Quote:
speculation that the brand could end up with less than three unique models y the middle of the next decade
Do they HAVE 3 unique models now? G8 is the only I can think of
Solstice = Sky
Torrent = Vue/Equinox
G3=Aveo
G5=Cobalt
G6=Malibu
Vibe=Matrix
the G8 is not, its a Impala SS or Lumina SS in the rest of the world derived from the original Holden Commadore
G3= daewoo
G5=cobalt (which is actually using a dated opel frame)
G6 - prob the most original thing they have
solstice/sky - Opel Speedster which was actually developed by Lotus
Vibe - Toyota Matrix, and also a Toyota engine
The copying has long been commonplace with GM as a whole and its their biggest problem look at even the past
Firebird - Camaro
Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, Buick Regal, I think in the 80s even olds had one based off this
Grand AM - Olds Alero
Sunfire - Cav
GTO - Vauxhall VXR8/ Holden Monaro
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
What's the difference between a Cobalt and a Pursuit besides the badges anyway?
I'm still in shock they would dump Pontiac and keep GMC!?
This is why GM fails at everything, they'd rather dump a good nameplate with wasted potential to keep the most unnecessary and redundant brand in the entire automotive world
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Rodimus Prime wrote:the G8 is not, its a Impala SS or Lumina SS in the rest of the world derived from the original Holden Commadore
So what, Holden does not exist in the US. And its COMMODORE.
Rodimus Prime wrote:G3= daewoo
So what, Daewoo does not exist in the US.
Rodimus Prime wrote:solstice/sky - Opel Speedster which was actually developed by Lotus
False. Solstice/Sky is built on the Kappa platform which shares ZERO with the Opel Speedster, which you are correct was developed by Lotus.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about
the former." - Albert Einstein
there going to keep buick and pontiac outsells buick and there going to keep gmc a full truck brand when no one wants trucks anymore. then i hope GM tanks for makeing so many stupid moves ill trade my G5 in and go somewheres else where they no how to run a business.
silversun01 wrote: there going to keep gmc a full truck brand when no one wants trucks anymore.
I wouldn't say nobody, I just bought my GM truck last September, just depends on where you live. Everybody drives GM trucks around here. Probably doesn't help that they are built here, ha ha.
When I read this crap this morning, I said: I will wait until GM makes an announcement on this.
Sure enough...
GM wrote: Pontiac Statement Re: Media Speculation
Contrary to media speculation, General Motors has not announced any changes to its long-term viability plan or to the future status of any of its brands. GM is continuing to review its restructuring plan to go further and faster and best ensure its future success. Additional information will be released as any decisions are finalized.
So Pontiac fans, we can sleep this weekend, or at least until the near future.
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-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
Ford F-series and Chevy pickups are still the #1 + #2 selling vehicles in the United States. Of course, the next 5-6 are japanese cars, but go figure. If the greeny-rainbows get their way, and regulationlegislationtaxation forces gas prices to $8 per gallon, people will still need trucks. They just won't buy one because a man is supposed to drive a big truck cuz trucks are manly.
The GMC and Chevy trucks roll down the same line. They look nearly identical except for a few trim and interior pieces. Probably very little cost to slap on a different grill, or bolt on a different seat.
Dropping Saturn/Pontiac means you don't have to have 3 different shells for the same Malibu car. Its a smart move, but Its sad to see a nice nameplate go away.
I have to wonder though, if the economy starts booming again, and oil stays relatively low, will Americans again become infatuated with big gas-hogging SUV's again?
Or have we on the "crossover" bandwagon for good.
“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Quote:
I wouldn't say nobody, I just bought my GM truck last September, just depends on where you live. Everybody drives GM trucks around here. Probably doesn't help that they are built here, ha ha.
yea i no that. some people need trucks for everyday life. my dad just bought the new chevy pickup. im saying is they dont need 2 full size trucks. the chevy will do just fine. out of saturn pontiac buick and gmc. you see alot more pontiacs on the road then you do the other brands.
The rumor floating around my local full-line dealership is that GM is going to spend just two or three weeks in an expedited bankruptcy, and be resurrected as ONLY Chevrolet and Cadillac for the NA market. Dealerships without one of those franchises get pruned.
