I have a Pontiac Sunfire SE Coupe and I was wondering if anyone knows if the dual exhaust system on a Sunfire GT will fit on the SE model and if so, what years would fit. I notice that the body is already set-up for it with a exhaust space on the passenger side bumper.
Makes it look fast. . .and actually go slower
All 3rd gen exhaust setups SHOULD fit all 3rd gen cars.
As far as going slower, not all care about the slight loss of power you might lose...I keep mine dual cause it looks nice and goes well with my kit. Pretty much why.
The question I would ask is why he's swaping a stock dual exhaust LOL j/k
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
im pretty sure it will 2 1/4 piping is big nuf.......
dont really understand the loss of power when having duels on a sunfire??
i cant punch hard enuf,i cant kick high enuf,i cant shoot straight enuf,i cant die dead enuf!
http://members.cardomain.com/bluetallic
there is no loss other wise why would GM put it on? But there is no gain either... i personally would never go with a fake dual exhaust on my sunfire... personally it looks stupid when it T's of at the back so its not even a true dual and it just adds more weight.
Supercharged 2.4L
ok.....fitment: yes it will physically fit but the flange is at a different location so will have to cut the pipe before the cat. other than that it is direct bolt-in. also as long as it is the same generation it should be fine. Loss of power: the added weight from the extra piping will "slow you down" but nothing significant. Why he would want the stock duals: gives dual exhaust, guaranteed to fit, ***most importantly not raspy like rksport. ......i am looking to do this too but havent found a stock set of duals yet. good luck finding a set.
"Official Jewish J-Body"
I have the dual exhaust setup on an SE. I'm looking at a cat-back, though. So If you're still looking for a setup, I might be willing to talk about selling you mine. Depends on how much you're looking to spend vs how soon I can get the cat-back. Send me an e-mail. kaotik210@hotmail.com
Just out of curiosity, could you use a aftermarket header, and smaller diameter duel exhaust(1.25 or 1.50) to keep the performance?
Eric Esler wrote:Just out of curiosity, could you use a aftermarket header, and smaller diameter duel exhaust(1.25 or 1.50) to keep the performance?
No, that would be pointless. You'll have faster, more free flowing exhaust but then once it hits stock it stops. Think of blowing through a straw. You can get more air out without the straw than with. Now try that on your car but with the fast air hitting a brick wall. And why would you want to go that small?
But you're off to a start. Don't half ass anything, go for it all at once.
actually thinking of a straw, you can blow more out of 2 slightly smaller straws than 1 slightly bigger if the 2 smaller straws have the same or larger internal size as the 1. As for the choosing the size I posted, I was just guessing that the 2 pipes added to gether would give you 2.5 or 3, 3 mabye being prefered to allow the air to be more free flowing after dividing it.
But if you have 2 larger straws then the flow will be that much better. You don't want to go too small yet you don't want to go too big. Too small and you're at stock like performance, too big and you don't have any back-pressure. Go big when you have forced induction or boost. But I see where you are coming from...I'm not that huge of a tech guru, maybe someone else can help out more, but it still seems that you should go bigger. Thinking about it...the gases don't want to be compressed once out in the open (the larger piping)...sure they will be traveling in two different directions but they will then be compressed. I've heard this before on here (forget who said it), "an exhaust is only as good as it's smallest part." Take that into some consideration.
And who doesn't want an after market exhaust sound?
Hope this might help just a bit...
Check out my profile for my exhaust, sounds good and performs well too.
Freebs wrote:there is no loss other wise why would GM put it on? But there is no gain either... i personally would never go with a fake dual exhaust on my sunfire... personally it looks stupid when it T's of at the back so its not even a true dual and it just adds more weight.
theres a loss, although small.
why would they put it on...?? the majority of society thinks more on looks than performance.
they add body kits, and from a performance perspective, its extra weight. two mufflers, same thing.
its either you wanna look good, or wanna be fast.
Jason M wrote:But if you have 2 larger straws then the flow will be that much better. You don't want to go too small yet you don't want to go too big. Too small and you're at stock like performance, too big and you don't have any back-pressure. Go big when you have forced induction or boost. But I see where you are coming from...I'm not that huge of a tech guru, maybe someone else can help out more, but it still seems that you should go bigger. Thinking about it...the gases don't want to be compressed once out in the open (the larger piping)...sure they will be traveling in two different directions but they will then be compressed. I've heard this before on here (forget who said it), "an exhaust is only as good as it's smallest part." Take that into some consideration.
And who doesn't want an after market exhaust sound?
Hope this might help just a bit...
Check out my profile for my exhaust, sounds good and performs well too.
one things....cars dont need backpressure.
cars need high exhaust velocity for optimal hp and torque.
too big gives gasses time to expand and cool down, aka... slow down. hence the reason shooting a bullet out of a cannon would be pointless, theres not enough velocity to fire one.
