Alright, there was a huge discussion in OT on the sexiest guy thread, and i must say that the reaction i got from my tagline was al that i hoped for and then some.

Now, let me start by saying that if this turns into personal attacks against me based upon conjectures that cannot be proven based upon the words I use, i will know that your arguments, much like a sieve, won't hold water. To explain: If you think that because i used my tagline i'm a cold, heartless prick, well, that's fine. However, there is nothing in that tagline that can make any allusion to the company i keep on a Saturday night, so any comments about my sexuality will prove that you're grasping at straws for an argument.

However, I would like to address some points:

I do know people that were at Columbine, and agree with my stance--loud-mouthed chauvenistic white-trash went up against loners in trenchcoats, and got perforated.

Doesn't mean i condone, or agree with what happened. Also, it doesn't mean that i approve of what they did or support what they did. I simply stated an alliterative fact of what happened in what may be called a very black and off-color way (which frankly, i could give a rip if it was not in an easily-digestible form or not).

As i've said before, I don't agree, approve of, or would have done what had happened at Columbine. But, i do understand fully why they did what they did--even though i deplore the act in which they did. But, i don't feel anything is so sacred that it cannot be made fun of. As such, taking the tagline as alliteratve fact, no one that died at Columbine was fully innocent. While may not deserving of execution--if nothing else for the masses of seemingly "normal" people, it should serve as a warning; karma kicks back in ways that are more painful that a swift kick in the testicles, or for women, getting your breasts caught in a hydraulic press. Maybe if you take that lesson to heart: that constantly poking fun at people that are "different" could get you perforated (whether or not the act is justifiable), maybe it will make you think twice about doing it in the first place.

As such, I want to know why those that are fully against me making that tagline are against it--in words beyond "you're a faggot", and "I'd shoot you in the face if i'd ever meet you". I want to know why it upsets you and hits close to home. I want to know why it pisses you off. Because really, I think it preys on your own fear that you know in that situation, you wouldn't be innocent--i think you, like me (and I'm not ashamed to admit it despite having the guilt of knowing) are afraid that sometime in the past, or somewhere in the future, you might haze and have ridiculed someone else, and you realize that whether or not it's a death sentance, the object of your ridicule will empty a magazine into your body--and really, can you say you were "innocent" and "I was only having fun"? Nope. I think you all know deep down, like I do, you can't help but blame yourself for it, and because you had to be an @!#$, you're the one paying the butcher's bill.

Sucks, but welcome to the world we created.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

i don't normally get involved in disucssions such as this... but answer me this one question:

do you seriously think that everyone who was shot and killed that day made fun of those two kids?

cause i'd love to see your proof of that statement. i highly doubt that those students were all as guilty as you seem to believe they were. did a lot of them probably make fun of those two kids? probably, wouldn't surprise me in the least. but im also willing to bet that "innocent" blood was shed that day as well.

also, i'm not sure if this is entirely correct, and i'd have to go back and double check to make sure the wording is correct, but during the shooting, one of the boys is reported to have said something along the lines of "this is so much fun, it's what we always wanted to do".

if you ask me, the white trash was WEARING the trenchcoats.

You know what, I agree.

I used to make fun of people, then I grew up.

I'll still have a laugh at the expense of others, but not to the point of segregation. That's just a breeding ground for hatred and retaliation.

Those who have nothing to lose don't mind losing it.

You know what I find funny Keeper? Is how some people jump on the bandwagon after one person says he doesn't like your tagline. All of the sudden it's the "IN" thing to do . I like your tagline it makes a point, Don't keep @!#$ with people unless you want to get @!#$ worse.

Do i think each one of them did? i can't be sure. Nor do i think that the line they said was uttered--but i can't be sure.

However, as people have so often pointed out--the quote from the Boondock Saints: Indifference of good men is just as evil as evil men. Not the direct quote, but the meaning holds true. Plus you have to ask--even if they didn't directly do the ridiculing, did they laugh? Did they try to stop them? if not, it's is (at least in my opinion) still karmic points against you.

