Quote:

By Chris Demorro


The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.

Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.

Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/print_item.asp?NewsID=188


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, March 27, 2007 3:44 PM


05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.767@109.93

whoever wrote that is so misinformed on how toyotas synergy drive works, his article makes me laugh.

my brother is a toyota tech and can tell you first hand that this guy is dead wrong on how they work, oh and the prius lifespan is well over 100k, more like 300k, and your lucky to get 150k out of a POS hummer






You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan

(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)

http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/

How do you know how many miles you will get out of a prius or a hummer?
Honestly, you are just guessing. You have know clue what either was designed to obtain.
O and how do they work then? I would like to know and I am sure the writer would like to know as well.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, March 27, 2007 4:16 PM


05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.767@109.93

omg :::rolls eyes:::

Quote:

So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

Does he really think that the Aveo is the pinnacle of fuel efficiency? A car with a 1.6L with a little over 100 horses and weighs under 2500lbs and only does in 2007 27/37 manual and 26/34 auto.



>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----

how do they know how long one will last....its anyones guess, from my experience a toyota is a much higher quality than gm
the first article, the guy is dead wrong on how hybrids work. and are you seriously trying to tell me you beleive that a prius costs more to own than a hummer. come on. ok, a hummer costs 54k, a prius costs 21k, a hummer gets an average fuel rating based off of actual customer reports of 8mpg city and 14 highway, and a prius is about 50 mpg all around. just base vehicle price makes a prius better, let alone the fuel savings

but theres no point trying to argue with you, your just a GM brand loyal zombie. I sold my GM, best move of my life













You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan

(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)

Sounds like you are an import loyal zombie.

I doubt that the aveo is the pinnacle of fuel economy but it is one of the better cars for fuel economy.



05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.767@109.93

Also reread the article. Its costs in manufacturing/ mile not out of your pocket.

Also, if you would read the article it says estimated life expectancy. Its a fact that trucks last longer than cars.



05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.767@109.93

Sappy96 wrote:Its a fact that trucks last longer than cars.

for real, my brother's old silverado had over 300k when he sold it 4 years ago and we saw it on the road about 2 years ago still running good.

i @!#$ hate this whole GM ZOMBIE/ IMPORT ZOMBIE BULL@!#$... grow up dude. people should be picking cars based one what they like and what works well for them and their current famil situation... just because someone needs a new car and see's a toyota sienna and a mercury villager... they shouldnt be like, well the toyota has 300 % more space than the mercury, but im straight american car only so im going to spend more and get the merc.
the same thing goes for this whole prius thing. if they want to think their prius is helping the environment more than a chevy aveo let them go for it... but honestly the chevy aveo is a much better car for what you pay... compare the following

Aveo (2007)
cost: 13,000 (all options)
tank mileage: 380~ to tank
MPG: 30.5mpg avg
_____________

Prius(2005)
cost: 21,000 (well equipped)
tank mileage: 600 to tank
MPG: 50mpg avg
_____________


for the prius to come close the the aveo, the prius needs to spend on tank per month and the aveo needs to go through 4... and even then you wont notice anything until about 3 years after you get the prius... plus the prius kills the environment 10 X worse than the combustion engine only aveo... i think the whole thing is a pointless fight...

obviously the hummer isnt the most qualified... for this competition
Hummer
cost: 55000
tank mileage: 400 miles
MPG: 12.5mpg
_____________

Again, the #s are based on the materials to build the auto and their price. Not automatically MPG.



05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.767@109.93

Sappy96 wrote:I doubt that the aveo is the pinnacle of fuel economy but it is one of the better cars for fuel economy.

Better on fuel economy for GM you mean, not counting the Pontiac Vibe, right?
Sad really because my 1996 Sunfire was rated at 25/37 had 120HP/130TQ and weighed in at 2700lbs and considered a compact, not a sub-compact.
To even say the Aveo is fuel efficient is ridiculous and embarrassing. A car with that size, weight, displacement, power should not see under 30 city and 40 hwy, something Saturn was doing in the 90's. But then again we are talking about Daewoo technology.



>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----

holly crap, is that article a pice of crap. im not going to get too technical here, but this is a PERFECT example of media bias and loyalship to oil using skewed facts/stats and scare tactics.