Quote:
actually thinking of a straw, you can blow more out of 2 slightly smaller straws than 1 slightly bigger if the 2 smaller straws have the same or larger internal size as the 1. As for the choosing the size I posted, I was just guessing that the 2 pipes added to gether would give you 2.5 or 3, 3 mabye being prefered to allow the air to be more free flowing after dividing it.
depends.... take 2 inches as the start level, then +.5 inches, and -.5 inches from the starting point. granted if you have two 1.5 inch straws, and one 2.5 straw, then its around 3 inches vs 2.5.... however the amount of exhaust being let out is still the same. duals would actually slow you down with the weight and exhaust flow. most here drive 4 cylinders. our displacement is around 2 -2.5
most 6-8 cylinders that require dual exhaust displace around 2-3 times as much as we do.
they have a need for duals, we dont. keep in mind stock is 1.47 inches inside on avg.
free flow is good, but to large and like said above, its like shooting a bullet out of a cannon. you might as well be constipated.
Drewz wrote:Machzel08
i got a stock set of duels in my shed!
well the next time your in PA, or the states for that matter,...give me a ring
"Official Jewish J-Body"
Dam-it Muffins (Event) wrote:Jason M wrote:But if you have 2 larger straws then the flow will be that much better. You don't want to go too small yet you don't want to go too big. Too small and you're at stock like performance, too big and you don't have any back-pressure. Go big when you have forced induction or boost. But I see where you are coming from...I'm not that huge of a tech guru, maybe someone else can help out more, but it still seems that you should go bigger. Thinking about it...the gases don't want to be compressed once out in the open (the larger piping)...sure they will be traveling in two different directions but they will then be compressed. I've heard this before on here (forget who said it), "an exhaust is only as good as it's smallest part." Take that into some consideration.
And who doesn't want an after market exhaust sound?
Hope this might help just a bit...
Check out my profile for my exhaust, sounds good and performs well too.
one things....cars dont need backpressure.
cars need high exhaust velocity for optimal hp and torque.
too big gives gasses time to expand and cool down, aka... slow down. hence the reason shooting a bullet out of a cannon would be pointless, theres not enough velocity to fire one.
Quote:
actually thinking of a straw, you can blow more out of 2 slightly smaller straws than 1 slightly bigger if the 2 smaller straws have the same or larger internal size as the 1. As for the choosing the size I posted, I was just guessing that the 2 pipes added to gether would give you 2.5 or 3, 3 mabye being prefered to allow the air to be more free flowing after dividing it.
depends.... take 2 inches as the start level, then +.5 inches, and -.5 inches from the starting point. granted if you have two 1.5 inch straws, and one 2.5 straw, then its around 3 inches vs 2.5.... however the amount of exhaust being let out is still the same. duals would actually slow you down with the weight and exhaust flow. most here drive 4 cylinders. our displacement is around 2 -2.5
most 6-8 cylinders that require dual exhaust displace around 2-3 times as much as we do.
they have a need for duals, we dont. keep in mind stock is 1.47 inches inside on avg.
free flow is good, but to large and like said above, its like shooting a bullet out of a cannon. you might as well be constipated.
We can always count on you!
But I thought we needed some backpressure? I guess I've been reading mixed messages on here. O well
I know over a dozen mechanics that will disagree with you on needing backpressure, several of which teach mechanics as a job. I myself do not know or understand one way or the other if we do. As for gas velocity, you would be able to keep a higher velocity using 2 smaller pipes that do not reduce quantity(I know it's not the best way to put it, but I can't think of the right word atm) of flow, but keep a smaller diameter and prevent the cooling effect you mention with too large a pipe.
Eric Esler wrote:I know over a dozen mechanics that will disagree with you on needing backpressure, several of which teach mechanics as a job. I myself do not know or understand one way or the other if we do. As for gas velocity, you would be able to keep a higher velocity using 2 smaller pipes that do not reduce quantity(I know it's not the best way to put it, but I can't think of the right word atm) of flow, but keep a smaller diameter and prevent the cooling effect you mention with too large a pipe.
and i can find a dozen mechanics on here and local that will suggest ebay chips, jet performance crap modules and tell you that you NEED an alignment kit whenever you lower the car.
one fact of exhausts, is all cars will have backpressure. almost impossible to have a perfect system. in the least 1-3 psi will occur on a free flowing system i believe is the avg. a stock system can be up to 18+
using two smaller pipes is really a waste from an efficiency standpoint.. looks good for some, i agree, but on a need basis, not needed.. quantity isnt exactly better than quality. running two pipes when one pipe can do the job. in the corporate world, downsizing would occur. you dont need two people in one position when one is effective. having two of something is basically a waste and more or less, lesser efficiency. unless someone is running some decent boost, the engine only has 134-146 CID. which isnt much. but decent.
so having two of something when one does the job perfectly, is just for show or bragging, hey i got two things that do the same thing as your one pipe. in the case of the job analogy, you actually lose money paying two people to do the same thing. in the case of the exhaust for most duals, if you split it at the end, you should run the larger diam pipe through the main frame, then at the y pipe, drop it in size pretty decently, to keep velocity up. if not, using same size pipe, slows it dont considerably.
you can treat exhaust gas like blood pressure. if it ever goes through an area thats too large, pressure pushing it through drops. and hence the blood flow would slow as well. stagnation a bit.
i tend to trust the research of exhaust companies and places like lingenfelter performance, over most local mechanics. most even who teach it also know, tell people something.... even if its not exactly true, to make a sale.
magnaflow article
Quote:
BACKPRESSURE = TORQUE?
