In rethinking the plans for my car and I'm going to stay N/A for reliability.
What would it take to make 200 wHP all motor?
Here's what I'm thinking.
All the bolt ons.
Mild cams.
Head work, possibly shaving the head.
Maybe higher compression pistons?
What do you think?
Shaving the head might not be a good idea on the 2.4 because of the timing chain.
As far as reaching your HP goal of 200 WHP all motor...anything is possible. How much higher compression pistons are you trying to run?
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Ok, but do you realize those few things you just mentioned, a good number of the hp heads on this forum already have going and are no where near that number, n/a.
I say some crank work, head work, high compression pistons, mild or hot cam, and some timing advance should do the trick.
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you'd need more then a wild cam.. as well as a higher rev limiter
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See I'm lost I was just throwing out some Ideas. Really just wanted the "what would you do"
I'm still in the learning process and you guys have been great in guiding me so far.
def. need these things
ported polished head with larger valves
def. a decent cam nothing mild
higher rev limiter
full 2.5 inch exhaust
2.3 ho manifold
bigger tb
forged pistons and rods
probly 11.5:1 CR or 12:1 depending on tune
over bore of .020" or .040"
remove the balance shafts
2.3 oil pump conversion
intake and exhaust ports matched to manifolds
possibility would be a stroker kit...
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"mild" anything isn't gonna get you 200 hp n/a lol... phil listed some good ideas, but a stroker setup and bigger valves aren't necesary... in fact, bigger valves may end up giving you more headaches than hp. Now, I don't have firsthand experience with the 2.4, and so anything specific to the 2.4 is just what I remember reading from my time on here. If any of the 2.4 guru's see a mistake, please correct me.
Get the HO head that everyone is always trying to find on here. A good port job on that will put you way ahead of the game compared to the normal 2.4 head. Same thing with the HO manifold. Call a cam grinder like Crane, Comp, Elgin, Wolf, etc... Make sure you have a flowbench readout of your head handy to send to them. Discuss with them your plans, goals, and what the rest of the setup will be. They have been doing this for many years and will be able to come up with a much better cam for your application than anything "off the shelf".
Jack up the compression ratio.... you could probably make 200 whp on 11:1, and still run pump gas (93 though). Have the bottom end balanced, att least get the crank lightened somewhat. For a 2.4, an upgraded oil system is necessary.
Then you have to worry about tuning. if your car is OBD1 you could probably find someone out there to program an EPROM for you and you could maintain your stock engine manangement. If its OBD2, then you can try emanage, but i'd recommend Megasquirt for its ability for total control....
But, to be honest, for right now, I'd recommend that you spend a LOT of time searching the .org for more information on the suggestions you've received so far. You'll be doing yourself a favor by knowing every aspect of your engine, its weaknesses and strengths, and what is available for it. Also try searching quad4forums.com... they probably have a lot of info you can use as well.
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why not stroke,bore, high copresion,port & plished heads,wild cams
o! and ITB plus all the things listed above....then maybe
Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:"mild" anything isn't gonna get you 200 hp n/a lol... phil listed some good ideas, but a stroker setup and bigger valves aren't necesary... in fact, bigger valves may end up giving you more headaches than hp. Now, I don't have firsthand experience with the 2.4, and so anything specific to the 2.4 is just what I remember reading from my time on here. If any of the 2.4 guru's see a mistake, please correct me.
Get the HO head that everyone is always trying to find on here. A good port job on that will put you way ahead of the game compared to the normal 2.4 head. Same thing with the HO manifold. Call a cam grinder like Crane, Comp, Elgin, Wolf, etc... Make sure you have a flowbench readout of your head handy to send to them. Discuss with them your plans, goals, and what the rest of the setup will be. They have been doing this for many years and will be able to come up with a much better cam for your application than anything "off the shelf".
Jack up the compression ratio.... you could probably make 200 whp on 11:1, and still run pump gas (93 though). Have the bottom end balanced, att least get the crank lightened somewhat. For a 2.4, an upgraded oil system is necessary.
Then you have to worry about tuning. if your car is OBD1 you could probably find someone out there to program an EPROM for you and you could maintain your stock engine manangement. If its OBD2, then you can try emanage, but i'd recommend Megasquirt for its ability for total control....