(300k is the OVERLY generous life exp of a hummer)
(100k is the super conservative life exp of a prius)

this alone makes most of his stats innacurate. he either needs to run the same life exp for both or run the same scale. not have one estimated on the high end and the other on the low end.

a MUCH more accurate way to compare is to compare given both vehicles have the same life expectancy. For this would give you the true value/cost per mile not the relative cost per mile based on skewed life expectancies. Do people not realize this? obviously the numbers are going to be way off when you compare 300k to 100k. its common sense. using this for of stats skewing is unethical journalism and the staff writer should be let go. He also states 0 sources. given that if true this piece could be "groundbreaking" you would want to cite sources and get national coverage. so why didnt he? thats because his stats are skewed and out of context.

he says a prius costs $3.25 per mile over 100k
hummer costs $1.95 per mile over 300k

well if we take that same porportion of 1/3 and apply it to his calculated number to get an actual fair comparison this is what we get:
prius $3.25 per mile over 100k
hummer $5.85 per mile over 100k

would you look at that. when you actually use comparable statistics the conclusion actually makes sense. its amazing how well a clever journalist can conceal the truth using real statistics in an unethical way.



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now ill state some things abou t is info on nickel and nihm batteries


i could find NO information ANYWHERE on a deadzone around the plant in sadbury.
he says ALL nihm batteries come from sadburry but sadburry only has %30 of the worlds supply of nickel
sadbury plant does not just do things to make nihm batteries. nickel is used in MANY things, stainles steel, magnets, coinage etc...
nihm batteries can be recycled
burning of fossil fuels releases nickel in to the atmosphere

he also mention so2, which is not just released by processing nickel. so2 is released from all fossil fuels. so2 emmitted by powerplants has been greatly reduced after the epas acid rain program.


the guy is writting very unprofesional by skewing data SEVERELY and leading the uninformed reader to believe many of the pollutants and issues that he is bringing up are a direct result of nickel processing. which is untrue.



the entire piece is incorrect, there isnt much in it that is actually valid or appropriate for use in the way he used it.

american media, what do you expect. seems that



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now ill state some things abou t is info on nickel and nihm batteries


i could find NO information ANYWHERE on a deadzone around the plant in sadbury.
he says ALL nihm batteries come from sadburry but sadburry only has %30 of the worlds supply of nickel
sadbury plant does not just do things to make nihm batteries. nickel is used in MANY things, stainles steel, magnets, coinage etc...
nihm batteries can be recycled
burning of fossil fuels releases nickel in to the atmosphere

he also mention so2, which is not just released by processing nickel. so2 is released from all fossil fuels. so2 emmitted by powerplants has been greatly reduced after the epas acid rain program.


the guy is writting very unprofesional by skewing data SEVERELY and leading the uninformed reader to believe many of the pollutants and issues that he is bringing up are a direct result of nickel processing. which is untrue.



the entire piece is incorrect, there isnt much in it that is actually valid or appropriate for use in the way he used it.

american media, what do you expect. seems that conneticut university is nourishing this kind of skewed/biased/incorrect journalism. disgusting.



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^^ It doesn't say all nickel comes from that factory, just all nickel in a Prius battery does.

even so, it doesnt make a difference. he leads the reader to believe that the plant only produced nickel for nihm batteries that go into prius. and that that specific work has caused a deadzone and acid rain. when this is skewed and not the reality. all industrial processes pollute, in most cases badly. hence epa acts and such to limit pollution.

oil refineries cause pollution to make the gas and the ships cause pollution to carry the gas and the trains and the storage facilities use electricty that was made by a power plant that pollutes etc etc etc.

all industrial processess cause pollution at this time. at any point along the lines when you cut out a step or part of a step you reduce overall the environmental damage. ideally to make the least pollution you need all electric. in which case you still cause pollution because the plant to make the batteries and the plant to make the electricty to charge the batteries. however, you took out a step in which your CAR was making pollution, oil refinery making pollution, oil transportation makeing pollution etc... you see how they start balance and cross balancing etc...

no matter how you look at it, electric power is more efficient and less polluting. the only way to make it look contrary is to skew stats and data and only tell a partial story.

and dont get me wrong I actually dont agree with hybrids. i mean they are better than %100 fuel however, the goal needs to change to the more efficient, more powerfull, less polluting, renewable, electrical energy.




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Yes, pollution is everywhere, and this article is in Connecticut. You, sitting in a well lit room typing away is creating more pollution than needed over an article that will NOT be seen by 90+ percent of anyone it would make an impact on. Tell me if you see anyone trading in their Prius for a Hummer in the near future...

I don't see the big deal, even if this was in the NY Times. You obviously see the facade and I'm sure you're not the only one (I'm here too ') ).

1) ill vouch for the lifespan mileage of trucks. ive seen many trucks, including the road service trucks at my work, acheieve mileage that most cars can only deam of, and still be running quite well, most on thier origional engine and transmission. im talking well in excess of 200,000, sometimes well over 300,000 miles. of the relatively few cars that get to that point, very few are running very well. trucks are built with work in mind, and with weight as a minor consideration, therefore they tend to be built more robustly.


2) i just dont like hybrids, and the snotties that tend to drive them, so ill just leave that alone...


i myself prefer the european aproach to fuel economy of small displacement turbo deisels.


