I have been doing datalogging on my 01 Z24 LD9. All bolt ons. I'm getting a decent amount of KR. I have taking away some timing, but still getting some. I'm curious if anyone else has had this, or seen this? On the stock tune my car put down 151who just a couple months back running rich. Tomorrow I'm going to run the PE low octane table as my PE high octane as well, and see what I get. I also wonder if the motor mounts, tranny mounts are giving soo much vibes that I'm getting ghost knock??? I do not hear any knock. Any info and feedback would be great. Thanks
FU Tuning
a little bit of KR is not that bad. if your getting like 1-2 in the cells, thats not too bad. if your getting like 3or more, then i would start to worry about it. but like shifted said, it may not be actual knock your getting. it could be the knock sensor is sensitive or the motor bucking in between shifts or something can cause it to trip sometimes.
1997 RedR - ZedR
Sorry I was tired lastnight when I made that post. Some more info I would like to add. No I do not hear any knock, but getting KR. Anything under 1 degree I'm not really worried about. Usually getting 1.2-1.9. At times seen 3.4-4.2. I know depending ok KR the car will switch to low octane tables, but the amount of spark advance I'm seeing is way above the low octane (and sometimes the high octane tables). Where else does the ECU get timing advance from? I have seen 26.5 with 1-2 degree of KR, and 28 with none. Yes under WOT. I'm going to play with pulling timing and see what happens. I would think if I mpull timing but keep getting KR then maybe it is from all the stiff mounts, and the fact that Quads are not the most silent motors.
FU Tuning
to answer your questions as best as i can john... here goes
the 1.2-1.9 degree is nothing to worry about, just like you said. the 3.4 - 4.2 on the other hand is something i would worry about. try dropping the timing down a little bit around that RPM range.
as for the extra timing you are seeing above the high octane table... my car was expiriencing that aswell. my friend that tuned the car believes that there might be an EGR multiplier for timing, and he has contacted HPT about it already. i dont know if he has heard back from them or not, but i think they were investigating it and if they found it would try to put a control for it in one of their next releases.
contact Shane Hewitt on the forums here, he is who tuned my car.
there doesnt seem to be another way that the car could pull in aditional timing over the high octane table that would make sense. it would be nice to know if there was an EGR adder in our programming and would probably be nice to turn that off so you dont get this added timing surprize.
i dont even know if your car has the EGR or not, i cant remember what years have it and didnt have it or what car that is in your registry you are even tuning (your 1996 may have a ECU swap done...)
1997 RedR - ZedR
whitegoose( RedR-ZedR) wrote:to answer your questions as best as i can john... here goes
the 1.2-1.9 degree is nothing to worry about, just like you said. the 3.4 - 4.2 on the other hand is something i would worry about. try dropping the timing down a little bit around that RPM range.
as for the extra timing you are seeing above the high octane table... my car was expiriencing that aswell. my friend that tuned the car believes that there might be an EGR multiplier for timing, and he has contacted HPT about it already. i dont know if he has heard back from them or not, but i think they were investigating it and if they found it would try to put a control for it in one of their next releases.
contact Shane Hewitt on the forums here, he is who tuned my car.
there doesnt seem to be another way that the car could pull in aditional timing over the high octane table that would make sense. it would be nice to know if there was an EGR adder in our programming and would probably be nice to turn that off so you dont get this added timing surprize.
i dont even know if your car has the EGR or not, i cant remember what years have it and didnt have it or what car that is in your registry you are even tuning (your 1996 may have a ECU swap done...)
Thanks for the response. It is my 01 Z24 (which does not have EGR). I realize the 1.2-1.9 is n ot to big of a deal, but at the same time I would like to get it gone (if possible). I wish there was other J's in my area that had set-ups close to mine so I could datalog them to compare. I will conttact Shane as well. Thanks again.
FU Tuning
The issue we were having with extra timing with Rob's car was in the light load areas of the timing map, not WOT. Bill at HPTuners suspected that there was an EGR adder table that was not in the definition file....maybe next release.
At WOT though, Rob's car behaved as the tables suggested it would. It tolerated up to 32 deg. of timing KR free.
