Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts? - Other Cars Forum

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Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Friday, April 20, 2007 2:45 PM
And what I mean by "Collectible" is a car whose value will hit the high 5 figures at the very least without taking into account inflation or any of that crap. I'm talking about the Hemicuda phenomenon, where the Hemicuda is worth almost twice that of the 440 Six Barrell Cuda and the Six Barrel Cuda is worth a good 20 grand more than a normal 440 and even the basic engine Cuda is worth as much as a brand new fairly expensive car.

However, unless we're talking Aston-Martin or Ferrari, cars that have that sort of appeal to rich car collectors completely dissapear from the radar once you hit 1975. This is part due to the fact that most musclecars were gone in 1975 and what was left sure as hell wasn't too pretty. You could still get a 200hp car but eeeeeeesh... Just look at the hideous Roadrunner from 1975 to see what I mean.

Anyway, my point is, will any car from that era increase in value to something approaching the golden age of musclecars? Personally, I haven't been much movement on that front. Take the 1987 Buick GNX for example, you see them on eBay with the guy trying to get 80 grand off of them, but there's always zero bids. Then you see the same car a month later for 70 grand, still zero. Same car a month later, 60 grand... a few bids, but his reserve is obviously 70k. If that thing was a hemicuda it'd have been sold a hundred times over, yet a GNX with not even 11 thousand miles on it can't sell. The reason I mention the GNX is because it's one of those cars that was intended as a collector car. From the minute it rolled off the assembly line there were only supposed to be 547 and guys got hard ons thinking about the car. They were bought up in a short time and all went into heated garages with humidity controls, and that's why I think the car won't ever enter the musclecar price realm. Because out of the 547 that were made, all 547 are identical and 547 are left. And they're all in as good of a shape as the car I linked to on eBay. Musclecars shot up in price because there's maybe 10% left of them.

Just look at this list of production figures for the 1970 Barracuda.

Total 50,617 *includes 2,724 AAR's

Hardtop 6 cyl 5,668
Hardtop 8 cyl 17,819
Hardtop Gran Coupe 6 cyl 210
Hardtop Gran Coupe 8 cyl 7,184
Hardtop 'Cuda 8 cyl 17,242*
Convertible 6 cyl 223
Convertible 8 cyl 1,169
Convertible Gran Coupe 6 cyl 34
Convertible Gran Coupe 8 cyl 518
Convertible 'Cuda 8 cyl 550

Well, do the math. They made 17,242 Cuda's? That means there's about 1,724 left. Maybe there's more, I'm sure that theres more, but they ain't falling out of trees either, and Cuda clones would pad out the numbers. But you just have to look at most of the cars being sold, nearly all of which are automatics, and realize that most Cudas had MANUAL transmissions to realize how hard a life these cars led. So if you take into account originality, color variation (not all of them were red or black or yella) transmission and engine type, a 1970 Cuda of any kind becomes a helluva lot more rare than any Buick GNX.

So for the GNX to become as rare as a true muscle car, there would have to be 54 or 55 left. That's never going to happen, and the kind of people who would think about buying it and have the money to buy it, have tons of other cars to choose from. Detroit made maybe 10 million cars between the year 1955 and 1975 that would quality as heavily collectible or desirable and even if only 10% are left that still leaves a good million. So there's plenty left to go around. Toss in clone cars and you can double those numbers.

Then you have to think of WHY some cars become collector pieces, and I think I have the answer. It's a stupid answer, but I think it's totally true. Because they're cool. Because at one time someone lusted after them and they decided that when they'd have the money, when they grew up, when they got the chance, they'd buy one.

How else could you explain how a rare one off prototype 1971 AMC Gremlin with a Boss 351 that runs on hydrogen built by Cal-Tech in 1971, with almost no mileage at ALL, went for like 20 thou? How else could you explain how NASCAR racecars rolling chassis in damn good shape who had been owned by some famous people fail to sell beyond 10 thou? How else could you explain why super rare funnycars bodies from 1970's (when they were at their wildest and coolest) fail to get any sort of attention at all?

