Should took that gate 7 sign for a little memory.
i wish, there were security right there. talked to one of them, he said a lot of old timers who use to work there show up to take picture. some of which actually cry when they see what has happened to there place of work for the past 15+ years of working there.
9-19-05/1-7-07
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Thats really sad, ive drove past there a few times. Maybe ill go by and say goodbye myself .
Stupid GM
.
Lunchbox(The Goce One) wrote:i wish, there were security right there. talked to one of them, he said a lot of old timers who use to work there show up to take picture. some of which actually cry when they see what has happened to there place of work for the past 15+ years of working there.
Well, if the rumors I've heard about UAW workers getting paid $27 an hour to START for a general worker position are true, hell, I'd be crying too lol.
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Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:Lunchbox(The Goce One) wrote:i wish, there were security right there. talked to one of them, he said a lot of old timers who use to work there show up to take picture. some of which actually cry when they see what has happened to there place of work for the past 15+ years of working there.
Well, if the rumors I've heard about UAW workers getting paid $27 an hour to START for a general worker position are true, hell, I'd be crying too lol.
And therein lies part of the problem, of why domestic automakers have trouble setting their prices to be comparable to imports and making money...
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BlownBlackZ wrote:Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:Lunchbox(The Goce One) wrote:i wish, there were security right there. talked to one of them, he said a lot of old timers who use to work there show up to take picture. some of which actually cry when they see what has happened to there place of work for the past 15+ years of working there.
Well, if the rumors I've heard about UAW workers getting paid $27 an hour to START for a general worker position are true, hell, I'd be crying too lol.
And therein lies part of the problem, of why domestic automakers have trouble setting their prices to be comparable to imports and making money...
well my mom said that when she first moved to america she had a few friends who worked there. they were making 20 to start.....back in 1980
9-19-05/1-7-07
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While many of us are jealous of the good paying "remedial" jobs, we forget that the community thrives because of it. 7 jobs in the community for every automotive plant job in the area. Think about it. They using the land for a mall now. A bunch of really low paying retail jobs. I wonder who will be shopping there?
Henri Ford had a great idea. Allow the people to buy the car that they make. Good idea huh. Pay them much less, and they are not buying much. It's an economic model and it has worked for some time.
Wage costs and health cost are always blamed. I suppose the people that make our cars should live in dives and die from cureable cancers? Do they really get payed too much?
The dynamics of union shops certainly gets in the way of productivity. If the workers are too productive, they run the chance of cutbacks. If they can't find the balance, the shop becomes a burden.
GM is certainly focusing on the growing parts of the world. It 's no wonder it's time to cut costs here. I wonder what standard of living is acceptable to the general public for an automotive worker. Is it only the ones fortunate enough to be educated that deserve heath and well being?
SPEND YOUR MONEY AT HOME. Buy from your neighbour. If they are making a Chevy in your area, buy one. Help pay their morgage and buy cars and send thier kids to school. Maybe they will be able to support your industry in return. If your price too betray your neighbour is trendy styling and slightly better fit and finish(percieved qualty), I'm glad I'm not your friend. I am proud that the last three cars I have driven, I have known someone that made a part of each.
That is the dumbest @!#$ I have ever read in my life. I drive a 2007 Nissan Titan. I am a consumer, and I buy with the best value in mind. Listen, more power, better quality, better gas milage, better styling, truck of the year in 2004 and 2007, and cost less than I could get into a brand new truck from any of the big 3. Dodge is a JOKE, all of their models are WAY over priced, and they havent figured out corrosion protection just yet(laughing while I am talking about this) I will never own a Dodge for the rest of my life. It is sad when a two year old or one year old vehicle comes into our bodyshop, and between panels is all corroded. So, long story short, I will buy the best value, no waste my money on lesser craftmenship. Nissan has many workers in the US too, so I dont feel bad. I have nothing against GM, they are making a great truck right now, just not the best value IMO. But the other two...pffft...read some reviews, and go test drive some vehicles, and lastly, work on these vehicles, you will make your mind up quickly. And you wont feel too bad for that UAW worker that gets 5 weeks vacation and 30 dollars an hour, for working on an assembly line. UAW union is a joke.