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This whole restructure bs is not involving any common sense at all. They are trying to turn themselves into something the public really has no interest in and are ignoring the people that have always bought GM loyally. You want to survive, start building cars that people want. Nobody wants a @!#$ Aveo. The Volt won't sell either thats going to be a massive failure. The 40k car that nobody can afford and those that can sure as hell wont get a cheap chevy puny sedan when they can have a caddy or a BMW at a lesser cost.
Have your brands be what they always have been
Chevy - Cheap basic reliable affordable cars with the Camaro and Vette as well as sport models of the normal cars bang for the buck, dont make any @!#$ trucks
Pontiac - make it the performance division instead of throwing a name on it, have sporty looking cars slightly more than chevy, no trucks or SUVs steal and rebadge everything you can from holden and opel because that @!#$ is hot, dont degrade it for the us market, give that high end euro sport feel.
GMC - all the trucks
Caddy - Luxury line
Buick - big cars and cater to the old folks, cheap mans caddy but dont throw styling completely in the @!#$ter
sell Saturn, Hummer and Saab for whatever you can get for them
Lastly have each brand with unique vehicles instead of making 3 versions of the same car and give the divisions the freedom that they used to have prior to the 1980s to innovate. (ex the Pontiac V8s of the 70s, Bucks 3.8 turbo engine, olds building the quad 4)
Problem @!#$ solved, theres a car for everyone, theres no overlap
Is it really that @!#$ hard?
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Rodimus Prime wrote:Problem @!#$ solved, theres a car for everyone, theres no overlap
Is it really that @!#$ hard?
I think the change that caused them to throw that logic out the window was when the dealers that only had one or two of the franchises thought they needed to have something for everyone. GM worked out a cookie-cutter lineup so that the siblings wouldn't fight. The models overlapped and became redundant, being unique bacame a gamble, and here we are today.
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Quote:
dont degrade it for the us market, give that high end euro sport feel
This^^
GM/Chevy/Pontiac... they all fail becaue is littlerly looks like they take any luxery or nicer option off the car.
I'll state one.
Projector/ Xenon headlights. Yea there just head lights, but think about it. Xenon lights are the future lighting system and are the best as of now, and we get a crummy halogen system thats outdated, and ineffcient with a huge GAWDY looking reflector headlight?
This is one lowly example of simple euro (most of the time quality) options that are removed and completely kill the car and make it look like "american sh*t".
I hope the companies tank, there horrible at creating even an intersting car, they can't compete price wise or technology wise and have some of the worst idea's that even I, a person who doesn't even work in the auto industry wouldn't make.
" Aint nothin' but a Peanut!"
I just can't get over the thinking over at GM. Dump Pontiac yet keep Buick, hmm that makes a whole lot of sense to me. I can not stand Buick, nothing but cookie cutter boring crap catered to seniors. That brand is so dated and uninspiring, maybe thats just me cause i'm not old enough to be eating dinner at 4pm and staggering around on a plastic hip. I can't think of anything cool to come out of that division since the grand national which was over 20 years ago! I do realize pontiac has not much in the lineup that is an original idea, but it is a brand that is geared more towards the under 60 crowd. I would think GM would want to cater to the younger crowd as they will be buying vehicles for a hell of a lot more years than the 60 plus crowd. I guess thats what chevy is for though. Either way I am so sick and tired of this company and their stupid decisions, its been going on for so many years. As long as old farts continue to run the company, things will never get better. Old farts catering to old farts. I'm going to stop now cause talking gm always gets the blood boiling!
silversun01 wrote:no one wants trucks anymore
Rodimus Prime wrote:Nobody wants a @!#$ Aveo.
Who's going to be the first idiot to say nobody wants a midsize car either?
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
Sadly, I'm not surprised. There's too much redundancy in GMs lineup.
They could easily rebadged the G8 and Vibe as a Chevs and call it a day (since the rest of the cars are GM doppelgangers) .
Personally, I would ditch Pontiac, keep Saturn, and revamp it completely as a scion-fighting brand.
I would ditch Buick too. Nobody says GM can't bring these brands back once they get back on their feet, but for the time being these brands are redundant, and they really should go if GM expects to survive.
[ o ][][][][][][][][ o ] coach built xj ( o \[][][][][][][]/ o ) hid wj
I say bring the solstice and G8 over to Chevy and keep Buick, drop Pontiac. I am still mad they killed of the Grand Prix.
