I think Hybrids are going to be a wet fart in the whole "evolution" of the automobile. The problem is that they're such an obvious stop-gap measure in the race to make a hydrogen powered car. Also, Hybrids really don't offer any advantages if you do a lot of highway driving. A diesel Jetta will totally rape a Prius in fuel economy at a constant speed of 55.
I knew right away that nobody was serious about the whole "hybrid" thing when I noticed how half-assed the Prius was. First of all, why is the gas engine even connected to the powertrain? A waste right there. The car should be electrically powered and the gas engine should function as a generator (constant rpm = extra fuel economy). Second, why is this GAS powered? A Diesel generator will last about 10,000 years AND run on a teaspoon of fuel per hour. Ridiculous.
I thought of the above paragraph exactly 3 nanoseconds after reading the Prius' statistics. Which means that the engineers must have thought of it too. Which means that if it wasn't done, then it was only because the whole Hybrid thing is just a sham made to cash in on government rebates offered to drivers using the least amount of fuel saving technology possible while still being "hybrid".
However, I see proper Hybrid powertrains appearing in boats, trains, taxi cabs, police cars (city patrol), work trucks/vans, construction machinery and 18 wheelers. Hopefully soon because those segments would benefit from Hybrids.
The future in my opinion? Hydrogen.
What do you think?
Well, when someone can come up with a gas powered generator that will fully charge a battery that is powerful enough to run a car at highway speeds for a long time and that battery can actually be small enough to fit in a passenger car then things will be gravy.
The Prius was designed more so with city driving and stop and go traffic in mind. Keeping that in mind, this might shock you, but if you never take the Prius above 20 it will pull like 200 miles per gallon, and run silently in the process. Kind of a funny story, one of my friends has a Prius and we were roadtripping and got the idea to see just how far we could go on 1 tank of gas. I don't remember how many miles we got, but when the car ran out of gas we weren't stranded. We just had to creep at 20mph on the shoulder until we hit the next exit with a gas station. Most prius owners are closer to hippies than Nazis there bag man.
As for the future, I'm switching back to a carb, and leaded gas and removing all of my cat converters from my cars! I mean if we can't do it perfectly what's the point of even trying right?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, March 21, 2008 10:12 AM
i know of alot of old school cars that got better mileage than most cars now
worst part is safety on newer cars adding alot of weight to them , lighter cars are easier to get moving which is where you put the motor under its heaviest load
Look up how a diesel locomotive works and you'll see that they already use this setup.
I see it being exactly the same in 20 years from now as it is now. Just alot more expensive to own and operate.
Hydrogen vehicles won't be the solution to the energy crisis, it'll put a premium on electrical resource AND water resource.
Electrical vehicles and conservation will be a better solution: we need a better storage medium.
Long-term: Full electric, possibly even solar-assisted.
Short-term: Cellulosic ethanol. 100x better than hydrogen, diesel, hybrid, whatever.
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
Ethanol? If it's going to strain the food supply, it's not a viable solution.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Ethanol? If it's going to strain the food supply, it's not a viable solution.
I hope that was sarcasm...
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
Cellulosic ethanol can be harvested from just about any plant, so it's a lot better than Corn based Ethanol. It'll still require that it be grown somewhere though. Gam brings up a point, if there's more money to be made growing fuel, then farmers will switch to that. Given the huge appetite for cars we have in America that would require a lot of farmland, probably all of it and then some to be honest. It won't cut into the food supply, but it may make food pricier.
Knoxfire wrote:Cellulosic ethanol can be harvested from just about any plant, so it's a lot better than Corn based Ethanol. It'll still require that it be grown somewhere though. Gam brings up a point, if there's more money to be made growing fuel, then farmers will switch to that. Given the huge appetite for cars we have in America that would require a lot of farmland, probably all of it and then some to be honest. It won't cut into the food supply, but it may make food pricier.
That's already happened here. Grain prices have skyrocketed. As a result meat, milk, and just about every other animal related product has already started to increase in price. Cellulosic ethanol is ok if it is taken from something that we are already growing, where the stocks etc are just going to waste anyway. A huge amount of food production is displaced to produce a tiny amount of fuel; eg. 20% of the US's corn goes to ethenol production, but ethenol accounts for less than 1% of the fuel used. In that case it is a far more viable solution to reduce fuel use by 1%. I try to remain neutral until I have seen all the facts, but I haven't been able to find much on the pro side of ethenol use, and lots on the con side.
