I would like to know what is the best setup to get better handling for my cavalier...
Strut bar??
Sway bar??
shock??
coil??
Thx
<img src="http://membres.lycos.fr/fuzymio/cavalier/signature.jpg" />
each one can help. but put them all on together and it feels like a different car
Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!
anything not stock ? ahha ... TIRES! springs/ shocks ... front strut bar and sways if you dont have them ... hmmm ... .all i have on mine is ... springs shocks, strut bar .. and stock sway bars ...
Here are your options and nice setups to get if you want to get a great suspension setup.
Strut Bars - Pretty much anyone you can find that fits a Jbody, they are all the same and do the same thing...really no difference in which company you go with. RSM & Vibrant are 2 companies that come to mind.
Sway Bars - Eibach sells a front and rear set that I hear is nice. There are other companies but don't really come to mind. You should have a stock front sway bar already so if you just want invest in just a rear sway, you can do that. Be careful in what size you get because if you get one big enough, it can cause over-steer, small enough can cause under-steer. Also, RK Sport makes a nice rear sway bar for the 3rd gens.
Springs/Coils - It really depends on how low you want to go, your preference really. Your options are straight springs or coilovers. Coilovers are more for if you want to change the height (so on and so forth). Honestly, straight springs will hold up better, they are usually stronger and have better spring rates. If you do want coilovers, the only company that really comes to mind is Weapon-R that sells them but there are many more out there.
There are tons of companies that make coilovers if that's what your truly interested in. If you want straight springs, you have the options of Eibach (once again). They have 2 kits, the Pro-Kit (which drops you 1.4 inches in the front/rear) or the Sportlines which give a nice aggressive drop (1.7 inch drop in the front, 2.3 inch drop in the rear). They are very popular in the J-body community and are very good products. I personally have the sportlines and love the drop and ride on these springs...I'd highly recommend them.
Struts/Shocks - If you do drop your car, really only 2 struts/shocks I would suggest, KYB AGXs & Konis (yellow or red). Both are adjustable and handle nicely with a low ride. The AGXs are more suitable for the Pro-Kit height, Konis can handle lower drops. These 2 are the best bang for the buck for the Jbodies.
There are way more companies that could be listed but these products that I listed are affordable, easy to find, come from reputable companies & have given great results in the J-body community.
Just to help you out, you can find some of these products at the following sites:
www.highrevmotorsports.com
www.rksport.com
www.jbodyperformance.com
www.ebay.com
www.gravanatuning.com
www.definedparts.com
Hope this has been informative for you. Good luck in your decision.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
thx everyone
<img src="http://membres.lycos.fr/fuzymio/cavalier/signature.jpg" />
I'm pretty much in the same boat as you in terms of wanting to improve handling first. From the advice I got, I decided to go with:
AGX adjustable struts - heard lots of good things about them, easier to install than koni yellows, and cost less. I got them for $350 off ebay which was the cheapest I could find.
Eiback Prokit Springs - most of the people I talked to said a 1.5" drop was pretty ideal and 1.4" prokit comes close to that. Heard lots of good things about them. The cheapest I found them was from car customs for $225 shipped.
I also decided to upgrade my wheels and tires to 225/45/17 max performance tires which should help.
One added note,
The AGX's are
warrantied only to a 1.5" drop with springs only (no coilovers). If you plan on a larger drop (1.5+) or plan on coilovers, go with Koni.
Kardain wrote:One added note,
The AGX's are warrantied only to a 1.5" drop with springs only (no coilovers). If you plan on a larger drop (1.5+) or plan on coilovers, go with Koni.
Good point about the warranty but that's why I also suggested them being a good set with the Eibach Pro-Kits and not the Sportlines.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
NJs Honda Killa wrote:
Good point about the warranty but that's why I also suggested them being a good set with the Eibach Pro-Kits and not the Sportlines.
Caught that now. Right at the end of your post.
4 hours sleep in the last 3 days = can't read too well.
I have Koni Yellows with Ground Control Coils.... My cav rides better than most higher end cars.
I am currently checking for some
Koni yellow
eibach pro kit (1.4" drop)
eibach front and rear sway bar kit
Any comments??
Thx!