2004 Cavalier. Razzi. (Sold)
1998 Corvette. Some mods.
1992 Typhoon. Lots of mods.
1994 Civic VX 44MPG
Jookycola wrote:I'm still in shock they would dump Pontiac and keep GMC!?
This is why GM fails at everything, they'd rather dump a good nameplate with wasted potential to keep the most unnecessary and redundant brand in the entire automotive world
How many times does it have to be said that GMC is going to be primarily for fleet sales? I swear some of you have Alzheimer's.
2010 Honda Fit LX
Jacob wrote:silversun01 wrote: there going to keep gmc a full truck brand when no one wants trucks anymore.
I wouldn't say nobody, I just bought my GM truck last September, just depends on where you live. Everybody drives GM trucks around here. Probably doesn't help that they are built here, ha ha.
It's not so much nobody wants trucks. We don't need 5 different versions of the SAME truck. GMC is just a brand made up entirely of rebadged Chevy trucks, it makes NO sense to keep the brand. None what so ever.
Cart My Snot wrote:Jookycola wrote:I'm still in shock they would dump Pontiac and keep GMC!?
This is why GM fails at everything, they'd rather dump a good nameplate with wasted potential to keep the most unnecessary and redundant brand in the entire automotive world
How many times does it have to be said that GMC is going to be primarily for fleet sales? I swear some of you have Alzheimer's.
I never heard that? got any links to support that? Even so, why keep GMC alive??? Can't Chevy sell the trucks as fleet just the same? Even if you do have proof, it still makes no sense at all to keep GMC.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
Rodimus Prime wrote:This whole restructure bs is not involving any common sense at all. They are trying to turn themselves into something the public really has no interest in and are ignoring the people that have always bought GM loyally. You want to survive, start building cars that people want. Nobody wants a @!#$ Aveo. The Volt won't sell either thats going to be a massive failure. The 40k car that nobody can afford and those that can sure as hell wont get a cheap chevy puny sedan when they can have a caddy or a BMW at a lesser cost.
Have your brands be what they always have been
Chevy - Cheap basic reliable affordable cars with the Camaro and Vette as well as sport models of the normal cars bang for the buck, dont make any @!#$ trucks
Pontiac - make it the performance division instead of throwing a name on it, have sporty looking cars slightly more than chevy, no trucks or SUVs steal and rebadge everything you can from holden and opel because that @!#$ is hot, dont degrade it for the us market, give that high end euro sport feel.
GMC - all the trucks
Caddy - Luxury line
Buick - big cars and cater to the old folks, cheap mans caddy but dont throw styling completely in the @!#$ter
sell Saturn, Hummer and Saab for whatever you can get for them
Lastly have each brand with unique vehicles instead of making 3 versions of the same car and give the divisions the freedom that they used to have prior to the 1980s to innovate. (ex the Pontiac V8s of the 70s, Bucks 3.8 turbo engine, olds building the quad 4)
Problem @!#$ solved, theres a car for everyone, theres no overlap
Is it really that @!#$ hard?
I've been saying and hoping GM would have done this for years now!!!! The G8 was the start to a BMW fighting brand, and all that was missing was the rest of the friggen line-up.
Personally i think Buick is a great brand, and i am in love with the new Enclave, but that is just ONE vehicle, that could easily replace any of the Chevy suv's as a nicer looking/driving alternative to the Equinox.
Jookycola wrote:why keep GMC alive??? Can't Chevy sell the trucks as fleet just the same? Even if you do have proof, it still makes no sense at all to keep GMC.
I would rather see the name GMC on a truck then Chevy. When I think Chevy I think about cars only. GMC just goes with the name of the company GM.
But I know what you mean, there should only be a couple names, not a whole bunch of re-badged stuff. But then again everybody likes something a little different, and re-badging vehicles gives more options.
Dave wrote:
Rodimus Prime wrote:G3= daewoo
So what, Daewoo does not exist in the US.
That's not true. They do exist in the USA and I had to do an alignment on one a while back.... Major PITA.
i hope they dont go through with this, saturn has been crap since day one. just make pontiac the PURE perfrmance brand from gm ............ im pissed.
maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow....... but some day