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First of all i live in Sudbury, Ontairo, and yes NASA did use our City as a simulated moon landing due to it being a "Dead Zone"

However that was back in the 50-60's. Since then INCO(Owner of the Mine) has been paying millions of dollars in Re-greening efforts to help fix the land. Sudbury has also won international awards for its re-greening efforts.

The main damage was done way back in the day when they used to just burn all Nckel in massive stacks of wood and rock. More damage was then created when a very short smoke stack was build. Since then a new Smoke Stack was built, which im pretty sure the largest, if not one of the largest Smoke Stacks in the world.

I can assure you that since new enviromental laws have limited the emissions of plants such as this, the City has rebounded dramatically.

That picture does show one of the remaining aspects of the polution, all the rocks in the city are black.

As an example of the work done:

Before:



After:



The first picture was taken in 1980 and the second in 1996. Thats how far it has come in 16 years, and 11 years have past since then.

And another picture... (you can see the Smoke Stack in the background of this picture)




So that article is pretty exagerated. End of story.

mikec2003 wrote:whoever wrote that is so misinformed on how toyotas synergy drive works, his article makes me laugh.

my brother is a toyota tech and can tell you first hand that this guy is dead wrong on how they work, oh and the prius lifespan is well over 100k, more like 300k, and your lucky to get 150k out of a POS hummer

What if the Hummer runs over the Prius?

i agree this article is bs but i really don't think that buying a hybrid is worth it

aveo,Xa,corolla etc... are all cheaper and honestly i think it will take a while, maybe longer than five years, so get your extra money you put into buying the prius back out of it. How many people now-a-days even keep a new car more than five years? not many

plus i love how people assume that b/c it's a toyota it will live well over 100K, these hybrid cars from any manufactuer really have not had true tests of years of weathering, wear and tear, and miles to see how long all those electrical parts really last....

Well, I had to read this one because of the title being just out there.

From the research done by everyone else who replied, I would agree that the article is a skewed bias. And to glorify the Hummer in any way deserves a swift kick to the kiwis. That line of vehicles is an extreme waste. The military should be the only ones using it and as little as possible. There is no need for a 40-year-old woman in her Juicy couture jumpsuit to be driving one of those massive things on the freeway. Get a stationwagon or something.

Trucks for the most part do have longer life-spans than cars, but I think Nathaniel made a good point with the 1/3 dynamic. On top of that, Newt's information on how Sadbury is in present day totally squashed the article.

I think it is better to be focused on keeping the earth cleaner, so I am all for hybrids. The technology is in its infancy. Our kids will probably be driving all electric cars and hybrids that get over 100 mpg. Thats just how things are progressing. But that is the key, progress. Without the current efforts to change how we propel cars, we would be screwed inevitably. And not even us, but we would be making the world worse for future generations. Its thinking beyond our every day lives that will help us get to where things need to be.

So, kudos to Sadbury for cleaning up their town and realizing the issues they caused. And I hope GM drops Hummer sooner than later, cause it does more harm than good.

Look at it this way, gas in my town is $3.45 a gallon..... THREE FORTY-FIVE PER GALLON!! No thanks. I'm saving for a Tesla roadster or just any new technology that will come to market soon because of progress of cars such as the Prius.

http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/

All of you blasting the article need to read where he got his infro from and what it states.
The point wasn't to glorify hummers it was to slam the prius.



05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447 12.767@109.93

that report is incredibly flawed.

I will pick out ONE small part that is blatantly incorrect.

they say part of the reason a hybrid is more in terms of $ per lifeimte mile than its non hybrid counter part is:
maintenance, replacement and disposal of electric motors and batteries.

nihm batteries are recyclable and should last the overall lifetime of the vehicle
electric motors need cirtually no maintenance and most likely not need to ever be replaced in the lifetime of the vehicle.

so what parts of that are they factoring in against a hybrid?

they also dont seem to factor in to $ per lifetime mile the gas used for each of those lifetime miles. just on as mileage alone you can see the difference. even using the skewed 1/3 proportion

gallons of gasoline used
h3: 300k/15mpg= 20,000 gallons of gasoline
prius : 100k/60mpg= 1,667 gallons of gasoline

cost of lifetime gallons used
(gas per gallon at $3.24)
h3 : 20,000*3.24= $64,800 in gasoline in lifetime of h3
prius= : 1,667*3.24= $5,401.8 in gasoline in lifetime of prius

it doesnt take a genius to see how much they are skewing their stats to hide these numbers so they dont ruin their biased motives. the numbers I am giving are unbiased and published.
shouldnt the cost per mile to drive that they are toting should include the cost of gasoline used to indeed drive? its obvious it doesnt. if it did there is no possible way a hummer would be cheaper to drive per mile than a prius JUST based on gase ALONE.








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