Just looking through the history of F-body cars from their arrival to about the 3rd gen time period as well as many other cars from that era and comparing to modern cars something hit me. Modern cars really have no options. Usually theres 3 different trim levels of a car maybe a coupe or sedan option and thats it. You really can't deviate much from that.
A Trans AM in the 80s you could pick between 2 different radios, cloth or leather seats, about 5-6 different interior colors, several different engines, different transmissions, different suspensions, different rear end gears, different brakes. Going back further in the 60s there was option codes a mile long for cars, you could get them exactly how you wanted. Modern cars have just become so cookie cutter.
Look at a car like the cobalt ss for example what's really optional? Its nothing more than a trim level so its exactly the same except for exterior color as every other one thats made. As far as the excuse that being boring has to be done to be profitable is BS. Pure BS.
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
welcome to modern day america. cookie cutter is what we do.
well, for one, you're comparing an eco crapbox, to a sports car. 2 very different markets.
2: from a business standpoint, it allows them to drop the prices on the cars, so that they'll sell better. Something they're already struggling with. Fact is, the market is changed, and a higher efficiency is required, or you go out of business. You choose.
Here are the best-selling vehicles through the first six months of 2009 and the number of vehicles reported sold. So there is no C4C interference of what people choose.
1. Ford F-Series: 179,632
2. Toyota Camry: 150,242
3. Chevrolet Silverado: 149,949
4. Honda Accord: 131,043
5. Toyota Corolla: 121,643
6. Honda Civic: 118,459
7. Nissan Altima: 96,428
8. Dodge Ram: 94,516
9. Ford Fusion: 85,146
10. Honda CR-V: 78,917
This is an odd topic. On one hand you have pick-ups that have lots of choices in their option list and they are still on top. But on the other hand you have plain vanilla designs with generally high value--low option still chalking up the charts.
I know since Mercedes' E-class is a everyday car over in Europe and the world, it has the option of up to 10 freaking engines, choice of trannies, RWD/AWD, cloth, vinyl, leather, etc. Yet here we rarely have options. So I can see where you're going with this.
I can opine that like it or not, this country is boring when it comes to auto shopping. Look at what we like, the only one there that can remotely inspire any fun is the Altima. Looks like the North America auto industry consist of cookie cutter design with "value" for sprinkles in order to sell well here.
Hey, it worked for Ford's Model T didn't?
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Rodimus Prime wrote:Being cost efficient has hurt the individuality of cars
I think it has much less to do with cost efficiency and much more to do with American consumers. I can still remember the day when you could walk into a dealer, and if they didn't have what you wanted, it was no problem to put an order in for the exact car you wanted, and within a couple weeks it would be delivered. I dare you to try that today. Walk into a dealer and tell them you want to *order* a car. They'll tell you to take what they got on the lot or hit the road.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about
the former." - Albert Einstein
Dave wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:Being cost efficient has hurt the individuality of cars
I think it has much less to do with cost efficiency and much more to do with American consumers. I can still remember the day when you could walk into a dealer, and if they didn't have what you wanted, it was no problem to put an order in for the exact car you wanted, and within a couple weeks it would be delivered. I dare you to try that today. Walk into a dealer and tell them you want to *order* a car. They'll tell you to take what they got on the lot or hit the road.
As sad as this is....its the truth. I had to go to three dealers before one would order my 5 speed HHR for me.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
I have to disagree. While there aren't as many body styles/colour options, anything I wanted on my Corolla that wasn't in the package, they could add as a dealer installed option for the MSRP.I could have added the body kit, lip spoiler, alloys, TRD parts command start, 6 disc in dash changer, and a whole list of other options from the dealer. GM will do it for you, too (the dealer up here told me so, anyways). You just have to ask. The web sites will tell you that you can't add accessory X without adding package A, B, C or D, but a good dealership will add what you want at the time of sale, or find you a car that has what you want on it.
The only company I've seen that doesn't do that is our VW dealer. They only do packages, but the packages are cheaper than the parts that come in them, and they all make sense (Every company needs a cold weather package! Yes, there are more things to go wrong with it that way, but the things that come in that package are just awesome living in a place that has -50 C weather once in a while.)
