Quote:
From Russia, without love: U.S. will collapse
MOSCOW -- If you're inclined to believe Igor Panarin, and the Kremlin wouldn't mind if you did, then President Barack Obama will order martial law this year, the U.S. will split into six rump-states before 2011, and Russia and China will become the backbones of a new world order.
Panarin might be easy to ignore but for the fact that he is a dean at the Foreign Ministry's school for future diplomats and a regular on Russia's state-guided TV channels. And his predictions fit into the anti-American story line of the Kremlin leadership.
"There is a high probability that the collapse of the United States will occur by 2010," Panarin told dozens of students, professors and diplomats Tuesday at the Diplomatic Academy -- a lecture the ministry pointedly invited the Associated Press and other foreign media to attend.
The prediction from Panarin, a former spokesman for Russia's Federal Space Agency and reportedly an ex-KGB analyst, meshes with the negative view of the U.S. that has been flowing from the Kremlin in recent years, in particular from Vladimir Putin.
Putin, the former president who is now prime minister, has likened the United States to Nazi Germany's Third Reich and blames Washington for the global financial crisis that has pounded the Russian economy.
Panarin didn't give many specifics on what underlies his analysis, mostly citing newspapers, magazines and other open sources.
He also noted he had been predicting the demise of the world's wealthiest country for more than a decade now.
But he said the recent economic turmoil in the U.S. and other "social and cultural phenomena" led him to nail down a specific timeframe for "The End" -- when the United States will break up into six autonomous regions and Alaska will revert to Russian control.
Panarin argued that Americans are in moral decline, saying their great psychological stress is evident from school shootings, the size of the prison population and the number of gay men.
Turning to economic woes, he cited the slide in major stock indexes, the decline in U.S. gross domestic product and Washington's bailout of banking giant Citigroup as evidence that American dominance of global markets has collapsed.
"I was there recently and things are far from good," he said. "What's happened is the collapse of the American dream."
Panarin insisted he didn't wish for a U.S. collapse, but he predicted Russia and China would emerge from the economic turmoil stronger and said the two nations should work together, even to create a new currency to replace the U.S. dollar.
Asked for comment on how the Foreign Ministry views Panarin's theories, a spokesman said all questions had to be submitted in writing and no answers were likely before today.
It wasn't clear how persuasive the 20-minute lecture was. One instructor asked Panarin whether his predictions more accurately describe Russia, which is undergoing its worst economic crisis in a decade as well as a demographic collapse that has led some scholars to predict the country's demise.
Panarin dismissed that idea: "The collapse of Russia will not occur."
But Alexei Malashenko, a scholar-in-residence at the Carnegie Moscow Center who did not attend the lecture, sided with the skeptical instructor, saying Russia is the country that is on the verge of disintegration.
"I can't imagine at all how the United States could ever fall apart," Malashenko told the AP.
“Please do not be cynical. I hate cynicism. Nobody gets in life exactly what they thought they were going to get. But if you work really hard, and you’re kind, amazing things will happen.” Conan O'Brien
Didn't read the entire thing but Russia and friends should never be used in a sentence.
Russian propaganda...what did you expect?
Citing an increase in school shootings (I'm sure these NEVER happen in Russia), the prison population (we could just kill them all...cough...Russia...cough), and the number of gay men (gay women are okay though lol)... lame
All questions must be submitted in writing ahead of time... lame.
At least his 'colleagues' are calling him out on it.
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
OHV notec wrote:Russian propaganda...what did you expect?
Citing an increase in school shootings (I'm sure these NEVER happen in Russia), the prison population (we could just kill them all...cough...Russia...cough), and the number of gay men (gay women are okay though lol)... lame
All questions must be submitted in writing ahead of time... lame.
At least his 'colleagues' are calling him out on it.
Questions need to be submitted ahead of time so they can draft up some form of counter-propaganda. And his colleagues calling him out will most likely be killed or silenced, it they haven't already.
J03Y wrote:OHV notec wrote:Russian propaganda...what did you expect?
