Some here have their heads in the sand about it, but most of y'all are pretty honest. So I ask the question. How would you improve American cars as a whole?

I realize that a) American cars are much cheaper than european cars and b) American cars have made huge strides in the last ten years. But they still have a ways to go. Just take the example of Nissan Versa VS Dodge Caliber. Technically they're extremely similar in size and shape and price. Yet the Nissan is the obvious choice.

One thing I feel is NOT a prerequisite is long term quality. Now, obviously you want trucks, minivans, family sedans and other utilitarian type vehicles to be high quality. Because their primary purpose is to the best value for the money. However, musclecars and sports cars don't have to be that solid. Their goal is to be fast and good looking for the best possible price. Alfa-Romeo has made an entire career of providing cars like that. Or let me put it this way. If you could get a Corvette Z06 for 45,000$ wouldn't you be willing to accept that the engine might conk out after 5 or 6 years? As long as the interior was made of high quality materials and it was fast, who cares?

To me the biggest problem with Detroit is that they purposefully hobble their cars. Remember how the Camaro had the same engine as the Corvette back in the 90's, yet the Corvette still made about 25hp more? GM gave us some BS about the exhaust being different, but we knew damn well that they were making the Camaro less powerful to make the Corvette look better. It's the same with the Mustang right now. The V6 in that car is easily capable of 240hp, yet because the GT is only making 300hp it would look bad if the two were so close in power. If Ford, GM and Chrysler made the best cars that they could, for the price they're selling it, we wouldn't have to convince people to buy domestic. It would be obvious what the best cars would be, yet they're always trying to sucker you into buying the more expensive models. Only in the last few years, in an act of desperation, have they stopped that BS.

Anyway, what do you think American cars should change about themselves?

it doesnt realy matter any more the big three are running out of money to continue just operating.Gm only has little on hand to keep it self afloat. When that happens they will be in chapter 11 after chapter 7 which is liqiudation of assets will probaly follow. So there was no need to post this it over when obama takes office in january he will decide how to divy up the rest of the 700billion if he is going to grant the 25 billion dollar loan to GM,Ford, and dodge
would be there only shot at staying alive durring the credit crunch. So by spring when the dust settles there will be no more American cars at all. So low lives like myself will no longer be able to purchase a econobox that does 14s for 22000 dollars. So lets all comapre notes on how American cars can be made better know that dead and burried.
And for all the people who say that the foriegners who have plants here will build more. Why do they have to keep assembling here theres mexico and canada. They did their PR. Now is the time for them to cut costs make more profits. Say good bye to American Labor ,may be the Media can now attack so more companies now. I hear cat is a pretty good Target. maybe john Dere how about Dell? lets not stop till the USA is a third world nation.

I just thought of the three most glaring examples of Detroit aiming low.

When Ford made the GT in 2003 they engineered the car to have a 550hp 5.4 DOHC Supercharged V8. There's no doubt that this was an amazing car. However, why didn't they use the 6.8 V10? It wouldn't have been THAT hard to extend the engine bay in devellopment and keep the same overall proportions and just put the 5.4 parts on the V10 block. The difference would have been that the GT would have made 715hp instead of 550hp and been the greatest supercar in the world instead of the greatest american one.

Then, take the Viper. Why doesn't Dodge make a 490 cubic inch Hemi V10 or a 588 cubic inch Hemi V12 out of the 392 Hemi block? Wouldn't be that hard and it would certainly make the Viper world class again. The V10 would make a naturally aspirated 630hp and the V12 would make 760hp. Imagine slapping on a Supercharger on that thing? Would make 1000hp and be totally psychotic to drive.

Same with the Corvette. Yes, the ZR1 is absolutely amazing, but why don't they use the 3.7 DOHC L5 head or 4.2 DOHC L6 head from the Colorado/Canyon or Trailblazer and have a 7 liter V10 or 8.4 liter V12. Imagine THAT with a Superchager.

Yeah, all of this would have cost money, but these are cars that are worth a ton of money anyway. Even if they had to sell them for 50,000$ more per car they'd still be competitive in the world market.

They're aiming low, that drives me nuts.

American car companies are being killed by the American car company CEOs mouse. They can blame everyone and everything around them, but in the end they're the ones in charge, they're the ones responsible. They slit their own throats one cut at a time.