An old hot-rodder's tall tale: Engines need some backpressure to work properly and make torque. That is not true. What engines need is low backpressure, but high exhaust stream velocity. A fast-moving but free-flowing gas column in the exhaust helps create a rarefaction or a negative pressure wave behind the exhaust valve as it opens. This vacuum helps scavenge the cylinder of exhaust gas faster and more thoroughly with less pumping losses. An exhaust pipe that is too big in diameter has low backpressure but lower velocity. The low velocity reduces the effectiveness of this scavenging effect, which has the greatest impact on low-end torque.
Low backpressure and high exhaust stream velocity can be achieved by running straight-through free-flowing mufflers and small pipe diameters. The only two exceptions to this are turbocharged engines and engines optimized for large amounts of nitrous oxide. Both of these devices vastly increase the exhaust gas volume and simply need larger pipes to get rid of it all.
http://magnaflow.com/05news/magazine/05sportc.asp
and two other books i;ve gone through that i suggest.
http://www.lingenfelter.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=BK-G309&Category_Code=P03
http://www.lingenfelter.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=BK-HP1245&Category_Code=P03
they all three cover exhaust, exhaust pulse, and velocity vs no velocity.
if you;re up to starting an automotive book collection these will def be a good start in this area.
Quote:
so having two of something when one does the job perfectly, is just for show or bragging, hey i got two things that do the same thing as your one pipe. in the case of the job analogy, you actually lose money paying two people to do the same thing. in the case of the exhaust for most duals, if you split it at the end, you should run the larger diam pipe through the main frame, then at the y pipe, drop it in size pretty decently, to keep velocity up. if not, using same size pipe, slows it dont considerably.
O.k I know larger piping does not nessersarly means better. As many exhaust shops says.
But here is my thing, I am running a GM S/C on the 2.4L S/F GT and in this month I will be putting in a cat-back. I want to follow the same set up as the stock set-up, but go 2.5in all around.
I will be using a Dynomax 20in muffler as the main and 14in as the secondary with a 24in glasspack. Similar to stock.
My question is, what do you say about continuing the use 2.5in after the splitter? What is your take?
Oh and I am very open to suggestions and will take action on suggestions (IF) it makes sense.
>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
I know a SFGT exhaust WILL NOT bolt right up to Cav, that's for sure. As far as another SF goes, sorry, I can't tell ya.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/gutty96/dc0d16be.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
**there is only one true love in my life... and my girlfriend has learned to live with it**
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:Quote:
so having two of something when one does the job perfectly, is just for show or bragging, hey i got two things that do the same thing as your one pipe. in the case of the job analogy, you actually lose money paying two people to do the same thing. in the case of the exhaust for most duals, if you split it at the end, you should run the larger diam pipe through the main frame, then at the y pipe, drop it in size pretty decently, to keep velocity up. if not, using same size pipe, slows it dont considerably.
O.k I know larger piping does not nessersarly means better. As many exhaust shops says.
But here is my thing, I am running a GM S/C on the 2.4L S/F GT and in this month I will be putting in a cat-back. I want to follow the same set up as the stock set-up, but go 2.5in all around.
I will be using a Dynomax 20in muffler as the main and 14in as the secondary with a 24in glasspack. Similar to stock.
My question is, what do you say about continuing the use 2.5in after the splitter? What is your take?
Oh and I am very open to suggestions and will take action on suggestions (IF) it makes sense.
Anyone?
I did not want to make seperate thread on this.
>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:Quote:
so having two of something when one does the job perfectly, is just for show or bragging, hey i got two things that do the same thing as your one pipe. in the case of the job analogy, you actually lose money paying two people to do the same thing. in the case of the exhaust for most duals, if you split it at the end, you should run the larger diam pipe through the main frame, then at the y pipe, drop it in size pretty decently, to keep velocity up. if not, using same size pipe, slows it dont considerably.
O.k I know larger piping does not nessersarly means better. As many exhaust shops says.
But here is my thing, I am running a GM S/C on the 2.4L S/F GT and in this month I will be putting in a cat-back. I want to follow the same set up as the stock set-up, but go 2.5in all around.
I will be using a Dynomax 20in muffler as the main and 14in as the secondary with a 24in glasspack. Similar to stock.
My question is, what do you say about continuing the use 2.5in after the splitter? What is your take?
Oh and I am very open to suggestions and will take action on suggestions (IF) it makes sense.
with a supercharger, you should be fine doing so, as forced induction is usually the exception with velocity. you cram way more air into the engine, so velocity will rarely be a problem. the higher the compression, the faster exhaust gas comes out, so exhaust pulse is still important, but you can benefit from larger pipes due to the fact you have way more air goin in and out.
