Toyota Beats GM Again ... - Other Cars Forum

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Toyota Beats GM Again ...
Wednesday, May 02, 2007 9:06 AM
Stolen from another board.


Take II: Toyota passes GM in sales ... AND in ... Recalls.

For quality. Say it isn't so?! But I thought Americans build crap cars and Toyota/Lexus built the best quality cars on the road? Not according to the facts (Businessweek, etc.). Read on and the next time someone tells you American built cars are crap, you can inform them otherwise. Feel free to pass on to friends.

Roger Simmermaker is the author of How Americans Can Buy American: The Power of Consumer Patriotism. He also writes "Buy American Mention of the Week"
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Thunder on the Tundra: Toyota Trucks Ahead in 2007 Recalls

If you've merely done a moderate amount of Internet surfing or cracked open a newspaper lately - just about any newspaper - you've undoubtedly seen the news that Toyota has once again passed Ford in worldwide auto sales and may pass GM sometime this year.

But what you may not have seen is that Toyota has already passed both Ford and GM in a different category - automotive recalls.

Although we've barely passed mid-February, Toyota has already recalled! 533,417 vehicles this year in a mix that, according to www.AutoRecalls.us, includes Tundras Sequoias and Camrys. That puts Toyota on track to recall more than the over 1.76 million autos they recalled in the U.S. and Japan in 2006, and the 2.2 million they recalled in 2005 when they recalled more cars than they built.
What's more, the current recall related to the Turdra trucks and Sequioa SUVs is similar to the same defect in 800,000 of the same vehicles in 2005.
Maybe somebody at Toyota isn't paying attention?

Hopefully the American consumers are. Recall numbers by domestic companies (GM and Ford) so far this year are as follows: Ford, 128,163; Chevrolet, 4,829; and Pontiac, 1,602. Chrysler - a German company masquerading as an American company with plans to start importing cars from China in 2008 - has recalled 77,432 vehicles so far in 2007.

To be sure, high recall numbers are not good. Auto companies would much rather prefer high sales numbers instead. As I've already mentioned, the media is abuzz that GM may lose its crown this year to Toyota in worldwide auto sales. But for that to ever happen in the U.S. sales category, it's going to take several more years since GM has a U.S. market share of 24.3% compared to 15.4% for Toyota. Even Ford, despite their recent troubles, has a higher domestic market share than Toyota at 17.5%.

But if GM loses their worldwide crown this year, it may actually turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Here's why:

First, GM spent 17% less per vehicle this January compared to last January, which means they are more profitable on a per-unit basis. In fact, GM expects to report a profit for the most recent quarter.

Second, it may be good for GM to step aside temporarily, for now, and let Toyota take all the ammunition that is always aimed at the top dog of the industry so there is less pressure and fewer distractions. And when GM combines their more-solid profitability and their improved quality together, their public perception will also improve.

Then they can use these admirable qualities to prepare to surge back on top at the precise time Toyota is in the top slot with their recall surge in the news. Toyota's timing at being number one worldwide would create further skepticism about whether they really deserve their reputation for untarnished quality.

According to Business Week's January 22, 2007 issue, Toyota has recalled 9.3 million vehicles in the last three years, which is nearly four times the number of recalls in the three year period prior to 2004.

Other recent news that won't sit well with a Camry-conscious public is the class-action lawsuit recently settled by Toyota regarding ruinous oil sludge buildup
covering 3.5 million Toyota and Lexus (yes, Lexus) vehicles.

Optimistic statements by Toyota executives aren't going to cut it for long - particularly when they don't match well with reality. Denial in the Camry-company camp seems to be setting in. Toyota's North American president Jim Press recently disputed the suggestion that his company no longer enjoys a large lead in reliability over the American competition. Speculating on the thoughts of American car company well-wishers while speaking at the recent Chicago Auto Show,
Press said "I think there's some hope that the gap in quality is closing, but it really isn't."
Oh, really? That's a pretty strong comment considering Toyota recalled 1.27 million vehicles in one swoop in 2005, recording the biggest-ever recall in history for a Japanese car company.

