Well I was going to put this in performance forum, but I believe it will end up here. I have been looking into hyper grounding systems, and have mixed feelings. All the electrical engineer's at work are convinced that the whole concept if B.S., and there is no possible way it will add any horsepower to a vehicle.
I believe that it would help starting, throttle response, and all around better efficiency. I have seen a couple articles saying that they put it on the dyno and gained 5hp or so, but I am not convinced. I then read through countless forums, and most people say it will help... has anyone dynoed it? I would like to hear both sides of the argument if possible, and I figured I would just make one myself out of 4 gauge audio grounding cable, and nice soldered audio connectors.
All comments welcomed. I mean all. 
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
Actualy I think it will end up in performance. But different mags have done dyno tests on it and its supposed to give you 1 - 3 more horses if your electical system isn't that great to begin with. But those couple ponies don't justify the cost.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
If it shores up your electrical system, I don't see the harm.
You need grounding straps, and having better straps just means less chance of an open circuit gremlin crawling up and giving you grief.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
You would be eliminating all open ground loops as well correct.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
no
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Its too much cash for what it gives you. Its just not worth it. Run an extra ground wire from the firewall to the head then one from the head to the battery tray and bolt it to where the factory negative cable hooks up and it should do the same thing for a lot less cash.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
its a gimmick, regardless of what the company claims, its BS. this was gone over extensively in the Newbs forum. any basic understanding of electronics and Ohms law will prove this is BS.
Not going to help, but probably not going to hurt either
The more electricity your alternator is putting out the more countertorque it puts on the engine (basic generator theory), meaning it bogs your engine down more as current increases.
If it made a noticable increase, don't you think the manufacturers would put them on at the factory. They could certainly get the parts cheaper than we can buy them.
kyle 102565 wrote:its a gimmick, regardless of what the company claims, its BS. this was gone over extensively in the Newbs forum. any basic understanding of electronics and Ohms law will prove this is BS.
yep, i used to beleive the hype, till we started ohms law class in my college. now i know its bs. only helpful if your car was made by morons who used too small wire to begin with, which i don't think has happened to anyone here
You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan
(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
Well wouldn't the system benefit from the lower impedance of higher quality wire?
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
Yes and no. The lower impedence would help, but in order for you to notice the ground lines (original and replacement) would have to be very long. Impedence in wire is measured per foot (or whatever) and with the lengths of ground stap I have seen, there's no way you could even detect it with a standard multi-meter let alone a butt dyno. Only very very sensitive equipent could detect a change.
The big benefit (if there is one) would be that you gave the vehicle a good once over and refreshed the connections. My be noticable on an old car with badly corroded contacts.
PAX
go on ebay and get something like
this!!
go buy yourself some crimp ends and cut the wire yourself.
and you even get some free audio stuff with it.
otherwise your paying way to much fricken money!!!!!
Otherwise there are no true horsepower gains, but you probably won't get shocked when you step out of your car in the winter anymore....
-Chris
the biggest gains people have noticed is probably just because they replaced their nasty corroded wire with new ones, and assumed that stepping up to bigger wire made the difference.
study up on ohm's law a bit and you will see how it is bs and how they try to make you think its true
You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan
(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
That won't help... your clothes actually build up the static energy and you discharge it out of your body. Hold a key in your hand or something so the static will discharge through that, instead of your hand.
BTW, Learning a bit of Ohm's law (it's been a while), is fine, but there is a phenomena called "skin effect" that actually causes the charge (or signal) run on the outter most edge of a wire looking to ground out elsewhere. It's one of the reasons if you want to make sure you're getting a good electrical signal in, you fatten up the guage of the Positive Wire on the Alternator. Keep the signal in the wire, and you're not going to get in a situation with over amperage burning it out.
The wires won't give you 20 extra HP, but as I said, it'll shore up the electrical system, if by that, you get better performance because of a more stable electrical pathway, great, I've seen dyno's of these things when they first hit the market (about 4-5 years ago) and using correct grounding points, you gained at most 5hp/ 5lbsft TQ. However, the biggest gains were found because there was a big reduction in electrical noise from the engine, and that meant the programmable ECU's were getting more reliable data...