As for whether or not the white trash was wearing the trenchcoats, in all honesty in that situation, both sides were white trash, because IMHO the blood in on EVERYONE'S hands. Were they guilty enough to be killed? No. I already said that. No one deserves to die in those circumstances. Everyone in that case screwed up. The parents and teachers for not doing their jobs, those kids for letting their angst get the better of them, the stodents that ridiculed them for being complete pricks--the parents and teachers of those students for not doing their jobs, and the rest of the students for being indifferent or laughing at them.

The result: a lot of blood spilled and no one can take the full blame--everyone has blood on their hands. The degree is not that important.

Anyhow, the origin of my tagline, for those that remember, was debating FFVI vs FFVII--Cid vs. Setzer. It was explaining who i think would win between them.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Personally I don't care for the tagline at all..... but if i said sometihng KOTL might come to my house witha shotgun....


But why waste my time worrying about what KOTL thinks? Cause its basically pointless, its just the same as "sticks and stones can break my bones..."


Some people grew up in highschool and shrugged off what other people said as stupid, others brought guns to school and shot awhole bunch of people.....

Ok so there was physical abuse involved im sure... but both sides obvisouly had severe immaturity levels....

Spikej:

it's okay, everytime someone finds something about me that doesn't fit in with the way they think everyone should be, or, in more cases, what fits in with their idea of "normal", they make some crack at it, many people jump on that bacndwagon, a few come onto my side, i try to explain my stance, I try to maintain the dignity of the debate while some people on eaither side turn it into a barrage of insults.

I'm quite used to it right now. In many way, it's fun to look back and laugh.

Still, at least Cannon brought up some points in an intelligent way...right now i'm just waiting for the trolls...


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

I Disagree with almost everything Keeper had to say. I have a biased opinion since i was actually there and went to Columbine High School and live so close to the school that i can see it out my bedroom window as i type this. i knew alot of the people who died that day AND im really good friends with someone who was shot and survived the shooting, who was left paralized.

the only thing i agree with you on is that its not all eric and dylan's fault. BUT, the people who got killed are not at fault in the slightest. The blame goes to mostly eric and dylan but also to there parents. How horrible of parents do you have to be to not every step foot in your sons room or know whats going on in your own house? If you ask me, THEY were the white trash.

ill tell you why i dont agree with your statement "What happens when foul-mouthed chauvenistic white trash goes up against a loner in a trenchcoat? The White-trash gets perforated (see also: Columbine)."

ill break down the statement for you.

foul-mouthed? the members of the "trench coat mafia", as they called themselves, were just as, if not more, foul-mouthed as anyone else in that school. They used to practice sword fighting with there fake wooden swords and crap a few houses down from me almost every day. And i could hear the profanity from inside my house sometimes

"goes up against a loner in a trenchcoat?". People at the school didnt make them loners, they made themselves loners. I know some people LIKE to be loners but you cant use that as a reason to justify there actions if they chose that path.

"goes up against a loner in a trenchcoat?". Go up against? haha, its not like they challenged them to a duel or somethin. Hell they didnt even start the problems between themselves and the "loners in trenchcoats". The "trench coat mafia" was its own little clique. They talked umongts themselves and made fun of the people who were not in there group just as much as the "jocks" and "bullies" made fun of them. It was a 2 way ordeal. It wasnt just a bunch of "jocks" bashing the loners in trenchcoats every day untill they got fed up with it and shot people. It was 2 groups making fun of each other, and one group ( well actually just 2 people from it) couldnt handle it and decided to shoot everyone.

they were cowards. They knew what they did was wrong and not justified and that they were just as much to blame. why do you think they killed themselves afterwards


and Cannon is right. there was innocent blood shed that day. some of the people didnt even know who eric and dylan were

Heres a List of all the people mudered that day
Cassie Bernall....(17)
Steven Curnow.....(14)
Corey DePooter....(17)
Kelly Fleming.....(16)
Matthew Kechter...(16)
Dan Mauser........(15)
Daniel Rohrbough..(15)
Rachel Scott......(17)
Isaiah Shoels.....(18)
John Tomlin.......(16)
Lauren Townsend...(18)
Kyle Velasquez....(16)
William "Dave" Sanders (47)