If the janitor at the local high school is getting $10/hr, then why should their counterpart at the local automotive plant get $30/hr? Obviously the big shots are way overpaid as well, but the UAW is not helping its members keep their jobs. I highly doubt all these plants would be closing/moving if the workers were making what they would in any other industry.
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You see, I have no problem with people making a fair wage, but $27 an hour is what a FOREMAN at my plant makes, why is a general worker getting paid that much to fill parts bins, sweep floors, and fill in for call-outs? The fact is that an idustrial job is an industrial job, no one in a UAW plant is doing anything more complicated or difficult than in any other plant making any other product. So explain to me why a general worker for UAW makes double what other people in a comparable position make in other plants?
As for the "buy American" line, that joke stopped being funny back in the early 90's, when I wasn't pulling nearly as many Jap and Euro parts out of American parts as I do these days.....
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wow, just wanted to post some pictures of the old plant and the next thing i know there is a giant bitch fest over nothing on here. wow. the jbo has really matured since i left it. but guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion.....even if its completly off topic from the original post
i had a chevy....my brother had a chevy...my parents have 5 chevys, and countless gm models over the years....all junk. thats why i moved into the euro market. hands down the JAPS make the best cars around.....an at the cheapest price. im just happy my GERMAN can went lose value as QUICK and my AMERICAN car in the USA, is a BETTER over all BUILD QUALITY and i know that the person who built my car wasnt a LAZY UAW WORKER WHO CRIES ABOUT GETTING PAID $20 AN OUR TO BUILD A CAR.
lets be real...im a tech...and i get paid half of what a uaw person gets paid to start. whats wrong with that statement? someone who can throw a car together, whos got all the nuts and bolts in front of them does it everyday, gets paid more than a person that has to use his mind to diag a problem and fix something that was either defected or in most cases....installed wrong at the factory.
pfft i should switch jobs.....
hey jay there an opening at your factory
9-19-05/1-7-07
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Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:You see, I have no problem with people making a fair wage, but $27 an hour is what a FOREMAN at my plant makes, why is a general worker getting paid that much to fill parts bins, sweep floors, and fill in for call-outs? The fact is that an idustrial job is an industrial job, no one in a UAW plant is doing anything more complicated or difficult than in any other plant making any other product. So explain to me why a general worker for UAW makes double what other people in a comparable position make in other plants?
As for the "buy American" line, that joke stopped being funny back in the early 90's, when I wasn't pulling nearly as many Jap and Euro parts out of American parts as I do these days.....
You are not going to send your kids to university on 20 buck an hour. The plan for North America is to improve things. Isn't it? It seems everyone wants the standard of living to go down. These higher wages support the community, not just the one person. I didn't say buy American, I said buy local. If the car is brought in by boat, and you buy it, your likely a selfish and certainly don't deserve the support of you neighbour because you won't support them.
Quote:
Lunchbox(The Goce One)
Today 4:08 AM
wow, just wanted to post some pictures of the old plant and the next thing i know there is a giant bitch fest over nothing on here. wow. the jbo has really matured since i left it. but guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion.....even if its completly off topic from the original post
i had a chevy....my brother had a chevy...my parents have 5 chevys, and countless gm models over the years....all junk. thats why i moved into the euro market. hands down the JAPS make the best cars around.....an at the cheapest price. im just happy my GERMAN can went lose value as QUICK and my AMERICAN car in the USA, is a BETTER over all BUILD QUALITY and i know that the person who built my car wasnt a LAZY UAW WORKER WHO CRIES ABOUT GETTING PAID $20 AN OUR TO BUILD A CAR.
lets be real...im a tech...and i get paid half of what a uaw person gets paid to start. whats wrong with that statement? someone who can throw a car together, whos got all the nuts and bolts in front of them does it everyday, gets paid more than a person that has to use his mind to diag a problem and fix something that was either defected or in most cases....installed wrong at the factory.
pfft i should switch jobs.....
hey jay there an opening at your factory
Hmm. Tech's generally get a flat rate. Do you charge the full amount when you can finish the job in less time. I bet you do. Should your customers be upset with you? NO. You desrve to make a decent living. I know techs that make almost 30 an hour. They hustle and do good work.
