Can Any One help me understand WHY this is happening?????


2003 cavalier 2.2L EcoTec 5 Speed
Intake, Exhaust, Lower motor Mount, Extra Grounds, Tint, Z24 16" Rims, 144.2 DB in the trunk all done!!!!

More to come.....

Why WHAT is happening?





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I have killed several second gear syncros and one diff, but that is because I abuse mine.

the diff blew a couple holes in the casing this time I patched the one that I could see (it was about the size of a pea) and I put fluid in it now its leaking out of the bellhousing after I get a quart and a half in it. I am guessing its something to do with the diff anyways because of were the crack that I patched was. I don't know were the hole in the bell housing is cuz the tranny is still in the car. Any help is much appreciated


2003 cavalier 2.2L EcoTec 5 Speed
Intake, Exhaust, Lower motor Mount, Extra Grounds, Tint, Z24 16" Rims, 144.2 DB in the trunk all done!!!!

More to come.....

Michael Siefers wrote:the diff blew a couple holes in the casing this time I patched the one that I could see (it was about the size of a pea) and I put fluid in it now its leaking out of the bellhousing after I get a quart and a half in it. I am guessing its something to do with the diff anyways because of were the crack that I patched was. I don't know were the hole in the bell housing is cuz the tranny is still in the car. Any help is much appreciated

Holes dont just come from nowhere.......... put the wrench down before you hurt yourself.

May be you should pick up a wrench, I said they came from around were the diff. is located inside the casing I am just trying to understand why the diff would have failed. I know that I can get inserts and/ or replace the entire diff but is that going to strengthen the diff enough not to fail. I am not running a built motor or anything, I just like the smell or rubber every now and then. Oh ya and every time the tires spun with every f23 getrag I have had now it has allways been posi so I don't really understand the advantage of the lsd???


2003 cavalier 2.2L EcoTec 5 Speed
Intake, Exhaust, Lower motor Mount, Extra Grounds, Tint, Z24 16" Rims, 144.2 DB in the trunk all done!!!!

More to come.....

Ok.... ive seen 1 f23 diff fail. Wheel hop killed it. So most likely the same happened with yours. Wheel hop is bad... really bad. That shaking your get in your dash when you "burn rubber" is wheel hop.

I know of 2 for sure 400 hp cars that race on drag radials/or will be and they have not broken their f23 diffs yet. Both of which are mid 12 second cars.

You will need a new trans if the diff is shot and there is a hole in the case. Even if there wasnt a hole in the case with all that metal floating around in the trans i wouldnt risk using the same trans again.

As far as lsd inserts go there is a 20+ long page about it in this forum.

I still want to see this hole you patched up.

Yeah, usually when there is a hole in your transmission (or any other part of your car), it means something exited with great velocity. Usually parts that leave the transmission in a hurry are ones you want to keep, so by just patching up the hole all you did was fix the case, and not the cause.





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ya but it did drive home that night. I have found a f23/m86 trans. but its about 1000 miles away from me so that means my baby is down for a while. any suggestions on preventing the dreaded wheel hop? Stiffer springs, Control arm bushings, sway bar with bushings, strut tower, struts, trans. mounts?????? I have the rk sport lower motor mount already could that be adding to it since I don't have the upper nor the trans. mounts?????? By the way Thanks for every ones help with this. I don't like buying new trans. every year it is getting old, and expensive.


2003 cavalier 2.2L EcoTec 5 Speed
Intake, Exhaust, Lower motor Mount, Extra Grounds, Tint, Z24 16" Rims, 144.2 DB in the trunk all done!!!!

More to come.....

I have been reading the forums about the diffs. and the inserts and I still don't understand what they are supposed to help with??? when I break traction with the stock diff. it catches posi every time and from what I am understanding the dif. and/or the inserts are supposed to equalize power to both wheels under hard acceleration, so if the stock diff. does that then what is the advantage to the aftermarket??? I am still working on stopping the wheel hop before anything else I am just curious about that as well. thanks


2003 cavalier 2.2L EcoTec 5 Speed
Intake, Exhaust, Lower motor Mount, Extra Grounds, Tint, Z24 16" Rims, 144.2 DB in the trunk all done!!!!

More to come.....

the stock diff is actually an open unit. you're breaking transmissions because you're driving, well, stupid. i've beat on my isuzu quite a bit, still going strong at 108k, if you're on #4 of a "stronger" trans, you need to learn how to drive stick. the insert is made to essentially take the open diff, put tension on the spider gears, and make them less likely to turn at different rates. there are no posi clutches or anything in our trans.



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sounds like someone needs to learn how to drive

only reason I break tranny's is because I use stockers and launch at 5k with a 100 shot on a 347 stroker with 10.25:1 compression




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1997 Sunfire GT

there is no sense in belittling somone for trying to understand the reason why they broke their car. I understand that the trans. broke from the wheel hop and that is all that was needed to say non of the "I am better than you BS" thanks but no thanks A#@Hole


2003 cavalier 2.2L EcoTec 5 Speed
Intake, Exhaust, Lower motor Mount, Extra Grounds, Tint, Z24 16" Rims, 144.2 DB in the trunk all done!!!!