This is a list of all of the victims who were injured
Brian Anderson....(17)
Richard Castaldo..(17)
Jennifer Doyle....(17)
Stephen Eubanks...(17)
Nicholas Foss.....(18)
Sean Graves.......(15)
Makai Hall........(19)
Anne Hochhalter...(17)
Patrick Ireland...(17)
Joyce Jankowski...(45)
Michael Johnson...(15)
Mark Kintgen......(17)
Lance Kirklin.....(16)
Lisa Kreutz.......(18)
Adam Kyler........(16)
Stephanie Munson..(17)
Patricia Nielsen..(35)
Nicole Nowlen.....(16)
Jeanna Park.......(18)
Kasey Ruegsegger..(17)
Valeen Schnurr....(18)
Danny Steepleton..(17)
Mark Taylor.......(16)


now can you honestly say that all of these people deserved what they got?
they shot people who liked them.....as well as the ones who didnt

^^^ btw i just woke up and am half asleep so if any of that doesnt make sense ( just a bunch of random words that dont even form a sentence) lemme know and ill fix it lol

You know what... i didnt even mention how something like effects the people who love them. what did the families of the victims do to eric and dylan? One of my friends had a sister injured in the shooting. His mother committed suicide because she was so torn up.






btw i forgot one little bit of what i was gonna say

you say they were "chauvinistic?" ( by the way you spelled it wrong)

if anyone was chauvinistic then it was the "trenchcoat mafia" you wouldnt understand for 2 reasons.
1- you didnt know them
2- your the same way. you try and come off as this powerful supreme being....why? becuase thats what you long for, you dont want to be like everybody else. you want to be more powerful than anyone else. you want to be able to conjur lighting out of the sky, and fly around like superman, and punish all who oppose you, and butter your toast with there brains. you wish every night when you go to sleep that you will glowing and floating in the air when you wake up

^^^

Ahahahahah...

Wow. I don't always agree with Keeper, but what you just said is hilariously idiotic. He's got an ego, but who doesn't?

No, Columbine shouldn't have happened, but that's the chance you take when you pick on anybody, regardless of who starts what. Some people will snap because you farted upwind from them.

They had nothing to lose. And what did they lose? Nothing.

Let me clarify YET AGAIN (since this point doesn't seem to take hold).

I never said they deserved what they got. I'm not the one that deals out karma--you'll have to ask whatever deity/force/chance you believe in for the ruling on that one.

However, while i will admit i'm going on conjecture, i have to point out that you don't really even need to know someone to be guilty of something on the ridicule against them. Can you say for 100% certainty, Matt, that every single person you listed did not slight them in any way, shape, or form? I doubt that. Call it a hunch it you will. you could say i see through the eyes of the Eric and Dylan (however, my revenge is in the fact that i'm one of the few from my graduating class *Not* sorking at the wall mart or the Winco some 8 years after I graduated ), and i am pretty sure i can say thatmost of the people from the lists probably weren't "innocent".

But, do i think Eric and Dylan were right...HELL NO. Shooting up a school is lame and as you aptly put it...cowardly. But, as i learned in the aftermath after the media focused less on the fact that 13 people were killed by their peers, and more focused on the trenchcoats and the apparent "clique" rather than the facts of the situation, it can be a great point to make to those that feel themselves unassailable, and even you have to admit, Matt, that you may have made fun of someone in your past, or laughed at someone in passing based upon ridicule, and once it happened, i think you have to admit that it scared you--that someone *could* snap and you'd be liteally under the gun.

Think of that point.

Now, from the people i know from that area, they have described many from that area falling into the "foul-mouthed, chauvenistic white trash" (which, if you notice i didn't say excluded Eric and Dylan), and that many are very elitist. And notice that i didn't say that being a loner--by choice or popular demand is a justification on one's actions--it's not.

However, not being able to get inside everyone's head, you still have to ask, why did the "trenchcoat mafia" band together in that clique? it's something that would have to be addressed in the psycologial level. My guess is peer rejection--maybe not even from High school, but before. After all, what you described would be a perfect reaction--a group of kids in similar circumstance, adopt a sign of solidarity (a trenchcoat), and then react the same way against those that forced them into the situation. A basal human reaction with little thought and a lot of impluse behind it.

But, a couple of Bad Apples ruined it for everyone. Sucks, yes. I don't doubt that. But again:

Eric and Dylan have the modt blood on their hands--point well made.

Their parents have blood on their hands--another point well made.

Those that ridiculed them have blood on their hands (to a lesser degree, but degree doesn't wash you clean).