Americans are a lot of things but unpatriotic you are not. If American cars were better than Japanese cars, you'd buy them then pat yourselves on the back and slap a bunch of Flag stickers on the things. Am I way off base here?

Americans have tolerated greedy, stupid people in charge for decades now. You can blame liberals, conservatives, rich people, poor people, anyone you want... but this isn't because of one single thing. It's because of a million different factors that are destroying America. Your leaders don't lose money when times like this happen. The CEOs of GM, Chrysler and Ford are making tons of money off the downfall of their companies. They don't care. Like butchers, they waste no part of the animal. They can enrich themselves with failure just as easily as with success.

These rich people are laughing at you right now. Laughing. Get it? Not only don't they care, they're thinking up ways of screwing you even more, of finding ways to squeeze every last bit of money from you before you have none left to squeeze. They've destroyed your ability to own your own homes and soon they'll restrict your movement by destroying your ability to own your personal cars. These guys who own car companies are going to invest in cab, bus and train companies. They want to own you in every way, and if they own your homes and they own your cars, they'll do just that.

This has been going on for centuries. Look at school. Ever notice that school is organized like a factory? You show up, do some boring stuff for a few hours, go out on break when a bell rings, come back and do more boring stuff, bell rings, go out to lunch for thirty minutes, more boring stuff... roughly from 8 to 4. Just like a factory. I'm not one for conspiracy theories but don't you feel like this is almost like acclimatization?

It's already too late because the damage to their image is done. They do not have the time or money to "convince" us that their products are up to par. I hate to admit it because I love my solstice GXP and even my eco cavalier, but all the numbers say they are done for, and all the press they are getting for being failures is not good either.

One of the biggest things GM did to improve was to bring european and aussie platforms here. Has anyone driven a saturn astra? It's qualtity and feel are remarkable, definately not typical GM. Same goes for the pontiac G8. They also need to advertise that these are not GM's "american" platforms - entice people with the european qualtiy of these platforms and maybe they will try them out, but think about what saturn meant to you in the 90's and see if that makes you want one. They were total @!#$ boxes in the 90's. Same goes for pontiac. Take the 92-95 grand am (Quad 4 SOHC and DOHC). They ate head gaskets every 30k miles. Now we have the G6 which is a global platform sporting a quality powerplant and a much better interior feel.

In terms of reliability, the powerplants are already up to par. The ecotec line is nothing short of world class. My brother used to be a service tech at a GM dealer, and he said they almost never fail. After like 200k the timing chain might go, or someone hits something and cracks the oil pan. Its not like the 90's...

Another thing GM could have done (its way too late now) is say EFF YOU to the unions. There are enough people that know how to turn a bolt that they do not need "collective bargaining agreements" (read as anal rapage). Paying someone 30$/hr to turn a bolt and funding their retirment is excessive.

Still another thing GM could have done is stir up the management. CEO's make their decisions for their best interest, not the companies or the consumers. As long as they get paid for a couple years, they're sitting pretty, and nothing else matters to them. Instead, pay them for results, give them a vested interest in the company's performance. That goes for all industries by the way.

Have a nice day

Consolidate the marques, shut down redundant dealerships, and focus on development and quality control for just one or two product lines. People have been programmed to believe each arm of GM is appropriate to a certain crowd and occasion, with the idea that this will boost sales by catching every customer prospect. This needs to be re-evaluated.

Take one of GM's latest offerings: The Buick Enclave. Also known as the GMC Acadia. Or the Chevrolet Traverse. Or the Saturn Outlook. They all share the GM Lambda platform, so this must be a cost savings in the long run, right? Think of the savings on development! Just swap some body panels and trim differences. Never mind that each of these could be at a dealership a stones-throw away from the others. The infrastructure saturation is excessive. Maybe GM should run a promotion to buy one, get the other three free, just so you can change them each day like socks.

