The new CAFE rules - Other Cars Forum

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The new CAFE rules
Monday, April 28, 2008 3:12 PM
Mercedes' cars would have to achieve better average fuel economy than Toyota's. BMW's light trucks would have to get 4 mpg more than those built by General Motors.
These are among the startling outcomes projected for the 2015 model year under proposed federal fuel economy regulations. Under the new rules, the relative increase is highest for the smallest vehicles. Vehicles are measured by their footprint--roughly the area bounded by the wheels.

The rules, unveiled last week by the Bush administration, represent the first big step in enforcing a landmark new energy law. The law mandates a 40 percent increase in car and truck fuel economy by 2020, to an industry average of 35 mpg. The administration regulations anticipate a fast start, calling for 25 percent improvement in the 2011-15 model years.

The effects of the rules would vary dramatically among automakers. The winners are companies such as General Motors, Toyota and Chrysler — mass-market manufacturers with broad product portfolios. The losers are independent high priced brands such as Porsche, BMW and Mercedes.

Regulators based the new standards on their projections of the number of cars and trucks of different sizes that the industry will produce by 2015.
"It's just part of the new world," said John DeCicco, senior fellow for automotive issues with Environmental Defense, a nonprofit advocacy group that supports tougher fuel standards. "Fairness is in the eye of the beholder."

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration developed the rules. The agency's plan creates two sliding scales of fuel economy targets for cars and trucks of different sizes.
Each automaker is assigned its own separate fuel-economy standards for cars and trucks, based on the number of vehicles of each footprint size that it sells.
The sliding scales aim to achieve better fuel economy in vehicles of all sizes. Under the rules, automakers that build large vehicles might find it advantageous to keep doing so. If they downsize, their standards would go up. At the same time, industry and government officials argue that if gasoline prices remain high, consumers will demand smaller, fuel-efficient vehicles.


Small cars, big numbers
The proposed system creates anomalies. The most extreme example is Porsche Cars North America Inc. The company's powerful sports cars have short wheelbases and consequently small footprints, thus higher fuel economy targets.

If the industry builds the mix of vehicle sizes that NHTSA projects, Porsche cars would have to average 41.3 mpg in 2015--about 7 mpg better than Toyota, Lexus and Scion cars collectively. The current car standard, 27.5 mpg, has not changed since 1990.

Other automakers with smaller, less diverse product offerings--such as Volkswagen Group of America Inc., Mitsubishi, Subaru and Suzuki--also face much higher standards under the proposal.

Variations among the six largest manufacturers are less striking because of their broader product lineups. But they are still significant. For cars, Chrysler LLC's 2015 fuel economy standard would be the lowest, at 33.6 mpg. American Honda's would be highest, at 36.4 mpg.

For 2015 model trucks, GM--which generally has bigger pickups and SUVs--would have the lowest standard among the six biggest companies, at 27.4 mpg. Honda trucks would have the highest standard, at 29.6 mpg. Today, trucks must meet a fuel economy standard of 22.5 mpg.

"They are certainly aggressive" numbers, said Ed Cohen, vice president of government and industry relations for Honda North America Inc. "The truck hurdle will be the more challenging of the two."


Play or pay
The requirements that Porsche faces in 2015 help explain why the company lobbied Congress hard to give it an exemption in the energy bill. Lawmakers refused.

Some industry executives predict Porsche and several other automakers will pay hefty fines rather than change their lineups. NHTSA concedes fines would be less expensive than investing in new fuel-efficient powertrains.

The agency is seeking public comment on whether it should increase its penalties. The former DaimlerChrysler paid a fine of about $30 million for the 2006 model year because its imported cars missed the fuel standard.

Automakers generally support the new fuel standards, despite the anomalies. They say a tough national standard is preferable to state-by-state greenhouse gas regulations, which they claim would create market chaos.

Environmental advocates mostly expressed satisfaction with the proposed rules as well. An exception was Joan Claybrook, a former NHTSA chief and longtime president of the consumer group Public Citizen.

Claybrook said the rules do too little too late. The proposed sliding scales, she said, would create "an unadministrablecq mess."

NHTSA is taking public comments over the next two months. Regulators must adopt final rules by April 1, 2009. The Bush administration plans to act by the end of the year.



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Re: The new CAFE rules
Monday, April 28, 2008 3:24 PM
cafe can go fark themselves







Re: The new CAFE rules
Monday, April 28, 2008 3:27 PM
I can't wait for the day governments regulate fuel economy to the point that it is physically impossible to achieve, where we will all have to resort back to horse and carriage...but then I'm sure PETA will have a field day with that as well.