<img src="http://membres.lycos.fr/fuzymio/cavalier/signature.jpg" />
thats a good start
Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!
mathieums wrote:I would like to know what is the best setup to get better handling for my cavalier...
Strut bar??
Sway bar??
shock??
coil??
Thx
Bah, forget sway bars, you get the wrong size and jsut by going down the highway and changing lanes you can flip your car.. go with a front strut, back makes no difference... just to even the look out... i would say go with Gravana's coilover Kit... either that or maybe the Ground Control kit... coil overs IMO are going to give you a better ride+you can adjust them.. Also A.15 has a good setup also peace
Scott Smith wrote:mathieums wrote:I would like to know what is the best setup to get better handling for my cavalier...
Strut bar??
Sway bar??
shock??
coil??
Thx
Bah, forget sway bars, you get the wrong size and jsut by going down the highway and changing lanes you can flip your car.. go with a front strut, back makes no difference... just to even the look out... i would say go with Gravana's coilover Kit... either that or maybe the Ground Control kit... coil overs IMO are going to give you a better ride+you can adjust them.. Also A.15 has a good setup also peace
I have a few problems with your last statement.
First, show me where you can flip your car changing a lane because you have a bigger rear sway bar than the front? There are lots of people who have different sized sway bars, even on the org. Having a bigger rear sway bar will just result in you over-steering a bit more, that is all. The worse that will happen is he's coming to a corner and turns and fish-tails a little bit.
Second, having strut bars does help, yes. The biggest improvement will be for him to put sway bars on and strut bars so they can work together in keeping the chassis stiffer and more stable. Sway bars are defenitley not a waste of money.
Third, coilovers aren't the best option if he's looking for great handling. Just because you can adjust something doesn't mean it's good. Coilovers are given a different spring rate so it allows it to be adjustable. Spring rates on straight springs (like Eibachs) are much better for handling.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
why is it that some of you insist that by changing the sway bars you'll kill your high speed handling? you will not. do yourselves a favor and read a book on how to make your car handle better.
also changing your swaybars will not make the car over or under steer. what they do is help the car remain level in turns so it doesn't leen or "sway" as much as it would if you didnt have them. bigger bars will keep the car from leening "swaying" more in corners.
the bigger the bar the flatter your car stays in turns allowing your tires to do the gripping on the road. if your car over/ under steers its cause of the tires not the bar.
when you replace the sway bar with a larger one and lower the car this will tend to make the chassis "flex" in hard cornering. this is where the strut tower braces come in
they help kepp the body rigid again allowing your tires to do there job better by keeping them square, flat, level, or however you want to call it with the road surface.
if anyone has any questions please feel free to ask. no i'm not an engineer but i did
used to be a g.m and a.s.e. certified master tech. so ask away and i'll help as much as i can.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
you mean the one that rk sport sells that conacts between the two lower control arms
or the one that goes behind your seats on the floor?
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
jackalope, thanks for correction about the oversteering.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
killa i hope you dont think i was being rude you should know me a little better then that.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
jackalope wrote:killa i hope you dont think i was being rude you should know me a little better then that.
Yeah of course not. When I'm wrong and someone corrects me, I don't get upset...I thank them cause I'd hate to keep saying the wrong info (especially in the newbies forum).
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
cool dont want any hard feelings dude.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
jackalope wrote:cool dont want any hard feelings dude.
No doubt
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
NJs Honda Killa wrote:Scott Smith wrote:mathieums wrote:I would like to know what is the best setup to get better handling for my cavalier...
Strut bar??
Sway bar??
shock??
coil??
Thx
Bah, forget sway bars, you get the wrong size and just by going down the highway and changing lanes you can flip your car.. go with a front strut, back makes no difference... just to even the look out... i would say go with Gravana's coil-over Kit... either that or maybe the Ground Control kit... coil overs IMO are going to give you a better ride+you can adjust them.. Also A.15 has a good setup also peace
I have a few problems with your last statement.
First, show me where you can flip your car changing a lane because you have a bigger rear sway bar than the front? There are lots of people who have different sized sway bars, even on the org. Having a bigger rear sway bar will just result in you over-steering a bit more, that is all. The worse that will happen is he's coming to a corner and turns and fish-tails a little bit.
Second, having strut bars does help, yes. The biggest improvement will be for him to put sway bars on and strut bars so they can work together in keeping the chassis stiffer and more stable. Sway bars are defenitley not a waste of money.