But, recalls notwithstanding, the evidence that the quality gap is closing is pretty indisputable, and the evidence has been piling up for more than just the last couple of years. With the following facts, you can make your argument for American car quality fully bulletproof - even among your most ardent foreign car-defending friends.

* A February 10, 2003 Business Week told of how undeniable it was that GM cars are better built than they used to be. The article cited an improved J.D. Power quality ranking and a Consumer Reports recommendation for 13 of GM's vehicles (equal to 41% of their sales volume) compared to just five recommended GM vehicles for the previous year. The Chevy Impala beat the Camry in a quality survey, and Buick beat BMW.

* Business Week also reported September 23, 2003 that GM boosted its productivity 23% in six years while Toyota's productivity remained flat, and that GM's most-productive factories now beat Toyota's most-productive factories.

* A 2004 Consumer Reports ranking selected the Buick Regal as the most reliable among family sedans, beating the Toyota Camry, Honda Accord and Nissan Maxima. They also gave recommended ratings for four Ford models, including the Ford Focus.
* J.D. Power and Associates awarded Cadillac's Lansing Grand River assembly center its highest honor - the Gold Plant Quality Award - in 2004.

* An August 4, 2004 Wall Street Journal article said Toyota's lead in quality and reliability has narrowed in some segments and disappeared in others. Quality problems were reportedly "mushrooming."

* The Toyota Camry hasn't been awarded the best in its segment since the year 2000, but many Americans continue to regard it as the number one model in terms of quality. Toyota's Kentucky Camry plant was awarded with high initial quality rankings by J.D. Power from the late 1980s through the 1990s, but it plummeted to number 26 in 2002, improving to only number 14 in 2004, while two GM factories and one Ford factory took the top three spots that year.

* In a J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey of new 2004 cars, Chevy placed second behind Honda and Toyota sank to number three.

* As far back as at least 2003, Business Week has reported that American consumers regard certain foreign cars as better built than American cars, even when facts prove otherwise.

* Fast-forwarding to 2006, J.D. Power shows Mercury, Buick and Cadillac beat Toyota in a list of dependable cars. Two Buicks and a Mercury took the top three midsize car awards; Mercury, Ford and Buick took the top three large car awards; Ford took the midsize van award and the midsize truck award; and GMC and Cadillac took the large MAV (multi-purpose activity vehicle) and large premium MAV awards, respectively.
* In an article about trust issues, Business Week's December 11, 2006 issue stated "GM's quality nearly equals Toyota's." Perceived quality among the American public is another story, however. The difference between the actual quality of American cars and the perceived quality of American cars is the "perception gap."

* In the same article, J.D. Power's director for retail research said "Actual quality is so close." discussing the quality rankings of GMC, Chevrolet and Cadillac placing them on par with both Honda and Toyota.

* And most recently, of course, the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan beat the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry according to Consumer Reports.
What's needed among automotive senior executives, and much of the media as well, is a return to intellectual honesty. Everyone tends to have their favorites and biases (mine are pretty obvious) but I pride myself in sticking with the facts to back up my comments.

When Toyotas North American president says that the quality gap isn't really closing, he's not being intellectually honest.
Some editorial writers aren't either. When Douglas Brinkley trumpeted Indiana's success in a Wall Street Journal article last year for attracting a Honda plant to their state - even though it took $140 million in tax credits and incentives - he wasn't what you would call "intellectually honest." In an apparent attempt to convince the reader that Honda doesn't send any automobiles to the U.S. from outside the country, he said the
following: "Turning farm fields into factories, that's what Henry Ford used to do. Today, in the heartland, it's being done by Honda - a company that doesn't manufacture imports but builds American-made cars."

Such statements lead the reader to think that some Japanese companies make all of their cars in the USA. Hardly. In fact, according to a January 8,
2007 Wall Street Journal article, the NAP ratio - a ratio that compares how many cars are built in North America vs. the number of cars imported - is slipping for Toyota. And according to Toyota internal documentation, the ratio is going to worsen next year.




Re: Toyota Beats GM Again ...
Wednesday, May 02, 2007 9:31 AM
gooooood info!





