ok i have narrarowd down to a problem.

how do you set the timing on the cam with the crank??? i just put a new head on and timing set and i can't get any compression. i am not sure what the problem is but i am sure the cam isn't in right time??? if someone could please help me with this asap i would appreciate it i want this car out of my garage

am i the only one here???? i really need some help guys i have been messing with this car for 4 straight days and no results. i really really really need help so if someone can help i would greatly appreciate it.

Update..........

Now the car will turn over but just backfires and smoke alot but does not start? can someone tell me what the firing order is and wire placement on the coilpack???? Am I 180 degrees off???? It is doing more than it was before.

Still i think i am the only one here..........................IS ANYONE OUT THERE?

I see from your profile you appear to be asking about the 96 sunfire - Yes? But it also helps if we know what engine it has in it? 2.2, 2.4? More specifics please, in the first post you say no compression. Is this still the case, and is it on all 4 cylinders? If there is no compression then you should not be trying to make it run, the compression issue need to be fixed first. If your compression is normal on all 4, then backfiring after a rebuild is often a symptom of crossed ignition wires. To sort that out engine type is good to know, as the coils are situated differently between the 2.

Yes it's a 96 no its not a sunfire but cavalier but that doesnt matter. The engine is a 2.2 ohv. It's not a rebuild i put a new head, gasket set, timing set on. I was told by my uncle (ase master 20 years) that i have a problem with the cam timing not allowing it to build compression due to lifters being open. First go roung i had nothing from the engine wouldnt fire wouldnt backfire nothing.
Now i am getting backfire and flames coming out of throttle body and smoke coming from around the front main seal.

so what did you change between it firing and not?
what were you using to check compression? were all the cylinders zero?

I am using a compression tester. no 2 and 3 were reading only 30psi 1 and 4 zero.

Chris, there is a sprocket on the camshaft with an indention on one of the teeth, likewise a similar
marking between two of the teeth on the crankshaft sprocket....

These must be aligned, and you have to imagine that they are going to mesh (which they don't)
but this is called the alignment....

Re-install that timing chain accordingly....

Let's hope this is all of the problems...

ok well i redid everything and there is NO possible way that i can have it on wrong. The engine cranks and backfires when i have at WOT and than throws flames out the intake manifold. i checked the timing marks and the line up perfectly on the tabs on the tensioner. I am really at my wits end on this. So i have no ideas left.

[The engine cranks and backfires when i have at WOT and than throws flames out the intake manifold.]

Sorry to say, but the timing has GOT to be wrong!

Also, are you sure you have not bent a valve or two


[i checked the timing marks and the line up perfectly on the tabs on the tensioner.] TENSIONER!!

Surely not the TENSIONER, it should be the camshaft and two of the teeth on the crankshaft sprocket....]

As Leland said:-
[Chris, there is a sprocket on the camshaft with an indention on one of the teeth, likewise a similar
marking between two of the teeth on the crankshaft sprocket....]


Alont

Chris, You're correct about the timing marks on the tensioner. All 4 marks must align perfectly on every 2nd revolution. Sounds like you have checked that out OK. If you still have low/no compression then there must be a problem with rings (that you indicate are good), or with the head , gasket or valves not closing. You say you put on a new head, and replaced pushrods - are you 100% sure they are correct parts? Try turning the engine slowly by hand (with a socket on the crank and listen carefully at the head as each cylinder comes up on compression and see if you can hear a compression leak. Try to pinpoint the location of leaks. Are you absolutely 1--% sure the ignition leads are on correctly. As I mentioned previously to you - When I rebuilt my 2nd one, I was very carefull to mark the leads at both ends, and somehow still managed to cross 2 of them and got sputters and backfires when trying to start the 2st time. It took 2 of us, one under the car, and one on top to disconnect them 1 by one to locate the cross pair. Is your replacement head new or used?

Ok i am very frustrated at this point. If i sound a bit rude or like a a$$ i am sorry. The engine ran before i did all this so i don't see anything can be wrong with the rings. The head is brandnew casting(fixed flaws from original heads) new valves, new headbolts(felpro) new headgasket(felpro) new timing set(unsure of brand) , new pushrods(unsure brand) i am sure everything is correct matched up new parts with old parts. i did have the plug wires on wrong but with you last post i was able to fix that. it still will not start? i turned the engine by hand every time before attempting to start so i did not bend any valves. I don't hear any compression leaks. it only backfires when i block the throttle open. could the camshaft sensor be bad??? would a dead battery cause this? i really am confused cause i have done all this on a differant engine and had 0 problems. i check to see if the valves are shut on the number one cylinder on the compression stroke and they are. Am I 180 out still?