2010 Honda Fit LX
If I wanted my plain car to be different Id make it my own myself instead of ordering a bunch of options that everyone else has.
"Individuality" in a mass produced car is a joke.
Quote:
If I wanted my plain car to be different Id make it my own myself instead of ordering a bunch of options that everyone else has.
"Individuality" in a mass produced car is a joke.
You'd best be trollin. I've always wished I could have bought a car in the sixties or seventies. Option lists a mile long, not to mention the things you could have special ordered if you had a dealer who knew what he was doing. Big block, 4 speed, posi all in a family station wagon? Very possible.
I don't see why producing economical cars with character is so hard. Its like car designers look the pieces of sheet metal and make it into something bulbous and boring as @!#$.
Poor Mans Cavalier wrote:Quote:
If I wanted my plain car to be different Id make it my own myself instead of ordering a bunch of options that everyone else has.
"Individuality" in a mass produced car is a joke.
You'd best be trollin. I've always wished I could have bought a car in the sixties or seventies. Option lists a mile long, not to mention the things you could have special ordered if you had a dealer who knew what he was doing. Big block, 4 speed, posi all in a family station wagon? Very possible.
Or I couldve bought a cheap basic car and put a better motor a better posi and a better trans. Its all preference I like doing my own work and making things better than half the BS manufacturers do semi half ass.
TheSundownFire (JBO Chat) wrote:Poor Mans Cavalier wrote:Quote:
If I wanted my plain car to be different Id make it my own myself instead of ordering a bunch of options that everyone else has.
"Individuality" in a mass produced car is a joke.
You'd best be trollin. I've always wished I could have bought a car in the sixties or seventies. Option lists a mile long, not to mention the things you could have special ordered if you had a dealer who knew what he was doing. Big block, 4 speed, posi all in a family station wagon? Very possible.
Or I couldve bought a cheap basic car and put a better motor a better posi and a better trans. Its all preference I like doing my own work and making things better than half the BS manufacturers do semi half ass.
Its always easy to say this, but just imagine if ever 3rd gen came with an ecotec, how wonderful it would be.
Dave wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:Being cost efficient has hurt the individuality of cars
I think it has much less to do with cost efficiency and much more to do with American consumers. I can still remember the day when you could walk into a dealer, and if they didn't have what you wanted, it was no problem to put an order in for the exact car you wanted, and within a couple weeks it would be delivered. I dare you to try that today. Walk into a dealer and tell them you want to *order* a car. They'll tell you to take what they got on the lot or hit the road.
No problems doing that out here...
I mean I see what your saying, but really, its cost effective to do it this way. I dont really give a @!#$ if i can choose individual options if they dont even offer the options i want...
mctoad wrote:TheSundownFire (JBO Chat) wrote:Poor Mans Cavalier wrote:Quote:
If I wanted my plain car to be different Id make it my own myself instead of ordering a bunch of options that everyone else has.
"Individuality" in a mass produced car is a joke.
You'd best be trollin. I've always wished I could have bought a car in the sixties or seventies. Option lists a mile long, not to mention the things you could have special ordered if you had a dealer who knew what he was doing. Big block, 4 speed, posi all in a family station wagon? Very possible.
Or I couldve bought a cheap basic car and put a better motor a better posi and a better trans. Its all preference I like doing my own work and making things better than half the BS manufacturers do semi half ass.
Its always easy to say this, but just imagine if ever 3rd gen came with an ecotec, how wonderful it would be.
Well if the Eco had been available before 2002 then yes. But its hard to make a nonexistent motor optional.Hahaha.
What is lacking from the dealers in options these days is more than made up for in the aftermarket.
There are not too many cars out there that do not have at least some form of aftermarket support, especially in the areas mentioned by the OP (suspension, radio, rear end)
Take the money saved by going "cookie cutter" and spend it on making your car individial if that suits you.
I think the lack of options is because of what we want. more things are made to be part of the car (non option). power locaks use to be a option in most cars, and now it usually is not a option but standard. CD player use to only be a option, now usually standard. Because these are things we require, or want.