The parents of those kids have blood on their hands--after all, they tought--or allowed them to ridicule those that were different.

The teachers and faculty have blood on their hands--for the same as the aforementioned parents.

And the rest of the students that showed indifference had blood on their hands.

That why i don't see anyone as innocent (but no one deserving of what they got--if you follow). As a result, EVERYONE has blood on their hands. And not just there--everywhere the same @!#$ happens. I would change it, but if i was the "supreme being" that you say i come off as, I would be able to change human nature.

I can't. If i could, a lot of things would be different. I'm just dissaffected by it because i don't believe life is sacred, i know people could die that i care about without reason or rhyme that i can fathom, and yes, I still have to go on. Life is not a picnic--it's a kidn where the birds @!#$ all over you while you and your g/f are trying to have a moment.

Call me jaded if you will.

And yes, i have a big ego--and i admit i'm an arrogant prick. But again, there's nothign so sacred that i can't see how someone would find humor in it. Hell, if i lost 99% of my freinds because Mt. Rainier went off and wiped out Seattle and only a handful were smart enough to get the hel out of dodge--i would expect people to be making fun of them--no matter how close i was.

Call me crass, call me crude, call me an @!#$, call me deluded--fine, i won't argue with you--but don't threaten to shoot me in the face (otherwise you'd be no better than Eric and Dylan), and don't assume that i'm a homosexual based on this--my g/f would disagree.



Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

hey i'm a troll, i even know some yoopers

really relatively useless to argue the point here IMHO, however if anyone as an individual does not either sit back and re-evaluate the way they do things/treat others or learn anything from the whole ordeal then they are wasting my O2. can't change it, it sucks (even more if you are more involved/ close to the situation), get over it, move on.

and anyways for those of you that are all huffy tuffy aboot the whole thing it's not like you never told a Princess Diana, Superman, or Micheal Jackson pedophile joke; hell anything off color getting a laugh at someone elses expense/ misfortune.

those of you without sin/karmic blemishes i have an assload of rocks outside my apartment, feel free to come by and start casting them.

Maybe you should put in some brackets that explination of it so people don't get the wrong idea. IT doesn't exactly exude a kind warm fuzzy feeling you know?

I understand the point KOTL is making about his tagline completely. Everyone affected in the situation has some level of guilt, wether they walked by the two shooters in the hallway and laughed at them, or simply did nothing as they were being picked on. The "innocent" people may have had nothing to do in the entire situation, but I personally know of noone who has never slighted someone in the least. There are no truly "innocent" people anyways. As someone said a while back, (I think paraphrasing George Carlin, but I'm not too sure) "A birth certificate is proof of guilt." And allthough I don't wholeheartedly believe in that statement, it rings true for the most part.

As far as "going up against a loner in a trenchcoat," I see that as someone, while not directly confronting the loner, maybe harassing them or ignoring the problem. Which is in it'sself effectively furthering the problem.

OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here and probably get flamed, but of all of the "innocent" people killed on that day, who's to say that none of them would have ended up worse off than the shooters??? It's the same thing with the September 11 attacks; People look at it as a great tragedy, and of all of the potential that was wasted. But, who's to say a few loose screws weren't going to turn out worse in either situation??? How many would-be assassins, rapists, abusers, common criminals, and even future terrorists were snuffed out in the strife??? Sure, it's not likely that everyone would be better off dead, but remember, one person can kill a whole lot of people. The terrorist strikes on 9/11 averaged somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 people killed for every terrorist, if my math is correct. And the Oklahoma city bombings ratio was probably 100:1, I believe.

My point is, people always try to make good out of an extremely bad situation, and that's not entirely bad, but sooner or later you're going to have to get back in touch with reality and realize that life is harsh, and glossing over everything is almost always worse than looking at the situation with an open mind.




Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!

I'm not here to make everyone feel warm and fuzzy...laugh at the foibles of everyone--laugh harder at my foibles, point out the humor in the blatantly obvious which everyone seems to be oblivious to, put an alternative spin or alternative view on things, and for showing people that one can be fully content knowing that things are pretty much @!#$ (they make handbaskets quite comfortable nowadays).

Nope, no warm and fuzzy feeling there--i suggest a pet or a s/o for that .