Cars in the late 70's and 80's did not inspire much desire, and those that did tended to be a lot better taken care of than their 1960 counterparts. You rarely see a Mustang 5.0 as a rusted out hulk. Unlike the earlier era, the modern musclecar has a 60 or 75% survival rate, more if you take in the rarer models. Most Dodge Dakota Shelby's for example are still around. As are most Grand Nationals and Monte-Carlo SS'. People don't throw away cars like they did back in the early 70's.

So what's collectible? What's rare enough to warrant paying 100k or more for it? The GNX, for all my harping, will probably be one of the few. Probably the 1991-92 Pontiac Firehawk. The 1993 Ford Mustang Cobra and Cobra R. F-body convertibles. Those Shelby GLHS cars in 1986 and 1987. I don't know what else... whatcha all think?

Non-Detroit iron will also probably become massively collectible as well. Probably moreso than their American counterparts since so few were kept in good shape and most of these cars rusted all to hell. I'll bet that the 1984-87 Toyota Corolla GTS and 1984-91 Honda CRX Si will be worth a pretty penny one day.






Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Friday, April 20, 2007 3:04 PM
Its a guessing game.
No ones knows.
The GNs already are already and Turbo T/As.

Hell they only made between 11000 and 17000 GTOs per year does that mean they will be huge collectibles, who knows.



05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.767@109.93
Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Friday, April 20, 2007 3:31 PM
Any Indy 500 pace car will always be a "moderate" collectible. However, the '84 and '85 Indy pace cars were a Pontiac Fiero and an Olds Cutlass Calais, which does put them at the bottom of the food chain in terms of pace cars, but does elevate one "cult" vehicle and one grocery-getter level vehicle to "collectible" status.

Other "quirky" vehicles that could become moderately collectible:

1988 Fieros, particularly Formulas or GTs
W-Body Convertibles
1989-1991 Turbo Grand Prix or Grand Prix STE Turbos
W41 Calais/Achievas
AWD Pontiac 6000s
AWD Ford Tempos
1986 Ford Escort Turbo
1993 Dodge Daytona IROC R/T
1992-93 Toyota Celica All-Trac
Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
1980's Monte Carlo/Grand Prix Aerocoup
1980's Firebird Notchback
1990 Chrysler TC by Maserati
Buick Reattas, particularly convertibles
Cadillac Allantes
Intact 1970s Turbo Trans Ams (most people didn't "get" the point of a turbo, and ripped them out for favor of big V8s)
Mitsubishi Starions/Chrysler Conquests

Add those to the list of the obvious vehicles:

Trans Am Firehawks/Camaro SSs
Corvette ZR-1s
1993 Mustang SVT Cobra
1989 Turbo Trans Am
1991(?) Dodge Viper (first production year, IIRC)
1994-96 Impala SS (*drool*)
TT RX-7s
TT Supras
TT 300ZXs
TT Stealths/3000GTs
GMC Cyclone/Typhoon (Marlboro Cyclone, *drool*)

Like it was said above, it's all a crapshoot.




1989 Z24 Convertible - Dust Covered
2006 tC - Dust Covered, but driven more
Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Friday, April 20, 2007 3:50 PM
Crap shoot definitely...

C4 Corvette
GNX
ANY production group B rally car.
MK III Turbo/MK IV turbo Supra




Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Friday, April 20, 2007 4:09 PM
ZlineDavid wrote:Any Indy 500 pace car will always be a "moderate" collectible. However, the '84 and '85 Indy pace cars were a Pontiac Fiero and an Olds Cutlass Calais, which does put them at the bottom of the food chain in terms of pace cars, but does elevate one "cult" vehicle and one grocery-getter level vehicle to "collectible" status.