But, to be honest, for right now, I'd recommend that you spend a LOT of time searching the .org for more information on the suggestions you've received so far. You'll be doing yourself a favor by knowing every aspect of your engine, its weaknesses and strengths, and what is available for it. Also try searching quad4forums.com... they probably have a lot of info you can use as well.
scarab got more into the research then I did but the reason why I did not suggest the 086 head is because as far as I know it takes ALOT of work to properly work, changing of oil passages and then extreme rise in compression due to the thickness I believe.... I think you could port out a 2.4 head pretty well...
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Thanks guys. I have read about the 086 head, but like QBE said its a lot of work and this is my daily driver. Maybe I should rethink my goals for the car. From the get go I've wanted a well rounded auto. I think I have the beginnings of a decent suspension and my braking systems on the way. I just want to add some power. Maybe I'll shoot for 165-175 and spray a 35 shot on forged pistons. I would assume that would be rather safe? Correct me if i'm wrong.
Kinetik wrote:Thanks guys. I have read about the 086 head, but like QBE said its a lot of work and this is my daily driver. Maybe I should rethink my goals for the car. From the get go I've wanted a well rounded auto. I think I have the beginnings of a decent suspension and my braking systems on the way. I just want to add some power. Maybe I'll shoot for 165-175 and spray a 35 shot on forged pistons. I would assume that would be rather safe? Correct me if i'm wrong.
spray wouldnt be a bad idea... but honestly.. why dont you just bolt on a turbo kit?
you wont need to rebuild because 200 whp on an auto is mild and you'd still have room for improvement if you wanted to build the motor later on and go bigger
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Quote:
Get the HO head that everyone is always trying to find on here. A good port job on that will put you way ahead of the game compared to the normal 2.4 head. Same thing with the HO manifold.
^^ best advice so far...that with some good cams will get you well on your way
might want to think about raising your rev limiter aswell(as mentioned)
tyler durton wrote:Quote:
Get the HO head that everyone is always trying to find on here. A good port job on that will put you way ahead of the game compared to the normal 2.4 head. Same thing with the HO manifold.
^^ best advice so far...that with some good cams will get you well on your way
might want to think about raising your rev limiter aswell(as mentioned)
it is good advice, but does the amount of work to get it to work correctly outweigh the gains?
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Karo is running 235 NA but he has a whole lot done. The list of things done to his car to get that is real long.
What is listed above is not even hald of what he has had done. It i will cost you a bit to get that HP the most i have seen NA other than KARO is around 160HP.
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Mylife75 (ajose) wrote:Karo is running 235 NA but he has a whole lot done. The list of things done to his car to get that is real long.
What is listed above is not even hald of what he has had done. It i will cost you a bit to get that HP the most i have seen NA other than KARO is around 160HP.
yeah def...
I know i tried for a long time to get a lot of whp NA, the most I made was 148 whp and that was with a fuxored ecu due to my pretty wild cams... I think if I had a head, and hp tuners I coulda seen well over 160, maybe 170--180 with being able to adjust timing, fuel and rev limit..
building and NA motor is VERY tough...
I just talked with my roomate and along with doing machine work to the bottom of the head (coolant passages and oil passages) he also explained that there is some work involved with the cam and cam towers as well...
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I see.. Here's my thing. A basic turbo kit is what $2500? That includes no fuel upgrades, no injectors, no intercooler. And from what NJHK has said you need those things on our cars as the stock fuel system sucks. I thought maybe if I went N/A I could piece it together over time.
no if you wanna run only 6 psi an fmu and stock injectors and stock pump will be fine... trust me NJHK doesnt know everything.. unfortunatley he has no hands on experience and only regurgatates what he hears or reads...
but he is right you need an intercooler... and for 2500 you should get an fmu with the kit...
and building that NA motor will probly cost you JUST as much as a turbo kit would...
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^and have the potential for more power, because horse power is the most addictive drug out there, and you will want more and more, trust me, its worse than heroin
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Kinetik wrote:I see.. Here's my thing. A basic turbo kit is what $2500? That includes no fuel upgrades, no injectors, no intercooler. And from what NJHK has said you need those things on our cars as the stock fuel system sucks. I thought maybe if I went N/A I could piece it together over time.
I've said you should, not that you couldn't.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
I am going to try and go NA. The one thing about NA it can be done over time while gaining a little power with each mod. I want to go NA route with high compression pistons may be 11:1
2004 Grand Prix GTP (Competition Group)
SOLD-->1999 Z24 5M-#30 to register on JBO
"You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people'
all the time