FU Tuning
well ignore even cheap cars for instance, compare apples to apples, a new camaro SS, whats optional on it?
Onstar
Wheels
Ground Effects
Transformers package which is 2 black stripes and center caps
Plastic Engine cover
4 colors on interior accent
what kind of option list is that? Theres no rear end gear options, no engine choices, no radio/nav choices, no suspension choices, no brake options, no t-top or vert option, nothing other than leather seats
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Because of the amount of money it costs GM to make those options available. Even if no one orders said options its still money out of their pockets for designing how the options work. I guess they figured that the added cost wasnt worth the effort.
I didnt read the whole thread here but I have an opinion as well:
Its really just certain companies when they are selling to North America imo.
Here why I say that:
I was shopping for a new Audi TT last summer.
I wanted a white TT with the 2.0 turbo, 6 speed manual, rwd S-line bumpers/wheels, red leather seats.
With the TT you cannot get the 2.0 turbo with a manual transmission, to get manual you have to get the v6
you cannot get the s-line package with red interior, black is the only option
you cannot get rwd with the v6, only quattro (I would have settled for fwd even, but thats only available with the 2.0T)
The car I ended up pricing out was a v6, 6 speed manual, quattro with s-line and black interior. this was NOT the car I wanted, for $65-70gs (canadian of course) I believe I should be able to order a car with the options I want. I offered to wait as long as it took for them to build the car, but that wasnt an option even.
If you're in Germany you can order this car with ANY options you want, you can even pay extra to have it factory painted in literally any color you want, even those not offered by Audi.
This brought me to BMW. at BMW they let you pick whatever you want. I chose my interior color, exterior color, transmission, drivetrain, EVERYTHING! you can even pick colors that you wont find on a car in the showroom for an added charge. I couldnt have been happier when I sat down and picked everything for my own car, really making it my own. The wait didnt matter as long as what was being delivered was being built to my satisfaction!
Thats just my addition to the debate here!
"Louis, you better watch who you call a child. Because if I'm a child,
that makes you a pedafile, and I'm not gonna stand here and argue
with a pervert" -- Peter Griffin
Mat Cacciatore wrote:I didnt read the whole thread here but I have an opinion as well:
Its really just certain companies when they are selling to North America imo.
Here why I say that:
I was shopping for a new Audi TT last summer.
I wanted a white TT with the 2.0 turbo, 6 speed manual, rwd S-line bumpers/wheels, red leather seats.
With the TT you cannot get the 2.0 turbo with a manual transmission, to get manual you have to get the v6
you cannot get the s-line package with red interior, black is the only option
you cannot get rwd with the v6, only quattro (I would have settled for fwd even, but thats only available with the 2.0T)
The car I ended up pricing out was a v6, 6 speed manual, quattro with s-line and black interior. this was NOT the car I wanted, for $65-70gs (canadian of course) I believe I should be able to order a car with the options I want. I offered to wait as long as it took for them to build the car, but that wasnt an option even.
If you're in Germany you can order this car with ANY options you want, you can even pay extra to have it factory painted in literally any color you want, even those not offered by Audi.
This brought me to BMW. at BMW they let you pick whatever you want. I chose my interior color, exterior color, transmission, drivetrain, EVERYTHING! you can even pick colors that you wont find on a car in the showroom for an added charge. I couldnt have been happier when I sat down and picked everything for my own car, really making it my own. The wait didnt matter as long as what was being delivered was being built to my satisfaction!
Thats just my addition to the debate here!
Didn't you buy your BMW used?
Or maybe I just think you have a diff car than you do?
IN the OLD days......Pre muscle car era, there was an endless assortment of "factory" options. tissue dispensers, compass', trim and the like. Those details are comanding exceptional cash at swap meets.
Somehow I don't think the late model's smokers package will do the same with appreciation.
Vehicles are packaged as they are in order to manipulate the buyers and to make production simpler to manage.
Imagine trying to audit a product with 8000 permutations.
It's nice to see GM accesories getting back into the game. I'm not sure how successful they have been. I do know several salesman that are very keen on trimming trucks.
What bothers me most is the limited colour choices fro interiors.