Other "quirky" vehicles that could become moderately collectible:

1988 Fieros, particularly Formulas or GTs
W-Body Convertibles
1989-1991 Turbo Grand Prix or Grand Prix STE Turbos
W41 Calais/Achievas
AWD Pontiac 6000s
AWD Ford Tempos
1986 Ford Escort Turbo
1993 Dodge Daytona IROC R/T
1992-93 Toyota Celica All-Trac
Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
1980's Monte Carlo/Grand Prix Aerocoup
1980's Firebird Notchback
1990 Chrysler TC by Maserati
Buick Reattas, particularly convertibles
Cadillac Allantes
Intact 1970s Turbo Trans Ams (most people didn't "get" the point of a turbo, and ripped them out for favor of big V8s)
Mitsubishi Starions/Chrysler Conquests

Add those to the list of the obvious vehicles:

Trans Am Firehawks/Camaro SSs
Corvette ZR-1s
1993 Mustang SVT Cobra
1989 Turbo Trans Am
1991(?) Dodge Viper (first production year, IIRC)
1994-96 Impala SS (*drool*)
TT RX-7s
TT Supras
TT 300ZXs
TT Stealths/3000GTs
GMC Cyclone/Typhoon (Marlboro Cyclone, *drool*)

Like it was said above, it's all a crapshoot.


David its Syclone not Cyclone tisk tisk



Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Friday, April 20, 2007 4:33 PM
Oh go shove your tongue in an electrical outlet Geeds.




1989 Z24 Convertible - Dust Covered
2006 tC - Dust Covered, but driven more
Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Friday, April 20, 2007 4:34 PM
syclone and typhoon of course

the early 80's hurst olds cutless's

maybe the shelby daytona's

Cadillac Allantes

96 cavalier, blue with grey bumpers

78-81 malibu's will be somwhat valuable, but most are already ripped apart and turned into drag cars





Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Friday, April 20, 2007 4:50 PM
psychlown, Thai-food?







Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Friday, April 20, 2007 4:56 PM
Well, as far as collectibles go. Just about any car is collectible. What I meant was the 6 figure, Jay-Leno-has-one, type of collectibles. The cars that will soar up into the stratosphere. ZlineDavid had some good suggestions but I really don't think an AWD Tempo is ever going to be a 100,000$ car. There's a difference between rarity and desirability. Just look at the 1964-66 Mustang, people love those cars and everyone dreams of owning one, but Ford made 2 million of them. So of all the cars in the 60's it's probably the most affordable and common model of musclecar. Prices rarely go above 15 thousand and then usually for something really unique like an all original low mileage convertible with a manual tranny and the K-code 289 V8.

I think the same thing will happen to a lot of 80's cars like the Mustang 5.0 or the Monte-Carlo SS. There were a ton made and most of them are still on the road. They're not exclusive or hard to find. Same thing with the 1994-96 Impala SS. GM put the LT1 engine in every Caprice made that year. Hardly rare.

Other cars are rare, but I can't figure why they'd be desirable. Like the 1989 Dodge Shelby Dakota with its ridiculous 153hp V8. You can buy a 1993 Dakota with the same engine for a heckuva lot less and you'll get 230hp. The Shelby's "neat" but is it worth 10,000$ or more? A lot of 80's cars are like that.

I also think that one of the reasons people love 60's cars so much was that most late 70's and early 80's cars were so crappy. That didn't happen with the 80's musclecar boom, every year was a distinct improvement over the last. A 1989 Iroc Z is better than a 1982 for example and a 1993 Camaro Z/28 is better than the '89 and the 2002 was better than the 93. Every year things improved. Unlike how in 1975 the bottom just fell out of the horsepower wars.



Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Friday, April 20, 2007 4:59 PM
I have a feeling T-Bird Supercoupes will become collectables in my lifetime. They are getting harder and harder to find, running ones in good shape are hard to find. Pristine examples are even harder...that's why long after i buy my 2009 Camaro i'll hang onto my t-bird.