I'll be putting my money in Huffy and Mongoose stocks while they're low.
Re: The new CAFE rules
Monday, April 28, 2008 4:09 PM
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:
Automakers generally support the new fuel standards, despite the anomalies. They say a tough national standard is preferable to state-by-state greenhouse gas regulations, which they claim would create market chaos.


That is the only sentence that makes a lick of sense to me.. . California, are you listening.

The whole thing reeks of the gov helping American companies (automotive and petrol alike) under the pretense of environmental efforts, by forcing others to invest millions of dollars into fuel efficiency while giving GM a pass. If I'm missing something someone help me out. I can't understand how small (already low fuel consumption) cars need to get more stingy, but the big gas guzzlers get left alone.... WTF?

And why use 'footprint' as the determining factor. Wheelbase and track are highly variable, and manufactures will just design cars with different wheel bases to alter their CAFE requirements. I would say Curb weight would have been the best thing to attach these standards to, since they need to make cars pass safety crash test anyway. The car must then still maintain safety standards and they could focus on decreasing weight lowering their CAFE and increasing the fuel efficiency simultaneously. We need to get it though our thick skulls that to accelerate a heavy object requires more energy than a light object (We don't need to be driving around in 3500lb sedans) and we are limited to the efficiency of our current fuel.

This whole thing is one big BS front to get our attention away from the true problem: We are using a non-renewable, emissions producing fuel. But implementing a solution to that problem would be all to easy logistically speaking (and far too difficult because of the influence of Petrol companies).

Here is the solution to all of the worlds problems: Use Solar energy (from all hot climates) to produce hydrogen and use that fuel everything from cars to electricity to home heating. This would allow the 3rd world countries to work off their debts (their natural resources are the sun), provide them with jobs, we buy their energy (from their sun) and everyone is happy, war-free, debt-free, pollution-free. I'm sick of these BS legislative band-aids, fix the damn problem or leave it alone until you're actually willing to fix it.


WOW. that was a rant and a half.




www.drluc.ca
Re: The new CAFE rules
Monday, April 28, 2008 4:25 PM
Sip wrote:I'm sick of these BS legislative band-aids, fix the damn problem or leave it alone until you're actually willing to fix it.


x2

All legislation is doing is scoring points with environmentalists and avoiding the need for renewable resources. Actually, this works out better since we'll all eventually be forced to use Ethanol even though it is worse than oil for the environment.

CAFE is ridiculous and only creates more problems than it solves.



Re: The new CAFE rules
Monday, April 28, 2008 5:45 PM
Its not rediculous, its the manf that need to build better cars

If BMW and Mercedes didnt build such tanks they wouldnt have a problem

And as for Porsche if they cant get 30mpg out of a 6 cylinder its their own damn fault, the vette does it with a much bigger engine and a gasp old...PUSHROD motor, not to mention smoking the @!#$ out of a 911



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85





Re: The new CAFE rules
Monday, April 28, 2008 7:02 PM
If my outdated design (based on an late 80's design) 2.4L can get 38 MPG on the highway (maybe I was only going 60 MPH) then whay cant the European comapnies with their vasty superior engines do the same?? is a high average like suggested the best option? Probably not, but if that is teh goal then im sure they can meet it. I also dont think they should just be allowed to pay a fine and get out of the requirement.


Re: The new CAFE rules
Monday, April 28, 2008 7:50 PM
where is my Chevy Volt? I'm ready to buy it now dammit...



Everything Louder than Everything else
Re: The new CAFE rules
Monday, April 28, 2008 8:41 PM
I guess they arent so vastly superior, what a load of BS anyway



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85





Re: The new CAFE rules
Tuesday, April 29, 2008 4:29 AM
Porsche has to AVERAGE 41.3mpg? Jeez... that's a bit much. That's like 39mpg city and 46mpg highway. A freakin' Yaris only does 29/36 at the moment. I guess we'll be seeing a lot of diesel porsches in the future.

In fact, I'd like to state that the new CAFE requirements pretty much guarantee diesel engines in most cars and trucks, with hybrid systems and cylinder deactivation becoming standard in everything with more than 4 liters of engine. There's just no other way to meet those targets in the next seven years.
Re: The new CAFE rules
Thursday, May 01, 2008 3:34 AM
the government is a pimp, and the automakers are its hoes. maybe they should regulate the oil industry and lower oil prices, instead of squeezing the automakers to make more efficient cars with ridiculous standards.




Re: The new CAFE rules
Thursday, May 01, 2008 10:34 PM
I believe that's how a socialist country runs, sir.


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