To over-generalize:

GMCs are trucks.
Chevrolets are basic cars, plus redundant trucks.
Pontiacs are Chevrolet cars superficially marketed to look enthusiast-oriented.
Cadillacs are the best plastic-dashboard luxury money can buy, with an odd truck that accidentally appealed to rappers.
Buicks are for people who will settle for something that isn't quite the best of anything.
Hummers are the bastardization of AMG's military vehicle license and GM's ability to bolt random stuff to their truck chassis and call it progress.
Saturn started as a subsidiary making import-fighting crap boxes, but now thinks it deserves a seat at the big-people's table.
Saab is the Swedish half-brother that nobody talks to.
Daewoo: if it's a GM car and it's small and economical, you're probably in one whether you know it or not.
Vauxhall, Holden, Opel: Exchange students that get mugged for pocket money and car designs.

Can anyone see some room for clean-up here?




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well you can start by buying new American cars and trucks

Ask alot of ppl who are screaming the sky is falling and are PRO american what their next car will be........ Import.


__________________________________________________________________

Where I work: HP
What I take for Memory and Focus: Focus Fast

my ideas of what GM should do.

First off, as geeky said, stop selling 1 platform under every badge.

Secondly give each division (chevy, pontiac, gmc, ..etc) a aspect about cars to be known for.
i think it should go like this.

Chevy (family cars, some performance) aveo,cruz (when it comes out) , sky, malibu, impala, mini vans, work vans, camaro, corvette (notice no cobalt or trucks)

Pontiac (FUN cars) G5, G6, G8, solstice

GMC (trucks) if its a truck or SUV it goes in here. no repeats all labeled as gmc tho.

Cadillac (luxury performace) AS IS!!!!

Those are the only 4 division GM should go on with, consentrate on quality, and keeping up with current trends.

Hummer- the name to be sold off. Best seller to be labeled a GMC

Buick- just put to rest for future use.

Saturn- name to be put to rest, sky goes to chevy

Saab- i honeslty could think of what to do with them, sell off or keep as is.

As for dealerships, all dealer ships to carry all 4 divisions. Dealers not aloud within certain radius of each other.

Plain and simple they need to listen more to what the customers want!!!

They need to use the enthusiast forums as a tool to find out what people like and don't like.

For example:
After having driven a 07cobaltSS sc all weekend I can honestly say the interior is far from cheap or crappy quality. The only interior part I did not like was the very blan center section of the dash. The backseat sucked getting into as there was no quick release for the seat to slide forward. You had to manually move the seat back and the manually slide the seat forward so you lost your seat position setting everytime. That gets old in a hurry!

My biggest cobalt complaint is I hate the exterior styling. The high trunk line and huge flat rear bumper is beyond fugly. The trunk is actually huge but the opening sucks! It is so small slipping the 17" tire off my car in the trunk was difficult. The rest of the exterior looks very blan and base model cobalt like except the front and rear lip kit which are very agressive but look out of place on a otherwise blan body. The sideskirts don't match the rest of the lip kit as they are very blan but it matches the rest of the blan exterior.

IMO GM has to many penny pinching, number crunchers who don't understand the enthusiast so it is no wonder they F up what could be a perfect car. Or maybe they just neglect the sport compact class. Or maybe they start on this stupid kick of adding all this power this and retaredly expensive stereo that an enthusiast would rip out to go aftermarket anyway in hopes of selling the car for a higher price therefore pricing it just out of range of the people who would actually buy it. Maybe it is a little bit of all of the above.

The only place I see exterior where they went right was the turbo balts rims. At least they got the go fast part right.

I don't think I am the only one who misses the look of the late 80's early 90's Cavalier Z24 and Daytona Shelby. Those cars looked like something special. Not so much the specific look just that they were night and day different than their base model bretheren lookswise. Dodge screwed up just as bad lookswise on the srt-4. Hell you can't even get it in a 2 door.

This really bothers me! GM is in a desperate time. IMO mainly because of their own failures the biggest of which is being out of touch with the customer or in this case enthusiast. And because of it they need our loyalty now more than ever. I really want to give it them! I wan't to buy american! While I absolutly love mechanically the Cobalt even more so the turbo one. I can't bring myself to buy a car that I hate the look of! Don't get me wrong I know you can't please everyone but this looks like a half ass attempt (and that is being generous) at even trying to please. IMO it looks like a pile of dog@!#$ compared to a G35 coupe.