Citing an increase in school shootings (I'm sure these NEVER happen in Russia), the prison population (we could just kill them all...cough...Russia...cough), and the number of gay men (gay women are okay though lol)... lame
All questions must be submitted in writing ahead of time... lame.
At least his 'colleagues' are calling him out on it.
Questions need to be submitted ahead of time so they can draft up some form of counter-propaganda. And his colleagues calling him out will most likely be killed or silenced, it they haven't already.
Agreed He is going to feel awfully stupid here in 2010 when the US has not crumbled.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
Wade Jarvis wrote:J03Y wrote:OHV notec wrote:Russian propaganda...what did you expect?
Citing an increase in school shootings (I'm sure these NEVER happen in Russia), the prison population (we could just kill them all...cough...Russia...cough), and the number of gay men (gay women are okay though lol)... lame
All questions must be submitted in writing ahead of time... lame.
At least his 'colleagues' are calling him out on it.
Questions need to be submitted ahead of time so they can draft up some form of counter-propaganda. And his colleagues calling him out will most likely be killed or silenced, it they haven't already.
Agreed He is going to feel awfully stupid here in 2010 when the US has not crumbled.
how comical would it be if Russia collapses first as they predict
the russians have never been our friends, even when we fought on the same side in the world wars.
Russia will collapse long before this country does, China on the other hand, I'd already say they are the most powerful nation in the world. They have the most money, they make everything so they are self sufficient, which is something this country used to have until poor foreign trade policies wore it all away, nothing is made here anymore, even our defense contracts are outsourced to other nations. If that isn't a threat to national security I dont know what is.
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Ummm most weapons and especially our heavy weapons are still made here. In fact most of the F-22 raptor is built in my hometown. China is rich only due to the fact that the government takes most of the people's money. If they lost trade they would soon falter.
I accidentally the SHIFT LIGHT!!!!!!!!!!
The proper way of using the word seen. It is not I seen it that would be I saw it. He has seen the car is the right way to use the word. English class is Cool. By the way thats my sig
Rodimus Prime wrote:Russia will collapse long before this country does, China on the other hand, I'd already say they are the most powerful nation in the world. They have the most money, they make everything so they are self sufficient, which is something this country used to have until poor foreign trade policies wore it all away, nothing is made here anymore, even our defense contracts are outsourced to other nations. If that isn't a threat to national security I dont know what is.
China is doing well now, no doubt, but I don't see it lasting. All they're wealth comes from making cheap products to export using cheap labor and not worrying about environmental issues. The rest of the world will slowly make them comply with the standards of the rest of the world, better wages and working conditions and better environmental controls. This will definitely slow down their current rate of growth, the only question is by how much. Personally, I think that they will be hurt fairly bad by all of these. The U.S. should really be taking the lead in forcing China to get with the rest of the civilized world but our government doesn't want to act to quickly because that will hurt some businesses who depend on the cheap labor. In government money talks and those businesses have much more money then we do so they can "convince" our elected officials to hold off as long as possible.
China is I believe the only nation with enough guts to potentially invade this nation at some point. Something that should disturb all of you to think about....they can send an army of 1 million people here everyday for almost 3 years straight and still have a larger population if every single one of them died. We are severely outnumbered. Even if every single citizen owns guns in this country put together its hard being outnumbered 5 to 1. Russia never had an advantage like that, they also never had the type of economic power that China has. True military power comes from economic power. They can buy as much of anyone or anything as they want. Oh yea they got nukes too.
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
First off that is a childish idea. China has no good reason to invade us. In doing so Hell would rain down on them from the rest of the world. Second of all we have one of the best and most well trained militaries in the world. As well they do not have the fire power that we do.They could send 1 million people over here and before those guys got 1 mile inland we could fire bomb 10 million over there. If it came to a bigger battle of nuclear power. Think about this one Ohio class nuclear combat submarine carries 128 nuclear warheads. I am sure the fallout would deal with at least a quarter or more of China. If you think about it a war would be a great idea our companies and others from around the world would pull out restructure over years and come back to their own, as well it would drive the economy up in having to produce weapons and other supplies. China would go dry with their money because they would no longer have outside resources they would be forced to comply to world regulations after they lost and become the world's bitch like they should be.