Chris, many times I've seen new valve guides installed improperly....

They're not pounded into the head deap enough....

And they will slightly hold valves from making a complete seal against the seat....

You have to remove the head, turn it upside down, pour a little kerosene (or similar)
into each cylinder cavity and it will be apparent if this is happening...

Sorry you're not getting anywhere. Dead or low battery would not manifest itself like you are seeing. It is possible that you have git a bad connection to cam or crank sensor. And of course as you know they are also very difficult to check with the engine in the car, but pull the connectors back off - look carefully (use a mech's mirror as necessary) and look for bent pins on the sensors. This did happen to me once also. Luckily it did not break the pin and I was able to very carefully straighten it and get running again. But before all this is compression still your problem?

Are you still getting 0 compression on 1 & 4, and 30 on 2 & 3? If this is the case, this must be fixed before the car will even try to start or run. With no compression you will just be pushing all the fuel out of the cylinder on the compression stroke. The compression is escaping somewhere and you have got to find out where. As you say, unlikely to have broken rings on all 4 cylinders. Also unlikely to have a cracked block at both ends during rebuild if it was good before. Just go over everything logically. Compression is built between the piston rings along with the cylinder walls, and the head. Head seal comprises of the head gasket, the head itself, and the valves - being fully closed - thus effected by valve guides, lifters, push rods, rockers and the cam itself. It might also be worth checking with your parts source and make sure the head you got (which obviously physically fits) is the correct application for your car again. Correct cam and lift, etc. Just ask them to double check the part number they sold you against what you really got. If you don't hear any air leak when hand cranking the engine with a socket/wrench, then the leaks must be fairly large. Not like a crack or bad gasket allowing a small leak, but more like valves not fully closed. If you are absolutely sure everything is together correctly with the timing marks and the valve train, I would be thinking that somehow your new head is wrong, or not built correctly.

Remember - never mind the backfire (yet) - you have to have compression first.

i have thought of the wrong head and have not yet called the parts store to check. i talked to my uncle (ase mech) said that as long as i am getting backfires that i am getting compression and spark and fuel. i do not hear any leaks when i turn the engine by hand with the plugs in. it's very difficult to turn by hand while the plugs are in. is there a way that i could still be 180 off??? is that possible with these engines??? i checked all connections on the plugs and everything seems fine. i did not rebuild the whole engine the block is still factory build. i have checked to see if the valves are close on the compression stroke and they apear to be. thank you for your suggestions as i am trying them each time you reply.

OK i am getting somewhere. I checked all part numbers and they all matched to what i need. i got it to fire! for some reason if i don't torq the rocker arms down to spec and losen them 1 full turn everything is dandy. Now my question is i can't leave it like this? why is this the reason??? please someone give me some insight on this on what to do

ok here is my delma now. I get a reading of 90psi on all 4 cylinders. thats better than what i had been getting but still i don't think thats enough. the engine sounds much better now when cranking it other. still will not start. i am starting to believe that there is something wrong with the head. it's a brand new head but i still don't think the valves are fully closing when the need to. this really sucks i am getting so far but still so long to go. i just want this to run but now i am at a stand still till i can talk to the parts store that i purchased the parts from. anyone have anymore ideals of what could be wrong this time??

i am leaning towards the valve guides ideal.

Maybe the pushrods are a little too long? Are the pushrods seated properly in the lifters and rocker arms? Or the new head is milled down too much?

the head is brand new not a reman

are your valve springs binding?

i am not sure the head is back at the machine shop so hopefully they can find the problem and i can get it done tomarrow.

well the head is back in my possesion and the machine shop said that there is nothing wrong with it. so i still don't know whats going on now.

Chris, I can understand your disappointment !

The least that you can do is take the head to a second shop for a "second opinion".....

As someone pointed out, the wrong valve springs might have been installed, keeping valves from closing....

Whatever you find that's been causing all these problems, we hope you find the answers soon !

Well I highly trust the machine shop that checked it out. The guy is the best around and he did a leak down test and all the required tests. I know he is only human and they make mistakes but if he did the test he did the tests. he told me to just keep working on the timing. i still don't understand why i have to loosen the rocker nuts one full turn for me to get any results? i guess i will just keep working on the timing till i get it right.