In conclusion my next car is going to be a used EVO. The AWD will be nice but would not alone have made me choose it used over a brand new balt SS/TC. They are both about the same price which was a plus for the balt since I could have it from day 1 for the same price as a previuosly abused EVO. I choose the EVO becuase it is aparent Mitsubishi caters more to the enthusiast. You don't even want to talk aftermarket between the two. The EVO is only 7 out of 10 in my book lookswise. (A G35 coupe would be a 10 and a cobalt a 2 and my cav would be an 7)





Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, November 20, 2008 12:55 PM


FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

nasty04cav wrote:
Pontiac (FUN cars)G5, G6, G8, solstice

Here is the problem. Those cars esp. the loaded SS models should have great looks instead they look almost identical to their fugly base model counterparts. Very blan, very plain styling = not exciting

GM needs to get the point that just throwing on boring white SS badges and ever so slightly changed fugly bumpers does not cut it!!!!!

In conclusion. F GM



FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

Quote:

my ideas of what GM should do.

First off, as geeky said, stop selling 1 platform under every badge.

Secondly give each division (chevy, pontiac, gmc, ..etc) a aspect about cars to be known for.
i think it should go like this.

Chevy (family cars, some performance) aveo,cruz (when it comes out) , malibu, impala, mini vans, corvette (notice no cobalt or trucks) elimiate the sky yes its nice but it doesn't sell well.

Pontiac (FUN cars) G5, G6, G8, solstice Add camaro

GMC (trucks) if its a truck or SUV it goes in here. no repeats all labeled as gmc tho. Add work vans

Cadillac (luxury performace) AS IS!!!! Needs to remove trucks Suv's ok but no trucks.

Those are the only 4 division GM should go on with, consentrate on quality, and keeping up with current trends.

Hummer- the name to be sold off. Best seller to be labeled a GMC Eliminate the brand all together no survivers

Buick- just put to rest for future use. Discontinued in the US needs to continue sales in china though they love them

Saturn- name to be put to rest, Yup

Saab- i honeslty could think of what to do with them, sell off or keep as is. Should be comined with pointiac/

As for dealerships, all dealer ships to carry all 4 divisions. Dealers not aloud within certain radius of each other.

also pointiac needs an evo/sti fighter. simple 4 cyclinder turbo awd 4 door In an agressive body style. Use camaro styling plus a LNF powertrain plus a cobalt 4door plus sabs Xwd and they have a Gm fighter.

NightmaresCavy wrote:

Quote:

my ideas of what GM should do.

First off, as geeky said, stop selling 1 platform under every badge.

Secondly give each division (chevy, pontiac, gmc, ..etc) a aspect about cars to be known for.
i think it should go like this.

Chevy (family cars, some performance) aveo,cruz (when it comes out) , malibu, impala, mini vans, corvette (notice no cobalt or trucks) elimiate the sky yes its nice but it doesn't sell well.

Pontiac (FUN cars) G5, G6, G8, solstice Add camaro, GTO, ASTRA

GMC (trucks) if its a truck or SUV it goes in here. no repeats all labeled as gmc tho. Add work vans

Cadillac (luxury performace) AS IS!!!! Needs to remove trucks Suv's ok but no trucks.

Those are the only 4 division GM should go on with, consentrate on quality, and keeping up with current trends.

Hummer- the name to be sold off. Best seller to be labeled a GMC Eliminate the brand all together no survivers

Buick- just put to rest for future use. Discontinued in the US needs to continue sales in china though they love them

Saturn- name to be put to rest, Yup

Saab- i honeslty could think of what to do with them, sell off or keep as is. Should be comined with pointiac/

As for dealerships, all dealer ships to carry all 4 divisions. Dealers not aloud within certain radius of each other.

Added a little more

I would also have a NEW GTO back into Pontiac, and for you turbo evo/sti fighter.... the astra

I would just redisign the bumpers and headlights and rename it

null

NightmaresCavy wrote:also pointiac needs an evo/sti fighter. simple 4 cyclinder turbo awd 4 door In an agressive body style. Use camaro styling plus a LNF powertrain plus a cobalt 4door plus sabs Xwd and they have a Gm fighter.

Here's my problem with that idea - the evo X and latest STI are in the 40k price range, which i find rediculous, but thats another post. Suppose GM does make a car like you suggest above and even prices it competitively around 34-36k - would your really buy it when the sti and evo are right there?