Re: Toyota Beats GM Again ...
Wednesday, May 02, 2007 9:32 AM
go TOYOTA

as ford say quaility is job #1 , ahahahahahahaa








Re: Toyota Beats GM Again ...
Wednesday, May 02, 2007 10:04 AM
This is obviously lies pushed by the US government to destroy the Japanese Automotive industry.... oh wait, it's the American Automotive Industry they are trying to destroy.





Re: Toyota Beats GM Again ...
Wednesday, May 02, 2007 12:56 PM
Capo di tutti capi wrote:This is obviously lies pushed by the US government to destroy the Japanese Automotive industry.... oh wait, it's the American Automotive Industry they are trying to destroy.


I think the industry is doing a bang up job in destroying itself. It's only been what? 30 years that economists have been telling them to be careful, mind their markets and stop being wasteful and badly managed. None of the companies listen.

Besides, this is worldwide sales that GM is down in. Look at the cars that Toyota sells and look at the cars that GM sells and tell me which one are more universally acceptable in almost any country? You can sell a Yaris or Corolla anywhere, but can you say the same about an Impala or Monte-Carlo? American car makers make vehicles that are notoriously centric to their market while Japanese car makers have global vehicles. Every time GM spends money on cars bigger than a Cobalt or Malibu that have V6's and V8's they're wasting money on a car that can only be sold in North America. Toyota may make ugly cars, but those ugly cars can be sold almost anywhere and if you sell a gazillion you'll eventually make a profit.

GM needs to refocus for a minute and look at the profit numbers. That's probably one of the reasons why they're getting scared about changing everything to RWD. It'd be yet ANOTHER bunch of cars that couldn't be sold anywhere except here, Australia, China and maybe Europe (in tiny quantities).



Re: Toyota Beats GM Again ...
Wednesday, May 02, 2007 1:19 PM
Knoxfire wrote:
Capo di tutti capi wrote:This is obviously lies pushed by the US government to destroy the Japanese Automotive industry.... oh wait, it's the American Automotive Industry they are trying to destroy.


I think the industry is doing a bang up job in destroying itself. It's only been what? 30 years that economists have been telling them to be careful, mind their markets and stop being wasteful and badly managed. None of the companies listen.

Besides, this is worldwide sales that GM is down in. Look at the cars that Toyota sells and look at the cars that GM sells and tell me which one are more universally acceptable in almost any country? You can sell a Yaris or Corolla anywhere, but can you say the same about an Impala or Monte-Carlo? American car makers make vehicles that are notoriously centric to their market while Japanese car makers have global vehicles. Every time GM spends money on cars bigger than a Cobalt or Malibu that have V6's and V8's they're wasting money on a car that can only be sold in North America. Toyota may make ugly cars, but those ugly cars can be sold almost anywhere and if you sell a gazillion you'll eventually make a profit.

GM needs to refocus for a minute and look at the profit numbers. That's probably one of the reasons why they're getting scared about changing everything to RWD. It'd be yet ANOTHER bunch of cars that couldn't be sold anywhere except here, Australia, China and maybe Europe (in tiny quantities).



You're wrong on several points.

GM worldwide sales are not down. They are just less than Toyota.

Quote:

Toyota announced today that its worldwide sales reached 2.35 million cars and trucks in the first quarter; G.M. had previously announced its total of 2.26 million vehicles in the same period.
From NYT, Toyota Tops G.M. in Sales for First Time, April 24th, 2007

Quote:

The Detroit automaker said it sold 2.26 million vehicles worldwide in the quarter. Sales were up 67,000, or 3 percent, compared with the first quarter last year. GM's global market share is estimated at 13 percent, compared with 13.1 percent a year ago.
From Detroit News, General Motors posts record global sales in first quarter

Also from Detroit News,
Quote:

Chevrolet, GM's largest division, gained 3.8 percent to 1.04 million vehicles last quarter, GM said. A 33 percent jump in European sales helped offset a 4.7 percent decline in North America.

GM is seeing substantial gains in Europe, and else where. I guess that must mean they build different cars in Europe (we all know that) which ARE NOT centric to the US market.
GM builds global vehicles.