Third, coil-overs aren't the best option if he's looking for great handling. Just because you can adjust something doesn't mean it's good. coil-overs are given a different spring rate so it allows it to be adjustable. Spring rates on straight springs (like Eibachs) are much better for handling.
Ok... So a bit of sarcasm? and if he was going around a turn, why the hell would he wanna fish tail?? Like i said.. IMO i think sway bars are a waste unless your gonna track race or something... And wouldn't it make sense if he got the wrong sizes that he wouldn't have better handling, perhaps worse?
Scott Smith wrote:NJs Honda Killa wrote:Scott Smith wrote:mathieums wrote:I would like to know what is the best setup to get better handling for my cavalier...
Strut bar??
Sway bar??
shock??
coil??
Thx
Bah, forget sway bars, you get the wrong size and just by going down the highway and changing lanes you can flip your car.. go with a front strut, back makes no difference... just to even the look out... i would say go with Gravana's coil-over Kit... either that or maybe the Ground Control kit... coil overs IMO are going to give you a better ride+you can adjust them.. Also A.15 has a good setup also peace
I have a few problems with your last statement.
First, show me where you can flip your car changing a lane because you have a bigger rear sway bar than the front? There are lots of people who have different sized sway bars, even on the org. Having a bigger rear sway bar will just result in you over-steering a bit more, that is all. The worse that will happen is he's coming to a corner and turns and fish-tails a little bit.
Second, having strut bars does help, yes. The biggest improvement will be for him to put sway bars on and strut bars so they can work together in keeping the chassis stiffer and more stable. Sway bars are defenitley not a waste of money.
Third, coil-overs aren't the best option if he's looking for great handling. Just because you can adjust something doesn't mean it's good. coil-overs are given a different spring rate so it allows it to be adjustable. Spring rates on straight springs (like Eibachs) are much better for handling.
Ok... So a bit of sarcasm? and if he was going around a turn, why the hell would he wanna fish tail?? Like i said.. IMO i think sway bars are a waste unless your gonna track race or something... And wouldn't it make sense if he got the wrong sizes that he wouldn't have better handling, perhaps worse?
Read what jackalope said above. The times people fishtail is when there is an issue with their tires.
The only reason I used sarcasm was because I couldn't believe you would say that someone actually change a lane on the highway and the car flipped. That made absolutely no sense in my head...I wasn't sure if you were serious or not., I assumed you were serious.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Scott if you don't have them then you just don't know what other people are talking about. as for flipping the car over at high speed, you can do that allot easier with out the anti sway bars. I have literally slide around a corner all four tires sliding one way while I steered to compensate for it, this was at around 40-45 mph ( like driving on ice and you start to slide ) I didn't flip the car. if I was going much faster I would have rolled it over, but thing is if I had been in the same situation with a stock set up then I would have rolled it for sure. (BTW that whole thing was by accident, I don't normally push it that hard on a public road, I just didn't slow down as much as i should have ) doing suspension mods to the rear as well as the front is not just evening out the look. more people will look under your hood before they climb into your trunk to look at your STB, or crawl on the ground to look at your rear sway bar. here is a how they work thing for you think about:
Quote:
John Lenko:
What is a sway bar?
Anti-roll (or sway) bars improve lateral stability without stiffening normal suspension movement. Anti-roll bars minimize body roll, which stabilizes the tire contact patch for maximum traction. That's important because all of the weight and power of your vehicle is transmitted to the road over a mere handful of square inches called the tire contact patch. Most FWD street cars have moderate understeer (aka "PUSH"). The sway bars are designed to improve overall balance by the use of proportionately stiffer rear bars. The car will have a "neutral" feel, with a gentle push at its limits. The opposite of push or understeer is oversteer. Cars that exhibit this characteristic are said to be "loose" and are prone to spinning.
Compared to the upper strut tower bar, which is designed to increase structural rigidity, the rear sway bar is designed to prevent body roll from occuring in corners. This reduction of body roll prevents the transfer of weight to the outside edge of your car which can "throw" the rear end outward in a curve (a.k.a. "spinout").
