I am posting this because it is close to my heart, i used to live about 1 hour from srebrenica... Please check out this horrible video to witness what the serbian ARMY did to Bosnian muslim civilians during the war. Here is a news link and a video link...
also know that while all of this was happening, the Dutch part of the UN looked on and didnt do anything about it.
http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/article/0,13005,901050613-1069056,00.html
and in this video you can see a 16 year old boy get shot in the back along with 5 other people. 2 people are made to watch the killings, they carry the bodies into a secluded area, then they are shot too. THE SERBIAN ARMY DID THE KILLINGS, this was the police of the Serbian government that killed innocent civilians...this is the raw version of the video, it has not been cut. PLEASE watch it if you dont have a weak stomach...
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/vi/0,47-0,54-657785,0.html
...Please remember Srebrenica
Thank you for looking
Both sides have blood on their hands, and both are responsible for war-time atrocities.
Instead of dredging up the past for the past's sake (we're not a war crimes tribunal), and shocking people, focus on healing, and leaving the past in the past.
(I have a Bosnian Serb and muslim Croat as neighbours... one is moving (thank god) because they found out they who each other was... Both have been in Canada for over 35 years, but they went and started something. Bringing stuff over here where it has no ounce and no play, and involving people that want nothing to do with your problems is not cool, at least I can take my f**king garbage out without having to hear those two bicker like children).
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
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Both sides have blood on their hands, and both are responsible for war-time atrocities.
well GAM, i would think that YOU would have a more human perspective on this. its is true that both sides have blood on their hands, but which side has the first blood, the most blood, the youngest blood?
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Instead of dredging up the past for the past's sake (we're not a war crimes tribunal), and shocking people, focus on healing, and leaving the past in the past.
Informing people about one part of my life, is the least I can do to show what was done to our people. would you criticise a jewish person who was showing holocaust pictures on this forum to further inform the public on the holocaust?
your neighbors have nothing to do with this situation, especially the situation in srebrenica. so that does not even come into play here.
Leaving the past is forgetting. i dont want to forget, i will forgive, and since my girlfriend is one half serbian, i have nothing against ALL SERBIANS. i was just trying to show you guys what was done. well thanks for looking anyway.
this is not the childish bickering you see your neighbors go through. 8,000 people were killed in this small town in less then 48 hours. this is larger than your neighbors ignorance infested feud.
like i said, thanks for looking...
first blood, most blood, youngest blood... way to base on rankings.... BLOOD is BLOOD, killing a child is just as bad as killing an adult
this is not the childish bickering you see your neighbors go through. 8,000 people were killed in this small town in less then 48 hours. this is larger than your neighbors ignorance infested feud.
so....stalin killed 20 million of his own people!!
mourn for them...
Upstate: No, leaving the past in the past is the way to heal. I never said forget about what happened... That's silliness.
I'm saying, don't let the past consume you, because that's how these blood feuds start. Let the dead rest, and work towards a better future. It sounds sappy, but its the only way that this kind of thing will stop happening.
Fighting for peace is like f**king for virginity.
ECB: I realise that, my point was that they're bringing along old feuds with them over here. Do I have to paint a freaking sign?
The point is that:
- Under Communist rule, these insipient curtaillings didn't happen, there was a greater threat.
- After communism evaporated, these VERY OLD and LONG DEAD feuds re-emerged.
It's as pointless as the Hatfield-McCoy feud... when does the madness stop?
Tredici has the idea... don't confuse the issue by ranking atrocities. STOP IT, let the chips fall where they may, and work towards a peaceful and lasting resolution.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
It seems to me that there will never be peace between Serb/Croats, just like the middle east. I don't know what it is, Is it just me or does its seem rediculous, we fought the british for our independence and we have been friggin allies since who knows when. Hell, look at us and the germans. Granted there has been some drastic change in government, but how did this happen for us and them and things have still gone badly for the serbs/croats and middle east or even india and pakistan.
(uh sig?)
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so....stalin killed 20 million of his own people!!
you're basically saying that unless you are talking about stalin's attrocities you cannot talk about any other horrible thing that happened in the world, because it is in a smaller proportion....?