Quote:

In Canada, Toyota still trails GM, which managed to sell twice as many cars in the first quarter:

* GM: 81,000
* Daimler Chrysler: 53,000
* Ford: 45,000
* Toyota: 36,000
From CTV.ca

I'm going to say that Canada likes it's 'merican cars more than Toyota's. GM sells twice as many cars there.



Re: Toyota Beats GM Again ...
Wednesday, May 02, 2007 2:49 PM
Knoxfire, if you haven't noticed, most of GMs world market cars are not currently sold in the US.
They are start to move in that direction however.
Opel, Vauxhall, Holden all have a large variety of cars and many of which are not sold here.

So pretty much, waht Capo said.



05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.767@109.93
Re: Toyota Beats GM Again ...
Wednesday, May 02, 2007 3:15 PM
Canadians love earth tones, that's why we're fans of the red white and blue

Seriously though, what I meant was that GM has two or three "sets" of cars depending on the Market and Toyota essentially has one. The cars it sells here are not wildly different than their asian counterparts. So a Japanese guy coming to America could buy a virtual clone of the car he drove back home. You follow? Yet the GM's sold in other countries aren't available here, which means it's different tooling and platforms (although they are doing the platform sharing thing more) and all that. So it costs more MONEY. It's expensive to cater to each market. GM does that, Toyota doesn't. It sells cars that are acceptable to Americans and Asians and Europeans and Australians. Go to any country and look for the old Celica for example. It's the SAME car in every single country. Same thing with the Yaris. The name might change and some trim and the engine choice but that's about it. Think about how much money that saves the company. Go to every country and even if you find a GM product, it's highly different in each country. Which means more money spent on tooling and licenses. More money spent on production since cars share few body panels. Almost every car sold in North America is completely absent in other countries. Which means that GM absorbs a lot more costs overall.

Then again having a world car can backfire. Look at the mess Ford made with the Focus and the Mondeo. Yet the problem with Ford is that they tried forcing european cars to American tastes, which isn't at all what Toyota's doing. Instead they've made cars that appeal Globally. They're ugly as hell and unexciting and, apart from the engine/trans durability, uninteresting to people like us. Yet they're "okay". You could imagine buying one with the wife to drive kids around. The same way that Toshio Hikaru in Japan can imagine doing the same with his wife. It makes for boring cars, but it also makes for profitable ones.

GM could take a lesson from that. It's all I'm saying.

Either way, I'm a Ford guy. So it's not like I'm picking sides.



Re: Toyota Beats GM Again ...
Wednesday, May 02, 2007 3:26 PM
Knoxfire, this is how GM held a record first quarter, this is what GM says:

GM Announces Record First Quarter Global Sales of More Than 2.2 Million Vehicles

-Growth in China Fuels 20 Percent Asia/Pacific Region Climb
-Brazil, Colombia, Argentina and Venezuela Growth Spurs A Sales Surge of 17 Percent In The Latin America, Africa and the Middle East Region
-Russian Sales Increase More Than 127 Percent to Set European Record; Chevrolet Has Record European Q1, With Sales Exceeding 100,000 Vehicles
-Sales Leadership Shown in Emerging Markets

General Motors sold a record 2.26 million cars and trucks around the world in the first quarter of 2007, according to preliminary sales figures released today. GM global first quarter sales were up 67,000 vehicles, or 3 percent, compared with sales of 2.19 million in the first quarter 2006. Global market share is estimated at 13.0 percent, compared with 13.1 percent a year ago.

"GM posted record sales in the first quarter driven by exceptionally strong demand in emerging markets," John Middlebrook, GM vice president, Global Sales, Service and Marketing Operations, said today. "We saw more than 20 percent growth in the Asia/Pacific region and had 17 percent growth in the Latin America, Africa and Middle East region. We're also very pleased to see 6 percent growth in Europe where we sold more than a half-million vehicles and established a new sales record."

Chevrolet, HUMMER and Cadillac are showing signs of global success.

