worth savin ur valves and pistons

It has nothing to do with the tensioner (at this point in the picture). When timing it you have to move the slack over to the tensioner side. I can say from experience it can be a real bastard getting a 2.4 timed. I have spent 1-2 hours just doing that so it was dead on. Of course with the motor out of the car it always went easy like a couple minutes.



FU Tuning

That looks similar to when I had the two cams timed without the top guide in and there was absoulutely no slack between the cam gears...but if all the guides are in, then I really don't know what to tell you.


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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.

id also say itd have nothing to do with the tensioner, but he says its tight then he rotates it and it gets lose so someplace has to give... or be out of alignment/bent, kinda like my bike chain it goes from tight to lose every rotation, its cuz my sprocket isnt alligned and wobbles up and down... i also missed the part where he said "I even put a 1 piece timing tentioner on this and the slack is still there." is anything bent, sprockets, cams, crank?

In this pic, it looks like if you where to rotate the crank (and if the cams are pined) you are off 1 tooth..... but I can only see the one pic.

Double check you have the crank and cams lined up, chain on, and tensioner extended (guides in). Rotate the engine clockwise slowly, 720*. As you aproach the timing mark, stop just before you get to it (front of keyway just before dot). Is the chain tight? If so, check the cam gear positions, are they close? Rotate the crank that last few degrees, till everything lines up. Chain still tight? Or did the cams "lurch" forward?

If you have it timed correctly, no slack between the cam gears and crank, I dont see anything else you can do. Put the chain cover on, pull the fuel pump relay, and crank it over for 10 seconds. Put the relay back in, and start it.








SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

John Higgins wrote:The haynes manual says for no slack between the intake cam and the crank. That looks like slack. I assume if you turn the crank to get rid of the slack (just a tad) it would no longer be on TDC??? If so then no. I would not be good with that.

You are correct, I can turn the crank just a tad and get rid of the slack but I will no longer be at TDC.

gmanz24-Yup, I tried both tentioner designs.

Brian, your right, If I turn the crank just a bit it will turn by its self then 'catch' the chain, but at that time, im PAST TDC.
But, ill try what you just suggested here in a little while.

Thanks guys.














~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ

with the LD9 @ TDC you will never have a perfectly tight chain, never have, never will, you will have to turn it 5 degrees off. I have done it a million times, and I always notice it is gay.


HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED

ge_forcez22 wrote:with the LD9 @ TDC you will never have a perfectly tight chain, never have, never will, you will have to turn it 5 degrees off. I have done it a million times, and I always notice it is gay.

Oh really? Never. I can show you about 4 LD9's that are dead on with no slack.



FU Tuning

Well I just went back out there to turn the engine over 2 times by hand, still the same.. There is only slack at TDC, like I said before when im 180 degress off TDC, the 'lurch' happens and I have slack, when I get past 180 degrees, the chain tightens up.. I dont get it..

But I did notice, when the crank is lined up with the dot on the block, that the intake cam dowel pins goes all the way in, but the exhaust cam dowel doesnt.. BUT when I turn it like 2-3 degrees past TDC that BOTH dowel pins go in fine..

So do you think Im still off a tooth or so?











~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ

John Higgins wrote:

ge_forcez22 wrote:with the LD9 @ TDC you will never have a perfectly tight chain, never have, never will, you will have to turn it 5 degrees off. I have done it a million times, and I always notice it is gay.

Oh really? Never. I can show you about 4 LD9's that are dead on with no slack.

I don't need to see 4, post one pic. with both dowls in and the top gear dead on TDC.


HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED

ge_forcez22 wrote:

John Higgins wrote:

ge_forcez22 wrote:with the LD9 @ TDC you will never have a perfectly tight chain, never have, never will, you will have to turn it 5 degrees off. I have done it a million times, and I always notice it is gay.

Oh really? Never. I can show you about 4 LD9's that are dead on with no slack.

I don't need to see 4, post one pic. with both dowls in and the top gear dead on TDC.

Sorry no pictures. Next time I'm swaping cams I will have to take pictures. I naver have in the past. I can only promise that mine and a few others I have done have always been dead on. I have only let 1 2.4 go running with it slightly off. That beeing the Reaper with a head that has been shave at least 3 times, and I really do not know how much each time.

When we have times 2.4's while still in the car we have spent lots of time doing so. We would get sometimes exactly what is in the above pictures, but we would start over and keep doing it until we got it right.



FU Tuning

Thats what im going to have to do, is keep doing it over until its right I guess..











~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