So yesterday at work the second half of the day was slow and we spent some time sitting around talking about cars.... mainly the WTF were you thinking type stuff car companies do.
So lets get the debate going over here...
First of all VW... (seeing as thats who we work for thats a big topic)
In all other parts of the world they have a small car getting crazy mileage.... but not here. Why is it VW has yet to offer a cheap car? They had those comercials a while back 3 VW's under $17,000?! Big @!#$ deal, you could buy the value package cav for $9999, the Aveo is cheap as hell, you could buy a Yaris, Honda has something to offer..... just about everyone has a cheap entry level, yet VW still hasn't brought out an budget buy. VW has the reputation for being expensive to maintain.... you know how they are trying to brake that? VW is gonna pay for all the maintenance for 3 years/30K.... which is a @!#$ joke.... When the customer was paying the bill it was oil changes every 5000 miles, there was a 10K, 20K, and 30K service, brake fluid gets flushed every 2 years regardless of mileage, and coolant every 3 years. Now that VW is paying the bill your maintenance for the first 30K is now 3 oil changes and nothing else. You get the reputation of being expensive to maintain so you just stop maintaining them? There already enough problems with trying to make 4 1/2 qts of oil last through the 5K oil change interval but now you want it to last 10K when you say burning 1 qt every 1000 miles is normal. And finally the the GTI, VW's tuner car, the original hot hatch, the direct injection turbo charged intercooled, 2.0 liter with variable length intake runners blah blah blah putting out a whopping 200 hp.... thats pathetic! GM has an engine that sounds oddly similar thats at 260 hp, when Chevy makes you look bad you know you suck. Hell thats right on par with the RSX's a N/A regular fuel injection v-tec motor. Not impressed at all.
Then we go to Chevy....
The new Camaro, that whole situation is a joke, its not even out yet and the car is already getting played out.... At one point I was convinced I was going to buy one. I could afford it and I wanted one so bad, the problem is its been a concept in the works for so @!#$ long its lost its appeal to me. By the time you can actually buy it its gonna feel like they should be coming out with the next generation already. Everyone knows the car, its been a star of a movie, you can buy countless posters of it, models, remote control cars, its in video games, its on hats and t-shirts, its all over the internet, its old news. Ford started the retro thing a while back with the Thunderbird, they saw the potential and ran with it.... hence the new Mustang. Chrysler showed some internet with the PT Cruiser, then bringing back the Charger name, and then moved up to the new Challenger, even offering a non street legal race ready package (which I guess pulled a low 11 stock in Denver... easily a 10 second car at see level for relatively cheap) and what does GM do... flash around a beautiful retro style Camaro for half a decade while offering nothing more then a HHR in terms of retro styling... nice job keeping up with the times. Even in the sport compact segment, everyone had something, but Chevy had the LS Sport Cavalier? They finally came out with the Cobalt with the LSJ but at that time is pretty much to little to late. GM tends to design there future to top what already available right now, do they not realize everyone else is moving forward and they are just trying to play catch up?
Ford...
All I really want to know is why the @!#$ did you stop the Ford Lightning? If you wanted a performance truck the Lightning didn't just win the market it WAS the market. Yes dodge had the SRT-10 but when your cost was getting up near a Viper that didn't seem to really take off. The lightning was in a class of its own... that doesn't mean you discontinue it! The new Mustang, theres no need for 435 different versions of the same car because they have different sticker packages, but at the same time if it gets people to buy because they think they are getting something special then bravo for the fooling the masses and selling like hot cakes.
Trucks in general...
Nowadays if you but brand loyalty aside and take an unbiased look at whats the available the import trucks are the best choices. Back in the day the import trucks were a joke, thinks like the VW rabbit pick up.... a tiny N/A motor FWD truck, the old Mazda pick ups were never really taken seriously.... not you got the Toyota offering whats generally perceived as the best truck on the market. The imports get stronger so what do the domestics do.... stupid crap like the Lincoln Blackwood. What used to be a domestic only market is now domestics trying to keep up using brand loyalty/American pride to keep things going.
And now I'm hungry so I'm gonna stop here for now. (btw I didn't proofread this, now whining about grammar or spelling)
anyways, add, discuss, debate, rant, insult, whatever.....
I agree with everything said except the trucks. Unless you are just talking about full size trucks I have to disagree. Back in the day the Nissan pickup truck completely owned the S10. It would out last 3 S10's. The only reason the S10 or the ranger even sold instead of a Toyota Pickup or a Nissan was because back then people were actually brand loyal.
That's my only thing I have to add. I couldn't have said anything else better.
For the most part i agree with you....everything except for the trucks...
Google killing a killing a toyota hilux , no american brand would stand like that
I agree entierly about the Camaro. I'm sick of death of seeing it or hearing about it. That thing has been at the auto show since 2005 (the year it debuted and i saw it) and here we are in 08 and it still isn't out yet and is slated for 2010?! WTF are they waiting for?? The Challenger is already out and that was supposed to be its competition. Its not much competition when the Challenger is going to sell ridiculously and have all its models out by the time GM gets off its ass and actually releases the damn thing.
Darkstars wrote:The new Mustang, theres no need for 435 different versions of the same car because they have different sticker packages, but at the same time if it gets people to buy because they think they are getting something special then bravo for the fooling the masses and selling like hot cakes.
I enjoyed all, but this really touched me.