I truely don't understand the assumption that GM makes utter crap. I have managed fleets of GM trucks. Owned GM cars for 20 years. Worked in GM dealers, and tinkered with GM performance. Other than a rattle interior on the cheaper cars in the winter and slightly wider body panel gaps, I have had 100% reliability. NO wait, 1 tranny in a plow truck that was abused. That guy was fired.
You generally don't hear about Honda minivan trannies busting repeatedly or the massive recalls Toyota is running. The Germans are having big problems these days. Many of the big players buy the parts from the same guys anyway.
Anyway. When I see a GM plant closing, I recal what happened to Detroit. I hope your community survives better.
Craig Lewis wrote:Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:You see, I have no problem with people making a fair wage, but $27 an hour is what a FOREMAN at my plant makes, why is a general worker getting paid that much to fill parts bins, sweep floors, and fill in for call-outs? The fact is that an idustrial job is an industrial job, no one in a UAW plant is doing anything more complicated or difficult than in any other plant making any other product. So explain to me why a general worker for UAW makes double what other people in a comparable position make in other plants?
As for the "buy American" line, that joke stopped being funny back in the early 90's, when I wasn't pulling nearly as many Jap and Euro parts out of American parts as I do these days.....
You are not going to send your kids to university on 20 buck an hour. The plan for North America is to improve things. Isn't it? It seems everyone wants the standard of living to go down. These higher wages support the community, not just the one person. I didn't say buy American, I said buy local. If the car is brought in by boat, and you buy it, your likely a selfish and certainly don't deserve the support of you neighbour because you won't support them.
Ah yes, there it is, the attempt at a guilt trip. Maybe if GM, Ford, and Chrysler had worked harder on changing their product line to meet market demand in order to better compete with the imports BEFORE it was too late, rather than banking on customer loyalty and applying the guilt trip method on anyone who wasn't already a customer, they might not be in the pickle they're in right now.
I never made any argument about GM making a crap car. I actually happen to like lots of GM vehicles, and I sure prefer working on them compared to most imports. As for 20 bucks an hour not sending my kids to college- tough. Maybe I'm incorrect, but a general worker, at least in my plant, has basically the same responsibilities as most minimum-wage paid retail clerks who don't get benefits like health insurance, either.
You talk about me being selfish for purchasing a car (which I purchased USED, from my own employer, btw), well how selfish is it to be demanding over double the pay for a particular job, with a nice fat benefits package on top of it, at the cost of closing plants and losing more jobs? The consumer isn't to blame for GM, Ford, and Chrysler's downfall, the management in charge of them for the past 2-3 decades is. Because they never should have gotten to the point of paying a starting worker double the rate of what the same position is paid in other industries. I don't blame you for wanting to get paid whatever it is you get paid, hell, I'd be sitting their milking it for all its worth too. But don't try to say that somebody who fills up parts bins for a living deserves $20+ dollars an hour when the company is tanking.
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The dynamics of union shops certainly gets in the way of productivity. If the workers are too productive, they run the chance of cutbacks. If they can't find the balance, the shop becomes a burden.
This is the part I find particularly amusing about your argument.... If the union shops were EARNING their pay by being as productive as possible (like they're supposed to, as I'm sure that just like my plant, your union contract specifies that unionized employees will not participate in any intentional slowdown of work in return for whatever concessions are made on the employer's part), many plants may not have been opened in the first place, saving the company money and allowing it to operate more efficiently. Sure, there would have been fewer jobs produced, but building plants to cope with a demand thats not being met and paying workers wages and giving them benefits the company won't be able to afford 10 years down the road is FAR from helping any economy.
Then you've got the pension situation. How do you make money as a company when you continue to pay people who are no longer contributing to the health of the company? Retirement should be the individual's concern, through any of the many retirement savings methods out there (401K, IRA's, etc). If the company decides to contribute to that workers 401K plan while the employee is still working, thats fine, but paying thousands of workers 50-80% of their salary for a possible 15-20+ years is a serious drag on the company.