Wars do more than kill and show a country's might then can stimulate it make it and its people stronger and even reshape it to be better.
Just remember it takes a whole lot of man power to beat fire power.
I accidentally the SHIFT LIGHT!!!!!!!!!!
The proper way of using the word seen. It is not I seen it that would be I saw it. He has seen the car is the right way to use the word. English class is Cool. By the way thats my sig
Rodimus Prime wrote:China is I believe the only nation with enough guts to potentially invade this nation at some point. Something that should disturb all of you to think about....they can send an army of 1 million people here everyday for almost 3 years straight and still have a larger population if every single one of them died. We are severely outnumbered. Even if every single citizen owns guns in this country put together its hard being outnumbered 5 to 1. Russia never had an advantage like that, they also never had the type of economic power that China has. True military power comes from economic power. They can buy as much of anyone or anything as they want. Oh yea they got nukes too.
yeah, like M1 said, china may have us outnumbered, but it would be impossible for them to actually GET here. we could launch any number of smart bombs to any ship carrying them to our coast, killing them in the water before they get here. the problem we will face is an economic one. china already owns more of our debt than any country. but on the flip side, we also buy more stuff from them than any other country. so really.....they dont have a reason to attack us. yet.
Its actually quite simple why China would have a military reason to attack another country. Land, they don't have enough of it and they have alot of money, if you read any world history at all nearly ever major war that has ever been fought since the stone age, its always been about land or religion. History has shown time and time again that when a country increases population, money and military power, wars are fought, its a never ending cycle.
Rest of the world? When has the rest of the world ever helped us? Britain, Canada, Australia thats about all you can count on coming to our defense. You can bet your ass Japan and Israel wouldn't lift a finger to help. SO why isn't the Iraq war helping the economy, its just making it worse? Even the best gun doesn't always overcome 5 or 6 to 1 odds. You have to consider the money factor, they have enough money to buy as many weapons as they want and Russia as weak as it is financially would not hesitate for a second to sell off their entire arsenal to the Chinese. Theres no way this country could afford to finance a large scale war. Look at the damage the Iraq war is doing to money supply and thats just a bunch of kids strapped with explosives to themselves, not trained soldiers.
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Rodimus Prime wrote:Its actually quite simple why China would have a military reason to attack another country. Land, they don't have enough of it and they have alot of money, if you read any world history at all nearly ever major war that has ever been fought since the stone age, its always been about land or religion. History has shown time and time again that when a country increases population, money and military power, wars are fought, its a never ending cycle.
Rest of the world? When has the rest of the world ever helped us? Britain, Canada, Australia thats about all you can count on coming to our defense. You can bet your ass Japan and Israel wouldn't lift a finger to help. SO why isn't the Iraq war helping the economy, its just making it worse? Even the best gun doesn't always overcome 5 or 6 to 1 odds. You have to consider the money factor, they have enough money to buy as many weapons as they want and Russia as weak as it is financially would not hesitate for a second to sell off their entire arsenal to the Chinese. Theres no way this country could afford to finance a large scale war. Look at the damage the Iraq war is doing to money supply and thats just a bunch of kids strapped with explosives to themselves, not trained soldiers.
dude, you seriously need to self-ban from any political conversation.
Rodimus Prime wrote:Its actually quite simple why China would have a military reason to attack another country. Land, they don't have enough of it and they have alot of money, if you read any world history at all nearly ever major war that has ever been fought since the stone age, its always been about land or religion. History has shown time and time again that when a country increases population, money and military power, wars are fought, its a never ending cycle.
By that reasoning, the expediant thing for China to do would be to attack Russia. It's closer and bigger.