No matter what powers vehicles in the future, it is going to put some strain on some resource. The only real solution is to discard the whole idea of personal tranportation, and commuting 60+ miles a day. Mass transit and the whole Mayan plaza system of everything you need all together in a small neighbourhood is logical.
Knoxfire wrote:Cellulosic ethanol can be harvested from just about any plant, so it's a lot better than Corn based Ethanol. It'll still require that it be grown somewhere though. Gam brings up a point, if there's more money to be made growing fuel, then farmers will switch to that. Given the huge appetite for cars we have in America that would require a lot of farmland, probably all of it and then some to be honest. It won't cut into the food supply, but it may make food pricier.
...as well as products from plants (aka recycling). You can use anything from corn stalks (after the corn has been harvested), to switchgrass grown on the side of the freeway, to old cardboard boxes or car tires.
We also have a professor here making diesel with algae and crop water runoff
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
KFLO wrote:Well, when someone can come up with a gas powered generator that will fully charge a battery that is powerful enough to run a car at highway speeds for a long time and that battery can actually be small enough to fit in a passenger car then things will be gravy.
The Prius was designed more so with city driving and stop and go traffic in mind. Keeping that in mind, this might shock you, but if you never take the Prius above 20 it will pull like 200 miles per gallon, and run silently in the process. Kind of a funny story, one of my friends has a Prius and we were roadtripping and got the idea to see just how far we could go on 1 tank of gas. I don't remember how many miles we got, but when the car ran out of gas we weren't stranded. We just had to creep at 20mph on the shoulder until we hit the next exit with a gas station. Most prius owners are closer to hippies than Nazis there bag man.
As for the future, I'm switching back to a carb, and leaded gas and removing all of my cat converters from my cars! I mean if we can't do it perfectly what's the point of even trying right?
AC Propulsion has already done it with the
tzero or look up Genset generator.
E85 will go by the wayside in the next 10 years, its less efficient than gas and its still pollution
Water is the most abundant substance on the planet, I dont think a shortage is a problem
Hydrogen is the most abundant substance in the entire universe, again no shortages there
Turbo Biodiesel in conjunction with electric will be the way of the next 20-30 years until battery technology catches up to the point of total electric, it however is just as dirty to the planet as gas or E85
I think something in the lines of electric and hydrogen will win out, neither produce any pollution
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
1000hp economy cars....@!#$ the tree hugging hippies
Rodimus Prime wrote:
I think something in the lines of electric and hydrogen will win out, neither produce any pollution
Using them doesn't create polution, but looking at the big picture it takes a huge amount of energy to create either one. Making the electricity does create alot of pollution. And unless they find a efficient way of harvesting the free hydrogen, it takes a huge amount of electricity to make hydrogen.
There seems to be alot of other problems that have to be overcome before we can find a new fuel for the automobile.
Hopefully if they perfect fusion power and shrink the technology down enoughb that could power a vehicle. Way in the future though.
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In the short term future I see a few things happening, one (to my ultimate sadness) is the gradual phasing out of manual transmissions to be replaced by more sophisticated electronic manumatics that can be operated with simple PRND buttons on the dash or paddle shifters on the steering wheel. Hell, they might even add a drive-by-wire electronic "clutch" and shifter to give you the feel of a true manual without it being one. The reason behind this is purely to save money on making transmissions. If a car only has one type of tranny and they're all identical to install on the assembly line, that saves the company money. Especially if the tranny can be operated as a garden variety auto or a manual.