I just cannot see GM taking any of that market share from the likes of the evo and sti crowd. It may be well deserved, but they would think it such a huge step down...

I know from experience that the LNF has all the balls necessary to take on both of those cars, but you're gonna have a tough time convincing a new buyer of that on top of "settling for GM quality"

It's the fact is that gm needs to do that. Here is 2 vehicles that have a power full niche with people that love them. if gm can shove it self into this neich people are going to jump on it. People these days want 4wd carrs at a good price subbie has a piece of the market that us people up north want them. Gm needs to step up to the plate and hit a homer in every category.

oldskool wrote:

NightmaresCavy wrote:also pointiac needs an evo/sti fighter. simple 4 cyclinder turbo awd 4 door In an agressive body style. Use camaro styling plus a LNF powertrain plus a cobalt 4door plus sabs Xwd and they have a Gm fighter.

Here's my problem with that idea - the evo X and latest STI are in the 40k price range, which i find rediculous, but thats another post. Suppose GM does make a car like you suggest above and even prices it competitively around 34-36k - would your really buy it when the sti and evo are right there?

I just cannot see GM taking any of that market share from the likes of the evo and sti crowd. It may be well deserved, but they would think it such a huge step down...

I know from experience that the LNF has all the balls necessary to take on both of those cars, but you're gonna have a tough time convincing a new buyer of that on top of "settling for GM quality"

What if GM redid the 08 saab 9-3 as a pontiac performance car. Then would u buy it? people buy the 9-3 now for over 40k. SO you take off all the extras that a tuner wouldnt care about such as 6 jet headlight washers, rear fog lights.. etc to bring the price down. now you have a awd 280hp turbo car to compete.

For those of you that are saying Chevrolet should stop selling trucks, are you also saying that the Silverado nameplate should be axed all together too? I mean it's one of those things like Mustang, Corolla, and few other nameplates that has been around as long as I can remember. I personally wouldn't want the Silverado name to go away or go to another within the company.

James wrote:For those of you that are saying Chevrolet should stop selling trucks, are you also saying that the Silverado nameplate should be axed all together too? I mean it's one of those things like Mustang, Corolla, and few other nameplates that has been around as long as I can remember. I personally wouldn't want the Silverado name to go away or go to another within the company.

That's exactly what I'd propose. The only reason for both a Silverado and a Sierra is to satisfy both dealership franchises. Name sentimentality didn't save Oldsmobile, so there are limits to everything.




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I don't think reorganization will help. I don't think new models will help or cutting old models. What American companies need to focus on now is to stop holding back and build cars as good and as sophisticated as they can. We know they can, and now is the time to whip their d**ks out and show the world how big they are instead of bragging about it.

I've noticed that even the smartest car guys, who ought to know better, are quick to forgive how shoddy American cars sometimes can be. I walked by an Oldsmobile Aurora today and even after over ten years it still looks as modern and high quality as anything from the imports. If GM had started making more cars like that back then it wouldn't be in this mess today. GM stopped making the Aurora because they were afraid it'd steal sales from Cadillac. It's a ridiculous attitude and does nothing to help.

What the American companies need to do is look at imports and go "I'll do better!". If a Honda Civic does 140hp in base trim, then the Cobalt should offer 160hp and better fuel mileage. If the Honda has a 6 speed manual, then the Cobalt should have a 6 speed automatic with paddle shifters. If the Honda offers comfortable seats, the Cobalt should offer comfortable leather seats, along with an interior designed by Armani. The Camaro, Malibu, Corvette ZR1 and Cobalt SS are all steps in the right direction, but it's obvious that their creation was motivated by fear and desperation, not the desire to please the public. It's a disgrace that a car like the Aveo doesn't offer better fuel mileage than a Cobalt or better power or better basic equipment. Why even offer the damn thing if it doesn't have a reason to exist? Yes, it's very cute and small, but a Cobalt is a better bargain. So GM is literally offering a car that competes against one of it's own cars. Brilliant.

Personally, I think that if they can't give us their best, then maybe they should die off. What's the use?

