The "truth" about the GT-R and the Ring - Other Cars Forum

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The "truth" about the GT-R and the Ring
Thursday, May 22, 2008 8:01 PM
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-truth-about-the-nissan-gt-r-and-the-nurburgring-lap-record/

Quote:

I agree with TTAC reviewer Stephan Wilkinson : the new Nissan GT-R is the old Honda NSX. Once people actually start driving Nissan’s “everyday supercar”– as opposed to simply jumping on the hype bandwagon and bench racing numbers supplied by Nissan– they’ll appreciate the parallel. Although I'm still looking forward to my first hands-on experience with the GT-R, the reality of the car’s true nature and importance in automotive history is right under the fan-boys’ noses.

The GT-R allegedly 'outperforms' thoroughbred supercars at a fraction of the price. Yes, but what price? The sticker price, or the in-your-garage price? Considering the hype surrounding the car and the limited production numbers, it will be years before a single new $70k GT-R will be sold for under $100k. At the moment, comparing the Nissan to say, a Corvette Z06, obfuscates the truth. But what the Hell…

No small part of the current GT-R lovefest can be attributed to the car’s 7:38 Nürburgring lap time. As TTAC has pointed out, there are real questions about the Green Hellmobile’s qualifications for the title “second fastest production car around the ‘Ring.” The GT-R's suspension was modified from the current Japanese production model, supposedly to reflect the American and European spec. Supposedly. Will anyone get a chance to compare the fabled ‘Ring runner and a final production car? I doubt it.

Meanwhile, the YouTube video of the Nissan’s “historic run” clearly shows that the GT-R had a flying start. All other manufacturers testing at the ‘Ring use standing starts for published lap times. The video also proves that the car's lap time was not measured at the exact same location (start and stop). Take these two factors into account, and the 7:40 claim seems highly dubious.

The icing on the cake: GT-R chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno’s subsequent admission from that "We used cut slick tyres." If that doesn’t cancel their claim, nothing does.

In fact, a regular Corvette Z06 would probably beat the GT-R on the Nürburgring. When Road & Track tested the GT-R against the Z06 on a track much smaller than the ‘Ring, they concluded that the GT-R was fast in the corners, but they didn't shed a whole lot of light on how the GT-R performed on the straights. Although the ‘Ring has an enormous amount of corners, it also has some of the longest straight-aways in the world.

In Road & Track’s technical comparo, the GT-R was just as fast to 60mph as the Z06 (despite being less powerful). What many have over-looked is the trap speed at the end of the 1/4 mile. The Z06 is about seven mph faster than the GT-R. When you look at the graph that accompanies these numbers, the GT-R’s AWD system gave it a clear advantage– but only at the start. Applied to the Green Hell, the Z06 would outpace the GT-R on the straights.

The Z06’s fastest recorded lap time at the Nürburgring is 7:42.9 This lap was driven in 2005 by Jan Magnussen in 'muggy' conditions. Last year, Chevy revised the suspension on all Corvette models including the Z06. In theory, the new suspension and better weather conditions should be enough for a Z06 to equal or even better the Nissan GT-R's true time of +7:40. When you consider that the Z06 can achieve this time with a GM-standard standing start and production tires, it seems obvious that the GT-R is no match for the Z06 around the ring.

But what does it all mean? Well, not much actually. Every racetrack is different and some cars are suited to some tracks while others are not. The GT-R is suited to smaller tracks like the one R&T used, and the Z06 is suited to longer and faster ones like the ‘Ring.

So why did I bother ranting about this? Nissan has chosen to flaunt its Nürburgring lap times to show the world that their new, high-tech Nissan GT-R is the new bang-for-the-buck Alpha. But it’s not true. The cheaper Corvette Z06 is still the worlds best [unmodified] performance car bargain. What’s more, if the GT-R cannot handle a stock Z06, then how will it fare against the upcoming ZR1? Never mind the 'almighty' spec V model.

