ok well i spun my #3 rod bearing....

This is my first dealing with this sort of thing... here is a photo of the bottom of the rod and the bearing....

do you think the rod is ok to re-use? and just put a new bearing in there and go? or is the rod shot?



here is a photo of the crank... same deal... does this look like it is ok? or am i going to need to get these machined or replaced?



the rod and crank feel smooth to the touch as i run my finger around it rotationally... i can MAYBE feel slight imperfections if i run my finger from side to side.... i dont know if these need to have a mirror finish, or what...

please let me know if it is worth putting a new set of bearings in here, or if you think i will just be back here ro-doing the job again in a few weeks/months if i do...

is there anything i can do short of machining? anything i can do myself with it still in the car?

Let me know what i should do... i am at the point where i can either slap new bearings back in, or keep tearing it apart and shopping for replacements or machine shops.

here is another pic of the crank.

It's toast. You'll have to go ahead and pull the motor all apart. You'll probably find that the other bearings are starting to look the same way. The shavings will travel with the oil and start destroying all in thier path.

You can get the rod resized (machine shop will know how). You can get the crank turned undersized and have the machine shop order oversize bearings.

You'll probably want to make sure the oil passages are all cleaned/flushed out in the block/head/balance shaft assy. just to make sure you don't just push crap right back into a good crank/bearing.





"The FACTS are always subject to CHANGE once the TRUTH is applied"
"In the entire history of man the only stupid questions are the ones that don't get asked"

The rod can be machined smooth, but it has to be removed from the engine.

As for the crank. You might be able to get away with polishing it with some emery cloth. I usually use my fingernail to feel for imperfections(going from side to side). Be careful not to take too much material off the crank, cuz then you'll mess up the oil clearance.

ouch, yeah... i pulled the other 3 just to see what a "good one" looks like.... and needless to say... I didnt find anything "good"
the others are in better shape... but still all have signs of wear.

Ok... now comes the big question.... cost of repair versus replacement....

I have been wanting to go with H-beam rods for a while now.... i know they are $$$... but what is the typical cost of machining all my rods and crank. Am i better off just using this as an opportunity to go with the new parts?

I have to imagine grinding down good metal and replacing it with bigger (soft) bearings has to weaken things a lil....

I would almost rather spend a lil more and get good stronger new stuff....

but if i can get all the machine work done for a couple hundred... then that might be worth it....

what do you think it would cost to "fix" so i could compare that to the cost of replacement/upgrades...

I spent around $400 to get my Pontiac 400 done. I had it bored .030, rods resized, crank turned(spun #7 rod bearing), cam bearings installed, pistions installed on the rods, and i believe my heads rebuilt with stock parts. This was a few years ago, so i dont remember exactly. When i get home i can get the exact amount it cost me, but i do believe it was around $400.

Seriously,you'd be better off replacing the pistons with forged and keeping the stock rods. The stock rods have been known to hold in the 275-300hp range (they are "press forged"). The pistons are the weak point in this combination.

But that means at the very least pulling the block all the way down and getting the bore checked and honed (if it will clean up) and ordering stock size pistons.

You can probably get the rod resized for about $30. A crank kit (reground crank and bearings) from Autozone/O'Riley is probably in the $185 + core charge (refundable) range.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, April 16, 2008 12:32 PM


"The FACTS are always subject to CHANGE once the TRUTH is applied"
"In the entire history of man the only stupid questions are the ones that don't get asked"

how about oiling system?

is there something better than stock that doesnt require all the work of a 2.3 pump swap?

if your taking it apart might as well do the rods as well. I'd try a used eco and swap it in while your at it if your intentions are big numbers and performance.


-Chris

You can try the Melling replacement pump. Some have said it moves more volume than the stock although as far as I know it hasn't been proven.





"The FACTS are always subject to CHANGE once the TRUTH is applied"
"In the entire history of man the only stupid questions are the ones that don't get asked"

I just checked my records, all the work i mentioned before that got done to my Pontiac 400 cost me $580.

More than likely you can get the crank either polished or turned, rod can be re-sized. I did a rebuild on a 2.4 for right at $1000.00, but that was using stock pistons, rods, cams, replacing all gaskets, oil pump, water pump, have the crank polished, rods re-sized, block hot tank. This was doing all the assembly work my-self. You can get a good runing 2.4 for about $900. For the mods you have you would be better off getting aftermarket pistons, rods, have some machin work done to increase oiling. All of this will cost more.



FU Tuning

Well i am told that the stock crank is plenty strong for whatever power you put out....

I would like to get some better oiling.... considered the 2.3L oil pump swap... but that is alot of work... this is my Daily driver so i really cant have her down for too long...

i would like to avoid pulling the engine if at all possible at this point...

I assume i can drop the crank with the block still in the car...

maybe get the crank machined.....then get new rods and bearings...


what exactly do forged pistons and H-beam rods give you? just less chance of breakage?

ken soggs wrote:
i would like to avoid pulling the engine if at all possible at this point...

I assume i can drop the crank with the block still in the car...

maybe get the crank machined.....then get new rods and bearings...

You are going to waste more time "trying" to do that than you would if you pulled the block and did it the right way.. To top that you need to get the block cleaned to get all the drebis out.... Don't be lazy, do it right...



P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

^ What he said. ^

Plus,if I remember some of your other posts right you've got 90k+miles on this motor. Your not going to just throw in new pistons and rings and get any kind of good ring seal. I can guarantee the bores are tapered.

If you decide to do it right get the pistons BEFORE you have them bore and hone the block so they can measure and machine the right way. I've seen far to many people here have the block bored .020/.040 over and then order pistons and find out things aren't right when they try to put it together.

Have the crank/rods/pistons/flywheel (or flexplate on an auto)/and front pulley (if your not using the stocker) all balanced as a unit.

If you do all the assembly work yourself it should be able to be done for less then $1300. And you'll have a good engine. If you go the extra 37ft. and do the 2.3 oil pump you'll have a Really Good engine. (IF) you do a good job on the assembly work.





"The FACTS are always subject to CHANGE once the TRUTH is applied"
"In the entire history of man the only stupid questions are the ones that don't get asked"

john317(AKA Gary the Old guy) wrote:If you decide to do it right get the pistons BEFORE you have them bore and hone the block so they can measure and machine the right way. I've seen far to many people here have the block bored .020/.040 over and then order pistons and find out things aren't right when they try to put it together.

I have always ordered the pistons and bearings after getting my work done. Cuz if you ordered .020 over pistons and they have to take it to .040 over, your stuck with pistons you cant use. Same with bearings.

don't mean to TJ, but since we're in the same boat there is no use starting a new thread to ask the same questions...

anyone know how much it would be to get the crank resized/reground? and what would be the best way to flush the oil passages?

ps, nice macros ken!





Anyone have a used up 96-97 2.2l engine near the UP? I need a crankshaft!