I also see the current crop of V8s going bye-bye once they get to retirement age. However, I don't think V8s are quite dead just yet. I don't think we'll see a next gen LSx V8 but we will see Ecotec or Atlas (Or whatever replaces those 4 cylinders) derived V8s that use the heads, pistons, intakes, exhaust manifolds, connecting rods and whatever else they can salvage off their four banger brothers (Along with V10 and V12 versions for the Vette probably). So worse comes to worse, the Camaro will have to make do with a 4.8 liter DOHC V8 that pump out 360hp. Likewise, Ford will simply take their Zetec four and make a 4.6 liter DOHC V8 for the Mustang as if the death of the modular V8 never happened. I think the Hemi will soldier on a while since it's so new, but Chrysler may need to think about deboring/destroking it to reduce it's size. A 300hp 5 liter Hemi with thicker cylinder walls wouldn't do anyone any harm, plus it'd just make the engine a million times tougher.
Again, the V8 thing is an economical decision where it's cheaper just to build a new block and crank to make a V8 and adapt everything else you can from the L4's to put on it. It'll also reduce the number of manufacturing plants and companies love THAT.
I see RWD making somewhat of a comeback in full-size/mid-size cars. Whatever whatshisface at GM said nothwithstanding, FWD isn't that much lighter than RWD and a rear driver gives you bragging rights. Plus the American public sees rear wheel drive as something that indicates quality in a car. There's a lot of people out there still reeling from the FWD switch of the 80's where a lot of the front drivers were just absolute garbage in looks and performance. There's just no reason why a Cadillac or Lincoln should be FWD, nor should a Mustang/Camaro/Challenger/Viper/Corvette be that way too. Some cars are better off FWD because they have no pretentious to being "ultimate" driving machines, but some cars deserve it what with the pricetags they demand. So, purely as a marketing thing, I see RWD coming back here and there. It's already begun with the Charger/300 and G8/CTS, but I see it spreading to Ford, Lincoln and Chevrolet at the very least.
I also thought of another thing. I was looking at the Jaguar S-type's 2.0 Liter Turbodiesel engine and how it gets more MPG than the Cobalt for a car weighing nearly 4000lbs. Yes it's slow, yes it's crap to drive, but it has strong torque and can pull a big car like that. Which a smaller gas engine can't do. Smaller engine = better fuel economy. However, since most gas engines can't lose too much size without losing massive amounts of torque, thus being useless if you stick them in a bigger car, diesel engines are the solution here. And with low-sulfur diesel being introduced it'll also be clean.
So I'm thinking that Turbodiesel's are definitely going to be the future as standard equipment for trucks and 4000+ pound passenger cars, and optional on everything else.
Americans won't tolerate high gas prices, but the gas prices aren't likely to go down ever again, so the only solution is more fuel efficient cars. Diesel is a fast and easy solution to this and car companies absolutely love fast and easy solutions.
I would like to see the Hydrogen fuel cell. However, they will need to devise ways for maintenance costs to go up on electric vehicles. Bastards! We could use our excess power at off peak hours to produce Hydrogen. With nuclear reactors being the primary source of energy. At least the waste product, as horrible as it is, can be managed in one spot. Today, we all @!#$ in the air we breath.
Batteries are too wasteful and too hard to dispose of. You cannot leave the consumer with the responsibility to dispose of them properly. The green areas around my town are always littered with garbage from the jerks that don't want to deal with their waste.
I don't want diesel. I suppose the time may come where the high cost of diesel engines will offset the decent fuel economy. A duromax is a 10,0000 dollar option in Canada. That is a ton of fuel to make up for the additional cost. Also, when diesel engines start causing problems, they are rediculously expensive to fix. When not running just right, they puke out tons of nastyness. Biodiesel will promote the abuse of our fertile lands. We are already eating up out farms with our land-scar cities. Petro chemical fertilizers are already overused and are currently polluting our waters.
With current technology, we all have to admit that the personal vehicle is a luxury. Originally, North Americas plan was to have wicked mass transit. We were on our way until the car manufacturers screwed that up. That being said, I took the bus as a young man. It sucked.
I just want to add, ban the drivethrough. I want to smack every idiot that sits in line at Tim Hortons idling their SUV's every morning because they are too damn lazy to make it at home. The only reason that swill is decent is because they use 18% cream. Creating more fat asses and worse fuel economy. End of rant. Don't get me started on Mc Crap. Someone should sue that place.
DroptopPaul wrote:1000hp economy cars....@!#$ the tree hugging hippies
I'm all for an LSx motor in a Geo Metro and calling it a day.
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