It's expensive, and it's not a power adder, but FWIW, I think it's worth the money if you're doing that much electrical work anyhow.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
BTW, Learning a bit of Ohm's law (it's been a while), is fine, but there is a phenomena called "skin effect" that actually causes the charge (or signal) run on the outter most edge of a wire looking to ground out elsewhere.
There is a such a thing as skin effect but it only applies to AC and usually isn't a concern until you reach high frequencies.
The part about "looking to ground out elsewhere sounds like you're talking about capacitance effect, but it also just applies to AC.
GAM )The Kilted One wrote:That won't help... your clothes actually build up the static energy and you discharge it out of your body. Hold a key in your hand or something so the static will discharge through that, instead of your hand.
yes, the shock you feel has absolutely nothing to do with the cars electrical system. I'm not sure what you mean about holding the key though, unless you use the key to touch something metal when you're getting out of your car.
I regards to the last one, Yes, that's what I meant
The first one, I told you it's been a while since I took electrical theory (11 years)
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Well I went out to my local Autozone and got 4 Starter wire kits, 2 14" 4 gauge kits, and 2 30" 4 gauge kits, and ran them as I thought would be best design. All I have to say is wow, car starts in at least 1/2 the time or less when its kinda warm. Head lights seem brighter as well. I convinced myself its a good idea with just the starter.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
-MD- Z24 wrote:Well I went out to my local Autozone and got 4 Starter wire kits, 2 14" 4 gauge kits, and 2 30" 4 gauge kits, and ran them as I thought would be best design. All I have to say is wow, car starts in at least 1/2 the time or less when its kinda warm. Head lights seem brighter as well. I convinced myself its a good idea with just the starter.
Ive been a firm believer in this, and always backed it, the self made way, none of the expensive stuff. And im always fighting people about it, they always cry BS. So was it?
Maybe $20 worth of wire, Most of which is 8 gauge, while my negitive from the battery is both 4 and 8 gauge, going to 2 different ground points. I have seen a differance, Though its not Raw HP or TQ. There is a differance, for the better. Brighter headlights, is a safety aspect. Easy startups, better fuel economy, and better bass, is a Preferance.
I think before you can call something BS, You should atleast try it, once in your life. Just because something is a LAW of Science, doesnt mean its always correct. There have been many LAWS of science in the past, that later have been proven inaccurate in ALL points, Or just need to be rewriten, to accepts its other known lesser properties.
IM NOT SAYING OHMS LAW IS WRONG, but hypergrounding is not BS if you try it.
http://members.rankmyride.com/djtorello
Well, a Scientific Law is reprovable, and will equate into a mathematical equation, and always will be re-provable.
I believe you're thinking about Theories.
But anyhow, a thicker guage wire will make it easier for the amperage, and voltage to be transmitted because of decreased resistance.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Well, a Scientific Law is reprovable, and will equate into a mathematical equation, and always will be re-provable.
I believe you're thinking about Theories.
But anyhow, a thicker guage wire will make it easier for the amperage, and voltage to be transmitted because of decreased resistance.
yes, a thicker wire will make the current increase due to the resistance decrease, but with only upgrading a few wires, the amount increased will be nominal, you'd have to upgrade almost every wire in the car to get a noticable gain, but you'd add so much weight you'd negate any performance increase.
basically its BS and does not work outside of the users mind, unless the car had wiring problems to begin with
You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan
(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
Even if it doesnt increase performance, its still worth doing because it makes your car run better. 50 or so bucks is pretty cheap for how much better your car works with it.
Quote:
If it made a noticable increase, don't you think the manufacturers would put them on at the factory.
Not on cavaliers because GM didnt give 2@!#$s how much power the Js have or how awesome they run. But on cars where they do care, say like the Evolution for instance, they do use them.
Well i'm not sure if I got any "performance increase", but my car starts and idles much better, so for about $20 it was well worth it to me.
It can't hurt.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
I've been kicking around the idea for a while, mostly because I have a 2.4. The ignition cover is rubber mounted to the head, with a little braided ground strap underneath ground to the head.
I can measure resistance between the ignition cover and the negative post of the battery. Maybe it's age or corrosion, but it's there on my meter. I haven't checked for continuity by the pcm, but suspect there will be loss there as well.
If I add extra ground wires and it doesn't show improvement, all I've lost is a few bucks and some time. But I've crossed one more thing off the list of potential issues.
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