Besides, if we suddenly held everything sacred, comedy would die out and life would be about as intresting as the TV channel that shows constant color bars.

Besdies, most likely, like my sigs, i'll sooner or later get sick of it and change it.

Quote:

and anyways for those of you that are all huffy tuffy aboot the whole thing it's not like you never told a Princess Diana, Superman, or Micheal Jackson pedophile joke; hell anything off color getting a laugh at someone elses expense/ misfortune.

Yes, but i wouldn't consider it a tragedy if i got shot because i made a joke at someone's expense...i would have wondered what else would have caused that much karmic kickback.

Plus, if you've read enough of my posts, i don't think i'm without sin--in the christian or even the pagan sense. I know i'm flawed as hell--in some cases more than most people. I just don't let it get me down as I meander though life.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

i must say that i agree with what KOTL has been saying.

in society today there is allways lines between people that spereate them. rich/poor good/evil popular/loner. for those people who have an akward veiw on the other side of the "line" because they dont understand it. they belive that it is all the loner trenchcoat peoples fault, but until youve been in their position on their side of the line you dont know anything.

im not saying that it was justified whatsoever, but because ive been in their position i know exactly how it feels. most people cast themselves away from society just because they dont feel comfortable around others, and because they have been cast away by others.

i will glady wear my trenchcoat around town not caring what others think but knowing as a cop goes by that he believes im gonna shoot something up just because of everyones fear of things different than them.

Then I would hope that you should expect to get @!#$ from it if you don't fully explain it. How you present yourself, no matter how good or bad your intentions, does actually matter even if you don't care if it does or doesn't.

As they say, you reap what you sow.

Hey, i'm not complaining, i do reap what I sow, but if i see something i am like, "WTF?" with, i'd ask for a clarification before an outright attempt of character assassination, ya know?

Besdies, i just pulled this hear from the topic in OT--sicne this looked liek it would be good debate fodder


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

[quote=Keeper of the Light™]I'm not here to make everyone feel warm and fuzzy...laugh at the foibles of everyone--laugh harder at my foibles, point out the humor in the blatantly obvious which everyone seems to be oblivious to, put an alternative spin or alternative view on things, and for showing people that one can be fully content knowing that things are pretty much @!#$ (they make handbaskets quite comfortable nowadays).

Nope, no warm and fuzzy feeling there--i suggest a pet or a s/o for that .

Besides, if we suddenly held everything sacred, comedy would die out and life would be about as intresting as the TV channel that shows constant color bars.

Besdies, most likely, like my sigs, i'll sooner or later get sick of it and change it.

Quote:

and anyways for those of you that are all huffy tuffy aboot the whole thing it's not like you never told a Princess Diana, Superman, or Micheal Jackson pedophile joke; hell anything off color getting a laugh at someone elses expense/ misfortune.

Yes, but i wouldn't consider it a tragedy if i got shot because i made a joke at someone's expense...i would have wondered what else would have caused that much karmic kickback.

Plus, if you've read enough of my posts, i don't think i'm without sin--in the christian or even the pagan sense. I know i'm flawed as hell--in some cases more than most people. I just don't let it get me down as I meander though life.

that last bit was not directed at you KOTL, i am with ya i find many things humorous that others think is tragic/awful. i am able to laugh at my own misfortunes (eventually) just not always right away, basicly my view is there is humor everywhere some people just can't find it.

Borsty wrote:yea i never liked that sig, some @!#$ nerd faggot who thinks he can murder people just cause they picked on him, its called, get the @!#$ over it and get a life. u @!#$ piece of loser @!#$, next time just @!#$ kill yourself.


i wish i would have 10 minutes with anyone who ever wanted to shoot up a school. i would break every bone in their pansy body.

thats what i think`, dont like it? blow me.


-Borsty

You're entitled to your own opinion--just like i'm entitled to mine.

after all, if you don't like my tagline, you can blow me


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Bortsy opinion isn't exactly the most thought out one on this site.

In fact, it's rarely coherent. But, it's his, and he feels happy about it, and enjoys all the blowing he apparently gets from it.

Hey, nothing wrong with wanting to get blown...


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

What's the kafuffle? All Keeper said was that sometimes people are unstable, if the get pushed, they snap (especially if they're off their lithium). People are dangerous animals, watch your step.

PAX