More to come.....

But thanks for all the info from everyone that was descent and provided assistance in the understanding of the problem


2003 cavalier 2.2L EcoTec 5 Speed
Intake, Exhaust, Lower motor Mount, Extra Grounds, Tint, Z24 16" Rims, 144.2 DB in the trunk all done!!!!

More to come.....

wheel hop = bad...

spinning tires without a lsd = bad

even if both tires are spinning they are arguably not going to be spinning at the same speed, thus putting far more stress on the spider gears in your diff than they were designed to take....

you need an lsd, or an insert, or stop beating on your car...

and read your posts, take an outside view, and you might see why everyone got on your case a little bit....



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Michael Siefers wrote:I have been reading the forums about the diffs. and the inserts and I still don't understand what they are supposed to help with??? when I break traction with the stock diff. it catches posi every time and from what I am understanding the dif. and/or the inserts are supposed to equalize power to both wheels under hard acceleration, so if the stock diff. does that then what is the advantage to the aftermarket??? I am still working on stopping the wheel hop before anything else I am just curious about that as well. thanks

I could not post when you made this post, but wanted to respond. First when people (most and myself) say you need to learn to drive. It really is not meant to put you down. I have put close to 200 track passes on a stock diff and stock clutch using drag radials. Never messed up a diff. The getrag diff is pretty good at getting both tires to spin (compared to a isuzu tranny). Still the insert makes a hugh difference. I have a insert and the first time I got on it from first gear I could tell the difference. First time at the track I could as well. It can really help traction it both tires are spinning at the same speed and power.



FU Tuning

So it sounds like I need the insert as well as to get control of the wheelhop then, right??? Do I need the control arm bushings or start with the springs???


2003 cavalier 2.2L EcoTec 5 Speed
Intake, Exhaust, Lower motor Mount, Extra Grounds, Tint, Z24 16" Rims, 144.2 DB in the trunk all done!!!!

More to come.....

the insert doesnt really do anything to help with wheel hop, it just puts more prssure on the spyder gears in order to try to keep them from spinning at different rates.the control arm bushings will help, springs may help (if you get springs, you MUST get shocks and struts.) trans bushings will help, but the biggest thing to help, is to actually learn how to LAUNCH the car without spinning the wheels.

too low of an rpm= wheel hop

to high rpm= wheel spin
(generally speaking of course)



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If you get the upper mount as well it will help greatly reduce the wheel hop even without trans mounts or control arm bushings although those will help even more. The way you launch your car has alot to do with it. If you just pop the clutch you will more than likely get wheel hop. Whehn you launch wait until you feel the car rock back to completly let off the clutch. You will get a smoother spin this way because you have shifted the weight rearward and the entire drivetrain is cocked back instead of rocking back and fourth as the wheels hop.



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Rich Grayo Jr. wrote:the insert doesnt really do anything to help with wheel hop, it just puts more prssure on the spyder gears in order to try to keep them from spinning at different rates.the control arm bushings will help, springs may help (if you get springs, you MUST get shocks and struts.) trans bushings will help, but the biggest thing to help, is to actually learn how to LAUNCH the car without spinning the wheels.

too low of an rpm= wheel hop

to high rpm= wheel spin
(generally speaking of course)

Well I see all kinds of things wrong with what you posted here.
First the insert can help wheel hop. How? Well the insert helps with traction, which will help with wheels hop. Second when I have launched at too low of a RPM my car bogs, not wheel hop. When I launch at too high of a RPM (with no traction) I get wheel hop.



FU Tuning

I can kind of see what Rich Grayo Jr was saying. I got the most wheel hop from yanking my foot off the clutch at about 2500 rpm. It was at the point where it was not quite enought to spin but too much to grip and bog. However I think launching as I described above is the best way to keep whell hop to a minimum.




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FU Tuning

So got the trans changed and here are some pics of the old one.


Showing the pin that goes through the diff. broken and sticking out.


showing were I JBwelded it earlier, hole was pea sized in the cubby with the circle mount tab in it


Over all pic of the inside

I drove this trans. to were I had proper tooling this morning and changed it while it was on jack stands without removing the subframe. The hardest part of the whole thing was finding a 30 mm socket to get the axles out, I guess everyone else had a similar project this weekend. The syncromesh oil is expensive at 6.50 a quart though. no extra bolts and the trans. shifts good and all is well untill I find a complete front end bushing kit. So now on to the suspension forum. I also replaced the ait sensor to so no more check engine light YAY..


2003 cavalier 2.2L EcoTec 5 Speed
Intake, Exhaust, Lower motor Mount, Extra Grounds, Tint, Z24 16" Rims, 144.2 DB in the trunk all done!!!!

More to come.....

why are you using syncromesh in a getrag?



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the f23/m86 getrag trans. came out of a 2000 jbody and the haynes manual for a 2000 jbody says 2qts of sychromesh tans. fluid gm part # 12345349.


2003 cavalier 2.2L EcoTec 5 Speed
Intake, Exhaust, Lower motor Mount, Extra Grounds, Tint, Z24 16" Rims, 144.2 DB in the trunk all done!!!!

More to come.....