"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net

Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Friday, April 20, 2007 5:37 PM
Jookycola wrote:I have a feeling T-Bird Supercoupes will become collectables in my lifetime. They are getting harder and harder to find, running ones in good shape are hard to find. Pristine examples are even harder...that's why long after i buy my 2009 Camaro i'll hang onto my t-bird.

read knoxfires last post.

And yes, coolness factor has alot to do w/ it. That and the fact that people that are a little older and remember there younger years have money now. The car restorers know this now so they will restore what is in demand for the most part.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, April 20, 2007 5:39 PM


05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.767@109.93

Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Friday, April 20, 2007 5:55 PM
mustang svo's and thunderbird turbo coupes are gona be big as most people pull the 2.3 turbo and drop in a 5.0 so they are hard to find i had an 89 mustang with an svo engine and that thing was fun as hell would kill 5.0 mustangs all day



Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Friday, April 20, 2007 5:55 PM
A 7M Supra that runs.






Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Friday, April 20, 2007 6:02 PM
JinxedZ THE LOVED ONE wrote:A 7M Supra that runs.


did they ever make such a thing?





Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Friday, April 20, 2007 7:39 PM
trevor mullins wrote:mustang svo's and thunderbird turbo coupes are gona be big as most people pull the 2.3 turbo and drop in a 5.0 so they are hard to find i had an 89 mustang with an svo engine and that thing was fun as hell would kill 5.0 mustangs all day


Yeah, but again, does anyone want one? You gotta take into consideration that they also made the Mustang SVO and the Merkur XR4Ti which are much more desirable to a car guy. The cars that cost the huge bucks today embody several factors. 1) They're still cool today 2) They were/are rare 3) They were popular then and now 4) They weren't babied and kept in garages so survivors are few 5) They've built up a legend over time 6) They have a "cool" factor

Just look at the 426 Hemi engine. The engine itself has become the holy grail of collectors. Yet even that engine, if it's in a fairly ordinary car like a 1966 Plymouth Belvedere 2 door won't be worth more than 40 or 50 grand. Still a high price, but if the same engine was in a 1970 Cuda you could sell that damn thing just about any amount. Yet both cars are probably just as rare. It's just that one is more desirable than the other. Same thing happens with the T-Bird Turbocoupe VS the Mustang SVO.

It's not an easy thing to figure out, which is why it's so interesting to talk about with other car guys.



Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Friday, April 20, 2007 8:31 PM
My car will be.
Shall we start the bidding at $40,000?



05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.767@109.93
Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Friday, April 20, 2007 8:47 PM
DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) - BPU++ wrote:
JinxedZ THE LOVED ONE wrote:A 7M Supra that runs.


did they ever make such a thing?

Yeah, I have one.

If you want to buy, hit me up, and no, I'm not joking.





Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Friday, April 20, 2007 8:52 PM
The last style of RX-7 w/ tt.



05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.767@109.93
Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Saturday, April 21, 2007 8:14 AM
Get a 2002 Dick Harrell Camaro and you got yourself a collectors car.



Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:32 AM
89 z24 vert FTW hehe yeah right


my old 93 cutlass vert probably will be but I needed something else



Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:37 AM
Knoxfire wrote:Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?


My predictions.








>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----


Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Saturday, April 21, 2007 10:02 AM
1997 Ford Mustang Cobra R



Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Saturday, April 21, 2007 11:05 AM
?
You mean the 2000 Cobra R?



05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.767@109.93
Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Saturday, April 21, 2007 11:53 AM
^^ Ya I think they only made a 93, 95 and a 00 R model.



Re: Future Collectible Cars 1975 to 1997 - Thoughts?
Saturday, April 21, 2007 1:33 PM
i know this isnt wuite in the age range...but the2002 ZL1 camaro >>>>>>everything



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