No one here is saying that UAW workers should live in poverty or live without healthcare, we're simply saying that it makes no kind of business sense whatsoever to be paying people double or more the going rate for a job thats comparable to any other job in industry. Now, clearly, this is an incredibly complex argument seeing as how its not only the economics of GM's payscale, but of pretty much every economy worldwide that figures into this discussion. For instance, if we had fair trade with nations like China, our goods wouldn't be heavily taxed in that country and thus, we'd have more sales of American goods there. If the same nations required employers to pay a decent living wage to their employees, their goods would not be so inexpensive and thus American goods could be more competitive. But it doesn't help that every American seems to think that they deserve to be paid enough to own a brand new 4 bedroom home with a 60" plasma tv, and two brand new cars in the driveway. Our standard of living in this country, even at the poverty level, is 50 times better than that of a lot of the workers who make our imported goods.
Whats happening now with our economy is a balancing of the scales. Industry's production capability exceeded its market. Its not just in cars, my plant makes paint cans and even we feel the pinch. Our company is responsible for 80% of the canning industry in the world and they're being forced to cut excess production capacity as well. Capacity that I know from working there, should never have been in place if people did their damn jobs.
As a disclaimer, I'm not anti-union, I'm no pro-corporation. I'm simply pro-common sense. You don't make money by spending money that you don't have on things that aren't going to help you. The Big 3 have become so convoluted as corporations that they're fallign under their own weight. There was never any need for any of those companies to have umpteen separate brand divisions with products that were essentially the same shrouded in different sheet metal. The reason Japan is kicking our ass lately in regards to industry in general is because their society embraces the concept of teamwork and putting the greater good before oneself. The Japanese don't stay after their shift milking hour after hour of overtime doing relatively nothing, they don't say "thats not my job" when asked to do something not written word for word in their job description, etc. If it wasn't for the greed and selfishness of just about every employed person in America, our economy might be better off. And we wonder why other countries think we're greedy, lazy a$$holes?
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Please understand that I wrote this with divided attention.
Nothing wrong with a guilt trip on this issue. It's your neighbours job. The neighbourhood itself. It's not a matter of good business, it's a matter of a good economy. Whether you hate the so called lazy union worker or not. Without their money circling around, were screwed. You are buying the pitch that they are paid too much. 30 bucks an hour to be bored out of your skull makes sense to me. I don't want the job. I met a kid the other day making 27 sand blasting. Good for him. I recently met a young lady that had a History of Theater degree. She's makiing more than 30 in something entirely unrelated to theater in her first job. The bottom line is that they are responsible to the shareholder. The market took a hit, so they have to provide value to those who expect to sit back, do absolutely nothing and make coin. Sounds like the rich are getting richer at the common guys expense. And everyone is saying, it's about time. You guys are no Robin Hoods. Maybe Walmart should buy GM. I guess it's about time that the American dream dies anyway. GM has been selling it's profitable divisions in North America. Could this be an effort to paint a darker picture?
Are GM cars soooooo bad? Absolutely not. What you get is a slightly better percieved build quality and fit and finish. The car still gets you to work. Takes you too the mall. Cost little to maintain. Finances cheaper and so on. You get what you pay for. In fact, the average time people are keeping thier cars has gone up. GM included. I have sent several GM cars to the wrecker. All because of rust from salted roads. Trannies still good. Engine dripping a bit but with factory build and running fine. In fact, I have a 13 year old GM car in my driveway right now. Survived because it was rustproofed. Even passed the sniffer test with original equipment. I have learned that the typical GM driver is less likely to follow the recomended maintenance. It might be that the POS branding that GM owns, justifies the owner to treat it as such in their mind. Maybe it also justifies the hatred towards them. Personally, I like GM wokers. They have literally helped me make my car payment by favouring my business.