I have to agree about the Camaro statement, when I saw my first Challenger I was excited, hell when I saw a G8 with my eyes I got a antsy, but I have a feeling when I see the Camaro in person I will just feel like its been out forever because I have been seeing it everywhere already. Every time I see it it loses a little bit of its appeal to me, even though I am sure its an amazing clue. The real question is how many Mustangs, Chargers and Challengers are being sold to owners who would of rather purchased a Camaro, have it only been available to them. That blows my mind how the big wigs of GM didnt realize this and hurry up and get the damn car to the lot, atleast in front of the challenger.
Cost and choices is why the ford dodge and GM are the better choice.
30,000 dollars will get a diesel and 20,000 will you get a Work truck with a towing package.
The base v6 camaro has 296 horses i realy don't know what your bitching about
I would buy the cobalt over ther aveo if i wasn't a Gm fan boy i would buy the Vw over a yaris i mean the rabbits cute
the yaris is ugly.Hell i would buy it over the base cobalt. Plain simple if you don't know why the pick up market then you have not priced them ou
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/toyota/tundra/100948414/options.html?action=1&x=107&y=21
thats just a base truck
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/chevrolet/silverado1500/100911060/options.html
thats a base "work truck" so after pick the options you need and the options you can live with out
now if that would be the 4wd tundra with all the bells ands whistles you would be able to buy
some thing with a cummins, duramax, or powerstroke
also the Rams look great the Ford for next year has no V6 just a base V8. and on top of all that half tons will have a diesel option .
I agree with you to a point...
in terms of work trucks and fleet vehicles the domestics will continue to rein supreme.
But keep in mind half the people that buy a truck don't need a truck, they want a truck, and they are starting to go import.
Trucks: Brand loyalty aside, you're not getting anything better with a Toyota nor a Nissan.
Realistically, if you work with your truck, you're not really looking at other models outside the big 3 mainly due to the fact that Nissan/Toyota are not perceived as being as rugged as the domestics, and on top of that, they're not as high up on the customizability (if that's a word) list. Couple that with the fact that GM/Ford/Chrysler have SERIOUS price incentives, and their models start off at a lower price and have a lot more options (plus, UAW/CAW LOVE union built trucks for fleet buying) it's not hard to see why the trucks are more in the ballpark of Domestic. (Bare in mind, I'm talking combined sales, most truck sales ads and literature focus on individual sales).
http://www.automotive.com/2009/12/chevrolet/silverado/compare/index.html Look at that and tell me where domestics aren't at least competitive in every category.
As far as VW and other German marques: They haven't got the same import tax breaks that the Japanese/Korean makers have leveraged...
Camaro: I wanted one until I figured out I was going to be waiting waaaaaay too long. On top of that, I'm still pissed the F body was clipped off by bean counters.
Well.. the Titan is going the way of the dodo when it comes to in house development, as they are going to be outsourcing to Dodge. AND to be quite honest, it will take YEARS for Toyota to crack the market open really. If they keep up their game, expect a another huge market shift.
My Cav
I give up...
i'm buying a VW those people love trees, so they should love eachother too... "Andy"
I will throw my two cents in here on the small trucks segment.I bought my 1987 mazda b2200 cabplus new and still own it to this day with 187,000 on it.It has been nothing short of great.I would not trade or sell this truck it's just my nich.I have done all the work on it and did rebuild the trans(bearings) but other than that norm wear.Has orig paint (clean freak) I lost count of waxing it so many times,but regardless mazda made a better small truck than gm,ford,mitsub,(toyota,nissan umm) but the 86-93 mazdas were made by mazda and solid,reliable and had some pretty good options.Small truck segment with a4 clydr today is gone compared to the late 80s early 90s.Mine still gets 21 city29 hwy i am not complaining for sure.
Short Hand wrote:Well.. the Titan is going the way of the dodo when it comes to in house development, as they are going to be outsourcing to Dodge. AND to be quite honest, it will take YEARS for Toyota to crack the market open really. If they keep up their game, expect a another huge market shift.
That's a very BIG if. GM's been cracking the whip on truck development to compete with everyone, and the only reason they didn't take truck of the year for 2008 (JD Power) is because the 2008 is just an iteration of 2007 IIRC.
In the Imports VS Domestics debate for work trucks, Domestics win simply because they are rugged in ways that Imports aren't. Yes, they may break more often, but a) they'll keep going even after they're broke and b) even if they do completely break it'll cost 10$ to fix. Imports simply cannot do that. A Toyota Tundra is much smoother and carlike and has better initial quality. Nothing rattles, everything inside the cab is made of high quality stuff, ect... but who cares? When you actually want to use your truck you don't need it to be smooth, you don't need it to be carlike, you need it to keep running even if it's half dead. The Euro/Japan Toyota Hilux could do that, but not the crappy Tacoma. It's simply not as strong.
in the early 90s GM had some cool stuff, the typhoon/cyclone, W41 grand am/ beretta, SS truck. lumina z34. some decent cars for its time. the SS badge lately has been used the wrong way on some cars.I agree, GM has been late. Like when dodge came out with the SRT4, GM should have been right there with their turbo ecotec 4 door saying screw you. now it comes out and it is a nice car, but 4-5 years later. ford= i like the mustang, but way too many options and no lightning truck isnt good. challenger. i seen one, caught my eye, but it just doesnt do it for me. same with the camaro, kind of like i seen it before.I think VW should make some small bare bones diesel car and sell it cheap.