Given the GT-R’s looks and oft-reported lack of driving feel, there’s only one reason anyone would buy the uber-Nissan: to own the fastest thing on the road. In the corners, maybe. If you were committed enough to drive at 10/10ths (never mind how “easy” it is), you could probably blow-off a 911 or similar. Down the straights (the great American pastime), there are faster and cheaper choices– and that’s without exploring relatively inexpensive modifications.

In short, the GT-R is an awesome achievement, but Wilkinson’s right: it’s not all that.







Re: The "truth" about the GT-R and the Ring
Thursday, May 22, 2008 8:13 PM
Some have said that the Skyline's reputation was built on the video game console.



Re: The "truth" about the GT-R and the Ring
Thursday, May 22, 2008 8:41 PM
Reading some of the comments:
- Most people know JACK about how to test vehicles (most magazines know about as much, or just enough to make the one they want to, win)
- Nissan pulled a marketing stunt.
- Corvette Traps higher in the front 1/4 mile by 7 mph
- Nissan does a running start, GM does a standing start.
- No one wants to run a Z06 and a GT-R side by side to do a real comparison.

I'd like to see a side-by-side race, and switch drivers after 3 laps each. Do this across 3 days. Both 100% show-room stock... Equal number laps, Average out the times, Call a clear-cut winner, and hang the bullsh*t flag on the loser.

The GT-R is a little technological terror, but if it can't put up and repeat the run, and the Z06/ZR1 can lay it down better, then Nissan best keep that time in the closet.

Will any test, no matter how definitive, silence either side's leg humpers? Not on your life.

However, you're more likely to see a Corvette Z06 than you will a GT-R.... More's the pity.





Re: The
Thursday, May 22, 2008 8:49 PM
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:I'd like to see a side-by-side race, and switch drivers after 3 laps each. Do this across 3 days. Both 100% show-room stock... Equal number laps, Average out the times, Call a clear-cut winner, and hang the bullsh*t flag on the loser.





Re: The
Friday, May 23, 2008 2:41 AM
Yeah, i never truly believed the all motor Vette was lacking that much oomph. I respect the Skyline for what it is and what it does to push the envelope of modern sportscars...but...the vette is what it is. And the Z06 give supercars chills how can a TT6-banger really give it a sweat?
You notice the GT-R is never tested against Z06's German/Italian contemporary’s, why is that....if it's so much faster.



"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net

Re: The
Friday, May 23, 2008 7:30 AM
don't get me started on the GT-R. it's just another turbocharged six-shooter. kinda reminds me of the 2jz:all talk until it's time for comparisons.


People say that what doesn't kill you in this life
will make you stronger. I'm not sure if that is true
or not, but i do know one thing-You have to learn from
it and it has to make you better.......it has to.......

Re: The
Friday, May 23, 2008 1:36 PM
gam , people have been seeing gtr's in #'s to equal the Z06's here , lmao


the gtr might give that faster feeling better than the vette , but its 100% due to being turbo charged , n/a 450tq vs turbo 450tq = turbo tq feels alot faster

if nissan droped their pigs weight to match the vette , it would be a hell of a car to contend with , but at 3800lbs its a heavy ass pig







Re: The
Friday, May 23, 2008 6:42 PM
ITS NOT A SKYLINE

Its a Nissan GTR, NOT a Nissan Skyline GTR



Re: The
Friday, May 23, 2008 11:50 PM
Make's perfect sense to me.

On a short, tight course give me the GTR.

But on the Ring. Z06 all the way or ZR1 by murder



Re: The
Saturday, May 24, 2008 3:10 AM
[quote=97cavie24ls(™)]3800lbs its a heavy ass pig

Vette=sports car.
GTR=GT car.

It seems to me that the GTR was designed for the push button enthusiast and the Vette for someone that really likes to drive.



Re: The
Saturday, May 24, 2008 5:04 AM
^^^ Even the Vette has to many electronic gadgets for my taste. But at lest it is a manual.



Re: The
Saturday, May 24, 2008 6:12 AM
strohlly7 wrote:don't get me started on the GT-R. it's just another turbocharged six-shooter. kinda reminds me of the 2jz:all talk until it's time for comparisons.