Chevrolet global sales of 1.04 million vehicles were up 4 percent compared with a year ago. The brand grew by 33 percent in Europe, 12 percent in Asia-Pacific and 19 percent in Latin America, Africa and the Middle East.

GM also retains its strong luxury truck portfolio growth, evidenced by HUMMER sales that grew 37 percent in the Latin America, Africa and the Middle East region. Globally, HUMMER recorded 15,000 vehicle sales. With the Hummer H2 mid-cycle enhancement, addition of the V8-powered H3 Alpha in North America and start of production of the right hand-drive H3 in South Africa, HUMMER products are well-positioned to respond to demanding customers' needs.

Cadillac posted a sales increase outside of North America in the first quarter, thanks to 89 percent sales growth in Europe, a 55 percent increase in Latin America, Africa and the Middle East and 47 percent growth in Asia/Pacific.

Several of GM's regional brands also experienced notable growth in the first quarter of 2007.

Opel and Vauxhall sold 443,000 vehicles in the first quarter of the year. Vauxhall was up 6.3 percent and Opel was up about a half percent with 1,200 more vehicles sold this year under those nameplates compared with Q1 2006. The brands achieved segment leadership with Meriva and Zafira - in the monocab segment - and second position with Astra in the popular compact segment.

Saturn sales in the United States and Canada were up 19 percent, based largely on the popularity of the new 2007 Aura, Sky, Vue and Vue Green Line Hybrid and Outlook crossover utility vehicle. Saturn expects stronger sales this year as it continues the launch of the Outlook crossover and welcomes the Ion small-car replacement, Astra. Saturn is undergoing the most extensive product renaissance in its history.

GM Daewoo sales of 35,000 vehicles were up 31 percent, outpacing South Korea's strong market growth on the back of its Winstorm SUV and Tosca medium car.

Global sales highlights include:

-First quarter 2007 global sales of 2.26 million vehicles, up 3 percent, set a record for first quarter sales.

-At 1.36 million vehicles, Q1 2007 sales outside of the United States accounted for about 60 percent of GM's total global sales, growing at close to 10 percent compared with Q1 2006, outpacing the industry average growth rate of 5 percent. Global industry sales of 17.41 million vehicles were up 3 percent. The industry has seen a 10 million vehicle increase in the global automotive market in the past five years, and the market should hit almost 70 million in 2007.

-In the Asia/Pacific region, GM sales of 388,000 vehicles were 20 percent higher than the previous year's first quarter, and GM China sales of 290,000 vehicles posted a more than 25 percent sales increase compared with 2006. GM remained the top-selling automaker in China and sold 100,000 vehicles in a month for only the second time. GM sales in the region set a record for the quarter and exceeded industry growth levels.

-In the Latin America, Africa and Middle East region, GM sales reached an industry-best 269,000 vehicles, a record for Q1 and up 17 percent in volume compared with 2006. GM saw volume increases in 10 Latin America, Africa and Middle East markets in the first quarter of 2007. Sales in Brazil were up 12 percent for the quarter.

-In Europe, GM also set a quarterly sales record with deliveries of 554,000 vehicles, up 6 percent. Growth in Russia, up 128 percent, led the increase. Cadillac, Corvette, HUMMER, Saab and Chevrolet set European sales records for their brands. Chevrolet achieved record sales of 101,000 vehicles, up 33 percent.

**Note**: Global sales results are based on preliminary numbers reported and have been rounded.

FOR RELEASE: 04-19-2007




>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----

Re: Toyota Beats GM Again ...
Thursday, May 03, 2007 5:40 AM
Quote:

GM posted record sales

But at the same time set records with the amount of employees they let go.
Re: Toyota Beats GM Again ...
Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:53 AM
I'm supposed to care that GM is laying off people because?

Sorry, but:
1. Companies do that from time to time, for various reasons. Sucks if you lost your job, but stuff happens.
2. Would you rather GM cut 10,000 jobs or go belly up and have, what, 100,000 people out of work?
3. - Or - Would you rather pay $25k for a base Cobalt.

Layoff's are a business decision. Bob Lutz didn't go into the factory and look at a bunch of people and go, "I don't like your face, don't come to work tommorow"






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