“Please do not be cynical. I hate cynicism. Nobody gets in life exactly what they thought they were going to get. But if you work really hard, and you’re kind, amazing things will happen.” Conan O'Brien
Rodimus Prime wrote:Its actually quite simple why China would have a military reason to attack another country. Land, they don't have enough of it and they have alot of money, if you read any world history at all nearly ever major war that has ever been fought since the stone age, its always been about land or religion. History has shown time and time again that when a country increases population, money and military power, wars are fought, its a never ending cycle.
Rest of the world? When has the rest of the world ever helped us? Britain, Canada, Australia thats about all you can count on coming to our defense. You can bet your ass Japan and Israel wouldn't lift a finger to help. SO why isn't the Iraq war helping the economy, its just making it worse? Even the best gun doesn't always overcome 5 or 6 to 1 odds. You have to consider the money factor, they have enough money to buy as many weapons as they want and Russia as weak as it is financially would not hesitate for a second to sell off their entire arsenal to the Chinese. Theres no way this country could afford to finance a large scale war. Look at the damage the Iraq war is doing to money supply and thats just a bunch of kids strapped with explosives to themselves, not trained soldiers.
joey is 100% correct--you really should stay out of any conversation that requires higher thinking.
ok, where to begin: no, not all wars are about land. thats not why we're in iraq, is it? what about the underlying causes of, say, wwi? or how about our own civil war? none of those were about land or religion. want more examples? i can go all day long....
and as much as the rest of the world hates us, they would hate china even more. so, yes, we would receive help if we were attacked--on our own land--by the chinese. and yes, israel sure as hell would help us. who do you think they would get all of their military firepower from? china? um, no.
and even if there ae 5-1 odds, we wouldnt be using guns against them. we have bombs, bombs, and more bombs. as i said above, a full scale invasion is implausible because we are protected by the pacific ocean. you know what that is, dont you? its the largest body of water on our planet. so the chinese could send ten thousand troop ships towards us and we could blast them out of the water before they even got to hawaii. plus, we still have the last resort fall back that is our nuclear stockpile. their billion or so people wont mean @!#$ when one bomb can kill a quarter million or more people. again, the war we will face against the chinese will be an economic one, not something fought with bullets or bombs.
Well in an economic war with the Chinese they are handing us our collective ass.
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
The problem with Russia lies in the fact that a good portion of their current govt is composed of former KGB and Soviet opperatives. I believe Putin is ex-KGB and he ran Russia. They haven't changed since 1929.
Rodimus Prime wrote:Well in an economic war with the Chinese they are handing us our collective ass.
um.........duh? do you have any more glaringly obvious statements to make today?
while we arent actually in an economic war, they are, and will continue, to kick our asses for a few simple reasons: they have a few billion extra people that they can use to produce cheap parts at a horribly cheap price. we will never overcome that fact because china will never catch up to the rest of the world as far as human rights and that sort of thing goes. so their workforce will always be disposable, giving them the advantage.
Until they run out of women to procreate with to create more workere. The one child law in China is screwing them. They have something like a 60-40 male to female percentage gap due to the one child law and most chinese men want boys to carry on their family name. And that gap is getting larger.
Im sure if the US treated their civilians as god awful as China we would be right up there with them economically.
TheSundownFire wrote:The problem with Russia lies in the fact that a good portion of their current govt is composed of former KGB and Soviet opperatives. I believe Putin is ex-KGB and he ran Russia. They haven't changed since 1929.
But, but...
Quote:
He's an honest, straightforward man who loves his country. He loves his family. We share a lot of values. I view him as a remarkable leader. I believe his leadership will serve Russia well. Russia and America have the opportunity to accomplish much together; we should seize it.
I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy. We had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul; a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country. And I appreciated so very much the frank dialogue. There was no kind of diplomatic chit-chat, trying to throw each other off balance. There was a straightforward dialogue. And that's the beginning of a very constructive relationship. I wouldn't have invited him to my ranch if I didn't trust him.
Those naive words from June 2001 where some of the earliest signs I noticed that we where in for a rough presidency. Well I suppose I saw several others before that, but this was pretty glaring...
He "seemed" straightforward. He was also an ex-spy who was trained to decieve for HIS country. He is devoted to making HIS country great and not supporting his former enemies.