When you are looking at your timing tables for WOT, be sure you are looking at Engine>Spark Control>Spark Advance>HO (PE). This is the timing map that the car references for WOT, & in most points of the map there are a few extra degrees of timing above the normal High Octane map (well, in Rob's tune file that was the case anyway)
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Shane Hewitt wrote:The issue we were having with extra timing with Rob's car was in the light load areas of the timing map, not WOT. Bill at HPTuners suspected that there was an EGR adder table that was not in the definition file....maybe next release.
At WOT though, Rob's car behaved as the tables suggested it would. It tolerated up to 32 deg. of timing KR free.
When you are looking at your timing tables for WOT, be sure you are looking at Engine>Spark Control>Spark Advance>HO (PE). This is the timing map that the car references for WOT, & in most points of the map there are a few extra degrees of timing above the normal High Octane map (well, in Rob's tune file that was the case anyway)
I double checked the spark files I'm looking at and I am looking at HO (PE). Yes that table is higher than LO(PE), and normal HO maps. Thanks for you info.
I little off this subject, I was comparing a 97 2.4 tune I have off a friends car. I was surprised to see EVERYTHING (excpet rev limiter, no IPW Multi). I was really expecting to see some small differences. Even the injector const. was the same.
FU Tuning
Little bit of a update. I have copied my LO PE tables into my HO PE tables. I'm getting now up to 30 degree's advance (highest table in my HO PE is 21 degree's) WTF???? Question are we 100% sure that the Alcohol PE tables are not used at all? I'm going to lower those tables now and see what happens.
FU Tuning
I always copy my HO PE to my Alc HO PE table to make sure i have 100% control of it.
if thats the case then, couldnt you copy your alchohol tables to your LO and HO tables? im assuming you would have to run a fairly high octane for that though....
1997 RedR - ZedR
whitegoose( RedR-ZedR) wrote:if thats the case then, couldnt you copy your alchohol tables to your LO and HO tables? im assuming you would have to run a fairly high octane for that though....
Yes you could. Of course weather your motor will like it or not is a different story. I will be loading a new tune (my HOPE, LOPE, and AlcHO tables will all be the same). Will see how that does, might also copy the AlcLO tables as well.
FU Tuning
Quote:
(my HOPE, LOPE, and AlcHO tables will all be the same)
John which tables did you copy into all the others tables.....
In your other post you said,
Quote:
I have copied my LO PE tables into my HO PE tables.
I thought that you would want to go the other way for power, copy the HO PE tables to the LO PE tables, or are you doing this to kill the knock retard?
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
-MD- LD9 wrote:Quote:
(my HOPE, LOPE, and AlcHO tables will all be the same)
John which tables did you copy into all the others tables.....
In your other post you said, Quote:
I have copied my LO PE tables into my HO PE tables.
I thought that you would want to go the other way for power, copy the HO PE tables to the LO PE tables, or are you doing this to kill the knock retard?
I copied my LO PE tables into my HO PE, and Alc PE HO and LO. First without a dyno I would never know if I'm gaining power by adding timing. Right now I'm trying to get rid of KR, or see if it is real or maybe ghost knock. I have done it just not went out and datalogged. I did not feel like moving my work Van lastnight. If I do not get called into work I plan to go for a ride today.
FU Tuning
I had a look at a few LD9 tune files, & the alcohol & non-alcohol tables were identical. Unless your tune file is otherwise, I doubt this to be the issue. Have you got a tune file & log you could e-mail me to look at to see what the problem is you're having?
The other thing that I've noted while datalogging is that if for example your car is at 5200 rpm and your MAP reading is say 92.5, the car will command timing somewhere between the 90 & 95 cells on your timing table. So if your timing table shows 31 deg. at 90 kPa & 29 at 95 kPa, you'll likely see 30 deg. With that in mind, the tables I've looked at have numerous instances where 2 cells next to each other have upwards of 4 or more degrees difference. Not sure this is the what you're seeing, but may be worth taking a second look at your logs to confirm this isn't the problem.
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Ok another update. I lowered all timing tables (HO-PE, LO PE, Alc HO-PE, Alc LO-PE). Max timing advnce was 21 degree's. I'm still getting up to 26 degree's advance. Where is this 5 extra degree's comoing from. I'm still getting some KR, but not as much. Still going to play more with timing. Any idea's where the extra advance is coming from?
FU Tuning