LMAO no comment on that one, all talk ya lol


2003 SE-R SPEC V
Custom turbo kit with a t66 turbo @ 15psi, Apexi safc2, custom side exit exhuast, JWT cams, JWT bsr, inovate wideband system, CP 8:5/1 pistons, carrillo rods, comp clutch stage 4, hks catch can, 10k hids. And more to come
Re: The
Saturday, May 24, 2008 10:23 AM
Darkstars wrote:ITS NOT A SKYLINE

Its a Nissan GTR, NOT a Nissan Skyline GTR


Actually Ryan, the GT-R is considered a part of the Skyline heritage and is demarked the R35





Re: The
Saturday, May 24, 2008 2:46 PM
Skyline heritage... yes, Skyline... no

nowhere is it called a Skyline excet by people tlaking about the car, nissan does not call it a skyline... and they even called the G35 a skyline



Re: The
Sunday, May 25, 2008 1:57 AM
Yea i would still have to go with a lot of the guys on here saying the C6 Z06 still holds best bang for the buck... between having one, and beating on not even a Z06 but just a bone stock Coupe at my bonderaunt racing school for 5 days straight (6hours on the track a day) and not even feeling the slightest of brake fade or any kind of sign of something giving out, I would say thats by far your best bet still.



The First Twin Charged jbody
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Re: The
Sunday, May 25, 2008 9:53 AM
Darkstars wrote:Skyline heritage... yes, Skyline... no

nowhere is it called a Skyline excet by people tlaking about the car, nissan does not call it a skyline... and they even called the G35 a skyline


Yes, but even during production the new "GTR" was referred to as the "new Skyline". Thats all the GTR is. An upgraded, new-gen Skyline.
Re: The
Sunday, May 25, 2008 10:43 AM
Darkstars wrote:Skyline heritage... yes, Skyline... no

nowhere is it called a Skyline excet by people tlaking about the car, nissan does not call it a skyline... and they even called the G35 a skyline


You sound just like the SRT-4 guys. No where on the car does it say neon =P Sure looks like a neon to me and everyone else besides the people who don't want to admit they're driving a turbo neon.

No where on the car does it say Skyline....sure looks like its been brought out as the new "Skyline" GTR to me.



Re: The
Sunday, May 25, 2008 8:43 PM
actually that doesn't even sound remotely similar.... they didn't take a Skyline change the engine and try claiming its not a Skyline and calling it something else... they made a brand new car called a GTR



Re: The
Monday, May 26, 2008 6:28 AM
The GTR is nothing more than a overrated car and its been that way for quite some time

Hell even the time attack Cobalt blew it away on national tv



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85





Re: The
Tuesday, May 27, 2008 5:53 PM
Darkstars: I've been trying to drill that into people's heads, the GT-R is NOT a skyline.

Skylines had always come in a 4 door and 2 door variety, the GT-R is 2 Door only.
Skylines were touring cars first, the GT-R is meant to be a sports car.
Skyline is actually being produced, the G35/37 Chassis is the Skyline everywhere in the world other than North America. The GT-R shares nothing with that platform, except the name plate/trim association from previous models. The GT-R's Chassis code is actually CBA-R35 which is the only other vestigial link to the Skyline. (Neon/SRT-4's, the SRT is a neon with a good turbo set up exterior and interior).

The GT-R isn't a Skyline, and never was. There's no pedigree with the skyline either: it's a totally new platform with totally new engine (that's not shared with any other Nissan, whereas the RB series was used in the Laurel and Cefiro) no HICAS, no 4 door.

The GT-R != Skyline.





Re: ha what douche changed the title to the
Wednesday, May 28, 2008 3:31 PM
can someone verify the rumor about the starts. Ive had alot of my freinds call BS on the z06 starting from a stand still. can anyone prove that fact?


"boobs now with Riboflabin"
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Re: ha what douche changed the title to the
Thursday, May 29, 2008 10:39 AM
GAM, I don't believe you!! PROVE IT!!



*stir stir stir*





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