It's way too late to do anything now.. My last 2 cars were GM.. The cavalier was rusted out and broken down within the first 2 years that I bought it. I did all the regular maintenance, and washed it all the time. The Saturn Ion.. Well, it's a Saturn.. I dunno what I was thinking or what drugs I was on when I bought that POS of a car. I will give props to the ecotec engine though, it's never let me down once. But the car rattle and squeaks so bad, it's horrible. The sway bar bushings have been replaced 4 times in the 3 years that I've owned it, and they're shot again. Sucks. So I went over to Honda, bought a 2006 Civic LX. It has more miles than the Saturn, mostly cause I can't stand to drive the Saturn, so it just sits there. The civic has no squeeks or rattles, and I get about 160KM's more to a tank of gas, same size tanks in both cars. I-vtec is a wonderful thing. So even if GM somehow pulls through this, I'll never buy a GM again.

Quote:

Watching you parade around my bedroom in a thong was a little like watching sea lions mate.

Knoxfire wrote:GM stopped making the Aurora because they were afraid it'd steal sales from Cadillac. It's a ridiculous attitude and does nothing to help.

Knoxfire wrote:It's a disgrace that a car like the Aveo doesn't offer better fuel mileage than a Cobalt or better power or better basic equipment. Why even offer the damn thing if it doesn't have a reason to exist? Yes, it's very cute and small, but a Cobalt is a better bargain. So GM is literally offering a car that competes against one of it's own cars. Brilliant.

Is it just me, or did you manage to contradict yourself in the space of a paragraph.




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nasty04cav wrote:

What if GM redid the 08 saab 9-3 as a pontiac performance car. Then would u buy it? people buy the 9-3 now for over 40k. SO you take off all the extras that a tuner wouldnt care about such as 6 jet headlight washers, rear fog lights.. etc to bring the price down. now you have a awd 280hp turbo car to compete.

You already have a watered down 9-3, its not AWD but it does have a Pontiac badge on it. The Aura, Malibu, and G6 are the same underpinings as the 9-3.

Knoxfire wrote:I don't think reorganization will help. I don't think new models will help or cutting old models. What American companies need to focus on now is to stop holding back and build cars as good and as sophisticated as they can. We know they can, and now is the time to whip their d**ks out and show the world how big they are instead of bragging about it.

I've noticed that even the smartest car guys, who ought to know better, are quick to forgive how shoddy American cars sometimes can be. I walked by an Oldsmobile Aurora today and even after over ten years it still looks as modern and high quality as anything from the imports. If GM had started making more cars like that back then it wouldn't be in this mess today. GM stopped making the Aurora because they were afraid it'd steal sales from Cadillac. It's a ridiculous attitude and does nothing to help.

What the American companies need to do is look at imports and go "I'll do better!". If a Honda Civic does 140hp in base trim, then the Cobalt should offer 160hp and better fuel mileage. If the Honda has a 6 speed manual, then the Cobalt should have a 6 speed automatic with paddle shifters. If the Honda offers comfortable seats, the Cobalt should offer comfortable leather seats, along with an interior designed by Armani. The Camaro, Malibu, Corvette ZR1 and Cobalt SS are all steps in the right direction, but it's obvious that their creation was motivated by fear and desperation, not the desire to please the public. It's a disgrace that a car like the Aveo doesn't offer better fuel mileage than a Cobalt or better power or better basic equipment. Why even offer the damn thing if it doesn't have a reason to exist? Yes, it's very cute and small, but a Cobalt is a better bargain. So GM is literally offering a car that competes against one of it's own cars. Brilliant.

Personally, I think that if they can't give us their best, then maybe they should die off. What's the use?

well jeez, i guess you should be running GM then eh?

..you keep ranting about how 'more hp equals a better car' but as much as I want to agree, it isn't true.

you're first few replies were commenting on how the supercars of the GM stable could be improved with V10 engines or whatever... that isn't what undermined the company.

their entry and mid range vehicles constantly were made with inferior materials, ugly designs, crappy suspension, crappy interiors, vehicles are overpriced, etc.
GM in particular over saturates the market for a particular class of car, which increases costs yet the profit margin would remain the same... how does that make sense?

example:
Chevy Cobalt
Pontiac G5

..why? they hardly look ANY DIFFERENT AT ALL. The cavalier and sunfire at least had different quarter panels and fenders.. the G5 only has the difference of taillights and the front bumper... its ridiculous.

example:
Pontiac Solstice
Saturn Sky

again.. simple cosmetic differences, interior differences, but overall its the same god damn car. why manufacture 2 when you could just manufacture one? you have 2 cars competing against each other when they're on the same team..