Tredici wrote:first blood, most blood, youngest blood... way to base on rankings.... BLOOD is BLOOD, killing a child is just as bad as killing an adult
Blood is blood. however a soldier's blood is different than a civilian's blood. Bosnian ARMIES never went and killed 8,000 civilians in a small town. Bosnian Armies actually killed more Serbian soldiers than the Serbian army killed more Bosnian Soldiers. They were out for the civilians. it was genocide.
You people make it seem like all three sides have an equal amount of guilt. not true, the Serbian president Milosevic is on trial for the genocide attempt in Bosnia, not the other side's presidents. He lead the army to cleanse everything that is not serbian.
I'm showing you guys this video because just like you, many Serbians did not truly believe, or did not want to believe what happened in Srebrenica. That's until they were shown this video. And there's more video's like this coming as Milosevic's trial moves along...
this is all happening while they found my friend fathers body, without his head in a mass grave 6 days ago.
maybe that is why i am ranting, but i choose not to forget. just thought i'd let you know how i feel about this, since this has been in the news recently.
Emor8t: I think that there has been a lot of fomenting of hate between the two sides... Hell, look at India and Pakistan with Kashmir, mid east has nothing on THAT one.
Oh.. the War of Independance, I hate to shatter the myth, British surrendered to the French.
The US declared independance from Britain, and France aided Americans... but the French were the ones to issue terms of surrender.
Anyhow...
Britain has been friendly with the USA for about 200 some odd years after King George died.
Upstate:
There have been villages on BOTH sides that were cleansed. The only problem is that Serb villages were wiped out using serbian army issued arms and munitions.
http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/politics/war_crimes/vukovar/vukovar7.html
I'm sorry, but No-one involved in that war is without guilt, blood or damnation. Both sides have complicity in their ranks, and both sides committed atrocities.
The point I was making is that it doesn't matter, because it's not one sided like Germans and Jews, or Iraqis and Kuwaitis...
That war has no winners... just losers. Putting aside the hate by BOTH sides is a better idea.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
GAM: youre confusing some things here...
VUKOVAR is a thing between the Serbs and the Croats..
Srebrenica is a Bosnian Muslim Town that was erased by the Serbian Police.
and noone is without guilt, however one side has MORE guilt than the other.
GAM: find me one helpless, civilian, unarmed SERBIAN village that lost 8,000 people in 48 hours because the Bosnian Army erased it...you will not be able to.
and that is all I'm trying to say here.
no its not... are you saying that an army is as guilty if they kill 5000 soldiers as an army that kills 5000 civilians? intentionally...
Don't put words into my mouth.
Take that @!#$ elsewhere.
I still find it funny... 'more guilty'... you keep thinking that man. Hold onto that hostility nice and tight... I am sure it'll get you somewhere.
Actually no, no it won't.
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i said more guilt, not more guilty.
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are you saying that an army is as guilty if they kill 5000 soldiers as an army that kills 5000 civilians? intentionally..
well if you think that soldiers killing civilians is worse then soldiers killing soldiers, then you agree with me...that is all that that statement implied.
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Hold onto that hostility nice and tight... I am sure it'll get you somewhere
i am not hostile. i am actually a calm person. everyone always points that out.
so why is it hostile if i point something like this out? i mean nobody told Karo that he was hostile when he posted a thread that reminded everyone of a Turkish genocide attempt on the Armenians, almost 100 years ago...
this is still recent, so i think it is still relevant because it is the only genocide attempt since world war two.
No, not the only genocide attempt:
Houtou and Tutsies (1994)
Israeli jews and Muslims in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem (1949)
Iraqis and Kurds (1978-90)
Russians and Afghanis (1980-84)
Fundamentalist Iranians and Secular Iranians (1978 - Present)
Black South Africans and White South Africans (1996 - Present)
Genocide is a sad tradition. But Yugoslavia <a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/genocide4.htm">Isn't the only place genocide has found a home</a>
<a href="http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/POSTWWII.HTM">Democide</a> is just as bad.
You're not alone... And my original point still stands. Ploughing this over and over isn't going to accomplish anything. I'm not suggesting we just forget it, I'm suggesting you put the anger down like a sack of bricks, mourn the dead, and move on with your life.
http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/politics/war_crimes/miskina/index.html
Just food for thought. I don't think muck of Maj. Gen. MacKenzie, but I respect his military career.