The rear anti-sway bar attaches externally to your rear axle through four points. The bar sits directly underneath the rear axle, and mounts in two spots to the axle using polyurethane bushings and bolts on each of the mounts. The bar then curves 90 degrees on each side and curves towards the back of the car. The other two mounts attach to the rear spindle assembly near the rear brake drums with a special bracket included with the kit.
J-bodies do not come with a stock rear sway bar, but some models do come with a rear stabilizer bar. Aftermarket rear sway bars work with the stock rear stabilizer bar (you do not have to remove it).
Aftermarket front sway bars replace the OEM front sway bar. If you do not have a stock front sway bar you need to get the hardware kit off of a Cavalier/Sunfire that does have a stock front sway bar so the new front sway bar can be installed.
Anti-sway bars also exist for the front axle of the car. Some cars come with them stock; those with the FE1 suspension package comes with an 18mm front sway bar, and the FE2 package comes with a 22mm.
You must be careful when adding or changing these bars, because if the bar is too large in either the front or the rear, you will introduce either understeer or oversteer. The trick is to find a balance, or "neutral" handling condition, where the car neither "pulls" you inward through the turn nor "pushes" you outward through the turn. Oversteer (or "pulling") is mostly found on rear wheel drive cars, like the F-body. Understeer (or "pushing") is mostly found on front wheel drive cars, like the J-body.
Hellwig used to make a rear 19mm bar, which helped to create a more "neutral" handling when added, while keeping your stock front sway bar. The new Hellwig bar is 26mm. (25.4mm) RK Sport and JC Whitney sell the Hellwig bar.
ADDCO makes 25mm (25.4mm) rear anti-sway bars for the J-body.
Eibach makes a 22mm rear bar and a 25.4mm front bar, sold together as a package.
Quote:
Event
swaybars limit the amount the stock trailing axle ARMs flex. they def are effective. not sure if you have a swaybar, but the effect is highly noticable.
the factory bar does not take into effect the length of the arms which is a part of a swaybar... its ONLY welded under the V bar. for a swaybar to be effective, it needs A,B,and C which are the main long portions of the bar, as well as the arms that will extend from the bar. heres the equation for it.
the metal rod welded in factory, does not really do much at all, besides stabilize the long middle part of the trailing arm simply making it sturdy. the arms are where the leverage begins Points A and C in the diagram. the welded bar is affected VERY little by that, hence the reason almost EVERY swaybar company are making bars ATLEAST 22mm for ALL cavaliers. hellwig is oldschool, and was 19mm, but look around. rksport, eibach, mantapart, progressive technologies, addco, the last hellwig made...
all 22mm or larger rear bars. and its made for all cars.
when they made the trailing arm V shaped middle bar, back in the day it was thicker,(should see the one on my 83 cimmaron)
as time went on, it got thinner and more holes hence the reason for the bigger welded in bar. progressing over the years.... less material overall, but able to make it lighter, but just as strong.
self demo, tuck the middle and ring finger under you thumb and leave your pinky and index finger straight out... like making the rock and roll, "rock out and show me your devils" hand signal people do all the time especially at concerts.
place both of your extended fingers on a flat surface and move your hand left and right.
with your right hand, when you move it to the right, your pinky is pushing in. your index finger wants to push out towards the left (grabbing FROM the side its comming from opposite of where its going to)
when you switch directions, your index finger is now trying to resist pushing in, while your pink now has to resist pushing out.
like said in a turn, a single bump can jolt the car enough to where the wheel on the outside of the turn pushes inward sharply, if this would occur and the inner wheel stays the same, the car would undergo a quick time period of toe out overall.
hope that explains it better, if not, i can break out the diagrams from the books i have.
Sway bars do effect over-steer/ under-steer-to a degree, how much you notice it will depend on how much you push your car I have a smaller bar in the front and a larger bar in the rear. until I put on another stabilizer in the front (sub-frame brace) i had slight over-steer ( or rear tires broke loose first ) to neutral at the limit. My bars are fairly close in size so it wasn't severe. like said above grab a book, read the FAQ in the suspension section, ask questions once your more informed.
How Stuff Works
FYI Eibach have progressive spring rates so there is no one set rate , as apposed to to stock or springs that come with coil-overs which have a single spring rate. in the case of coil overs it is really needed to keep you from bottoming out the car when you are at a lower spring seat setting.
okay now I need food and coffee