GM has too many makes that have lost their brand differentiation from one another. Pontiac crossovers? Pontiac was supposed to be the GM "performance" division.
GM has too many models that aren't updated enough. A different generation of (fill in blank) every 10 years? The J-body was relatively unchanged for almost 20 years? Where was the cobalt 8 years ago when chevy really needed it?

Import vehicles tend to see a 3 year gap inbetween revamps and TRUE upgrades.. not the GM 'facelift' front bumper/rear bumper change that happens every 5 years, and model revamps every 10 years.

putting more cylinders in a car doesn't make it more appealing to buyers. GM has started to rectify the problem, but I think its too little too late..

Ok, personally I think that GM needs to really sit back and reevaluate their strategies. What I mean by that is number one as many b4 me already stated, brand rebadging stop it...Its embarrassing. Why do we need 4 divisions with the same car? No, answer??? Figured not. Look at what the competition is doing, why are they successful, what can we do to not meet that standard but eclipse it. Imagine.. an AWD Malibu, a performance version coupe based Malibu(Chevelle). I work for Ford dealership and the AWD Fusion is probably one of the most surprising rides that I have encountered in a while out of a true family car. We have no true Accord coupe type vehicle, why would we not make this happen. Excuse me there is the G6 coupe, but I hold that for a different class to match that car up with. Caddy seems to be doing well with what they have to offer, Buick really isnt a factor to me with only 2 cars and a re badge. Pontiac, which I love dearly is disappointing. Ok, for example why not have the G5 receive the 2.0DI 260hp powertrain and be called the G5 GXP and stick the Cobalt with the 2.0 Supercharged engine that it originally was debuted with. If Pontiac is to be your performance division then make it act like one. It makes no sense. I can go way further with this, but Im just starting to drink and I'd like to finish, but I will keep an eye on this post.


Today we plan for the future, tomorrow we make history.

DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:

well jeez, i guess you should be running GM then eh?

..you keep ranting about how 'more hp equals a better car' but as much as I want to agree, it isn't true.

Uhh... actually I kinda very clearly said that I think refinement and sophistication is what the big three should aim at. "Make the best car you can." HP is just one aspect of that. By now American car manufacturers have managed to screw up their reputation to such an extent that the only way they can redeem themselves is to be better in ever way. More HP, more MPG, more refinement. That's why I mentionned that if a Civic has a nice interior, that the Cobalt should have a nice leather interior styled by Armani. Go the distance, sweat the details and always offer a better product than your competitors. The problem with domestics is that their goal is always to be slightly not as good as the competition. They aim low and achieve low. I talked about V10s and V12s because why offer a supercar if it isn't going to have massive power? Again what the domestics did was look at Ferraris and go "Well... those cars have got 500hp, so our car should have that too." They SHOULDN'T do that. They should crush the competition. They should go "This is how you do it Mr. Ferrari..." and embarrass the other companies.

Why can't American cars be the best in the world? Why do they have to be underachievers?

Geeky wrote:

Knoxfire wrote:GM stopped making the Aurora because they were afraid it'd steal sales from Cadillac. It's a ridiculous attitude and does nothing to help.

Knoxfire wrote:It's a disgrace that a car like the Aveo doesn't offer better fuel mileage than a Cobalt or better power or better basic equipment. Why even offer the damn thing if it doesn't have a reason to exist? Yes, it's very cute and small, but a Cobalt is a better bargain. So GM is literally offering a car that competes against one of it's own cars. Brilliant.

Is it just me, or did you manage to contradict yourself in the space of a paragraph.

I should have chosen my words better. What I should have said is that the problem with the Aveo is that it does everything worse than the larger, roomier, more powerful, yet only slightly more expensive Cobalt. I will defend my comments about the Aurora though because the Aurora wasn't a threat to the Cadillac STS at the time, but executives got nervous about offering a good car and canned it.