Democide indeed.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
not to mention the horrible lies that have been told about the attrocities.
were innocent people killed? YES
was it GENOCIDE? NO!!!!
has anybody been paying attention to the hague case regarding Milosovic? i hope so cause alot of truth is coming out about what really happened in the balkins.
There hasn't been much press coverage about Milosevic. I suspect that the UN wants to wrap up his minions first, in order to get them to roll over on him. I think that they might be seeking the death penalty for them, but who knows... There are few people that deserve it, and in this case (I'm not for liberal application of the death penalty in most cases, this case would warrant it) Milosevic and his cohorts are definitely worthy of the punishment.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
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has anybody been paying attention to the hague case regarding Milosovic? i hope so cause alot of truth is coming out about what really happened in the balkins.
this tape is from the Milosevic trial, they can only release it to the public once its been shown in the hague court. this particular serbial police force "the scorpions" are shown in the video, they are being shown killing innocent civilians, 7,000-8,000 more were killed in the same town in a matter of 48 hours. "the scorpions" took orders from Ratko Mladic, who took orders from Slobodan Milosevic.
More tapes from Srebrenica are to be shown at the Milosevic trial. maybe that will clear up your misconception about the killings of the people there.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:There hasn't been much press coverage about Milosevic. I suspect that the UN wants to wrap up his minions first, in order to get them to roll over on him. I think that they might be seeking the death penalty for them, but who knows... There are few people that deserve it, and in this case (I'm not for liberal application of the death penalty in most cases, this case would warrant it) Milosevic and his cohorts are definitely worthy of the punishment.
Milosovic is about to get off scott free. the UN prosecution is now delaying the courts so as to hold him in custody longer. but their case is exceptionally weak and at best will get milosovic on minor charges that he will get timed served for.
we will see about that. do you want to place bets?
I think this quote from MASH sums up this and any war:
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Hawkeye: War isn't Hell. War is war, and Hell is Hell. And of the two, war is a lot worse.
Father Mulcahy: How do you figure, Hawkeye?
Hawkeye: Easy, Father. Tell me, who goes to Hell?
Hawkeye: Exactly. There are no innocent bystanders in Hell. War is chalk full of them - little kids, cripples, old ladies. In fact, except for some of the brass, almost everybody involved is an innocent bystander.
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http://www.icdsm.org/more/Lituchy2107.htm
.... This is a far cry from the trials at Nuremberg or the Eichmann trial, to which this one is so often falsely compared, where an abundance of written evidence proved guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
In the eyes of all objective observers, Milosevic's rebuttals thus far have already justified an acquittal. Now either the judges must proceed according to the rule of law and allow the defendant his right to establish his innocence, or forfeit all pretense to legitimacy. Scheffer's logic makes for good propaganda, but bad justice....
I have a very close friend that came here to the US from Bosnia...she was a refugee along with her infant son (at the time).
Some of the things that she has been through in her 30 years of life is unbelievable. She was very lucky to have been able to come to this country when she did. She has worked very hard to have the life that she has here and has truely enjoyed being a citizen here. She has no desire whatsoever to go back to Bosnia...
pretjah your sources are amazing! your source: the international committe to defend slobodan milosevic...
my source: my own experience, AP, and other unbiased newssources...
if this thing in srebrenica never happened, why dont you tell me why there are almost no women with a husband in/from that town? the census shows it to be that way, is the census lying?
you think this is a conspiracy theory, and this is why i choose not to talk to you about it anymore, we will both see about slobodan milosevic's outcome.
cheers.
UpstateNyZ24 wrote:pretjah your sources are amazing! your source: the international committe to defend slobodan milosevic...
my source: my own experience, AP, and other unbiased newssources...
actually the ICDSM...is simply linking others work. this isn't their own work.
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if this thing in srebrenica never happened, why dont you tell me why there are almost no women with a husband in/from that town? the census shows it to be that way, is the census lying?
you think this is a conspiracy theory, and this is why i choose not to talk to you about it anymore, we will both see about slobodan milosevic's outcome.
cheers.
actually i do believe some horrible things happened in srebrenica and i'm reasonably sure that in that instance they were initiated by the serbs however there was no genocide it was a war and in war horrible things happen