I do agree 100% that many union shops work to rule. I would love all GM workers to put that little extra into every part, so that I might have a tighter car. It's already cheap when comparing to the competition. Maybe the rage against the labourer should be shared at least in some part with the lazy white collar worker. I have worked in and with large offices, at least the plant worker likely produces something every few minutes. I can't say that for the average cubicle inhabitant. Maybe 20% actually are productive in any sense. The rest are on a repeating make work projects or browsing the net. I honestly believe that some university grads feel entitled to the relaxed lifestyle, while the plant worker should be worked to te bone. I have met many retired GM plant workers. It's too bad many of them actually won't get a chance to enjoy the fruitful savings because thier bodies are messed up from years of repeated tasks.
We have no chance in competing in manufacturing with countries with an accepted low standard of living. Shall we throw in the towel and expect that we all live in 500 sq/ ft appartments with no cars, computers, cell phones or internet? Maybe we should all want to be crammed into a train like a sardine by a subway worker like in tokyo while the top brass enjoy a meeting on a 100ft yaght. In London, it takes generations to own a small home. Literally. I think the point I try to make in justifying the BUY at HOME Slogan is that we must circulate our money as much as we can inside our countries before it goes elswhere. If we are paying our workers too much, at least the money is still here to hire a contractor, add an addition to the house....or just buy that Corvette they have dreamnt about over 30 years of working a dreary, go nowhere job. How else to you make a plant workers life rewarding anyway. The job itself certainly has none. The pride of tightening 1000 bolts a day might test even the most devoted worker. NO question things have gone too far. But here we are and now people families will pay the price. If you are an advocate for lowering the standard of living for the plant worker, you must also accept that most of the big industries out there share the same issues. I am not willing to admit that we should by principle lower north americas standard of living. If anything, I would wish that the still very poor parts of our continent have the chance to have a wasteful industry around them too.
Well, let me start off by saying... I spent the last 12 years of my life in that plant..... and I am REALLY sad to see it go. I probably know all of the people out there watching/taking pictures of the plant. and as far as them spending 15+years there... try more along the line of 30+ years.... It was a decent living.... a place where a guy can come out of HS and make enough money to survive in NJ....
I'm not going to get into arguing with you kids about GM workers being over paid or whatever.... all I'm going to say to those moronic statements is.... TRY IT... just TRY working on that assembly line for just ONE day.... and try to tell me that I was overpaid. The way those plants are set up... if it takes 50 seconds to finish a job (line is set up for a job a minute) GM expects it done in 45 seconds... unless you are really good at your job, there is ABSOLUTELY no time to stop moving..... so again... i say.... TRY IT... then talk about being over or underpaid....
Oh yea... and for all you kids saying that UAW workers shouldn't make $30/hr (which even TODAY I don't make that at GM) just because that's what YOUR foreman makes.... it's called cost of living.... NJ has a MUCH higher cost of living than 80% of the US.... $30/hr in NJ equals out to about $18 anywhere else....
Ignorant people like the people making those posts above me remind me EXACTLY why I took my Cav and left jbody.org.... I used to check this site every day... but the childish bull@!#$ started to take over... and now i see that nothing has changed....
Junior
to think my only mission was to show some pictures. i didnt want this to become a full scale war.
IBTL
9-19-05/1-7-07
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Reminds me of when the steel mills where torn down here in Pittsburgh.
The mall idea sucks!! At least we have used our "brownfields" to create housing and development.
First off, if I was going to buy a new vehicle, it would most definately be a GM product, but mostly because I'm not impressed with anything being produced by other companies.
Next, if your neighbor worked at McDonalds, would you be willing to pay $5 for a medium fries so that he/she could make $20/hr?
Personally, I believe the only people who should make more than K-12 teachers are people who willingly and knowingly risk their lives on a daily basis for the good of the whole.
Craig Lewis wrote:It might be that the POS branding that GM owns, justifies the owner to treat it as such in their mind.
Lol, I thought I was the only one who thought that. People are going to be more willing to have an oil change every 3 months on a $50k Benz than a $15k Cobalt (although the Benz will probably break down first anyway
).
In the end, if anyone is being paid too much, it's professional athletes and "actors", basically the entertainment industry. Money should go to necessities first. Imagine how many families could have health care with the $$$$$$ A-Rod brings in each game, or the cash Paris Hilton gets for an episode of her saying "hot" repeatedly...rediculous. From what I've heard, athletes used to play because they enjoyed the game...
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
