im trying to beef up my 99 5-speed tranny for my 2.4 because im going to throw alot more boost at it than i already do so anyone know of a way i can beef up the tranny other than cnc machined spyder gears and where can i get them, i have a spec 3 clutch and polyurethane trannsmission mounts but what else can i do

Team green LSD, and you can get the gears cryotreated (surface hardened) for alittle added strength.


_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**

is that all i can do or are there anyother options

Matt Macomber wrote:is that all i can do or are there anyother options

You can do anything you want to do as long as you have money... how much power will you be putting through the diff? the main reason the spider gears go is from one-wheel burnouts, spinning tires, nailing the go pedal around corners and spinning a tire etc. sounds like you have a pretty wild driving style. (you cant deny it, if you didnt then you wouldnt be breaking diffs as spider gears generally dont go from the amount of hp you put through it.)

Taking the diff to an expert is your best bet, they can build it and beef it up better than 99.9% of the DIY'ers around. Myself i would get the team green LSD, get the spider gears hardened, and then set the diff up on the tight side then use a very good synthetic oil.

If that doesnt suite your needs then you should be looking at a Quaffe diff because even CNC'd spiders wont last you long once you start doing one wheel burnouts.


_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**

i plan on looking at 360whp so if hardening the spyder gears will get me there ill be happy with that, I only drive hard at the track and the car doesn't get autoXed at all so the turning is not an issue. and i dont do burnouts anymore from fear that i shread the spyder gears even though i have never had just one wheel spining

source a diff from a early 90's Isuzu...... SOHC Storm/Impulse........ they have machined spiders in their diff, and are a bit stronger.




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

OR weld it up

Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

You'll kill CNC spiders like a twig if you dont use an LSD and if you use something like a Team Green imo you'll be pushing it at best unless you use street tires (it'll hold up for awhile but its not going to last). If you can afford to build the engine to run that kind of HP i would look into getting a Quaffe especially if you're going to use slicks.


_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**

^Before I'd throw good money to get a Qualfie and put it in a crappy isuzu trans I'd do the getrag swap and get a TG LSD...done!

Joshua Dearman wrote:^Before I'd throw good money to get a Qualfie and put it in a crappy isuzu trans I'd do the getrag swap and get a TG LSD...done!

the getrag is no better than a isuzu. they both have they're up sides and they're down sides and imo both of them need work inorder to be "bulletproof"


_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**

Getrag > Isuzu anyday.......I've driven both...isuzu is crap...you might be able to change gearing but to nothing better than the Getrag comes stock. Bulletproof yes, both need work, but how much work is the question. To make a getrag bulletproof you need to cryo, nitride and get an LSD. To make an isuzu bulletproof you need to do a getrag swap

Their both decent transmissions....... I do prefure the Getrag, it seems to have held up to more abuse then the isuzu's, and they are also easier to tear apart.

The Isuzu has more gear ratio's to choose from, but has a weak diff...... which is not to hard to over come, if you know where to look, or not afraid to spend money.

The Getrag has a bit stronger of a diff, but doesnt have as many options for gears (1 choice for 5th, and 3 choices for FDR)




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

well i dont plan on running slicks , so i think that CNC gears might be the trick and my friend also has a set of stage 3 driveshaft shop axels that i might get from him if i ever get traction i think that these will come in handy\

Joshua Dearman wrote:Getrag > Isuzu anyday.......I've driven both...isuzu is crap...you might be able to change gearing but to nothing better than the Getrag comes stock. Bulletproof yes, both need work, but how much work is the question. To make a getrag bulletproof you need to cryo, nitride and get an LSD. To make an isuzu bulletproof you need to do a getrag swap

well thats a very definitive uneducated awnser. The getrag has just as many downsides as the izuzu. the shift forks are plastic and a 80yr old grandma can bend/break one, the syncro's are less than sufficient (although the shift forks MAY help this problem) there are virtually no gear choices, and the cost of rebuild is very high depending on the parts you need. The izuzu has tons of gear choices, is internally a very solid transmission, has a weak diff but that can be overcome by an lsd or quaffe, rebuild parts are cheap and the transmissions themselves are cheap.
as said, they both have ups and downs so to call one better than the other well isnt really true.

stock for stock on the otherhand, i would say if you can drive the getrag properly and avoid bending/breaking shiftforks its much stronger, but doesnt make it better.


_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**

TwistedMotorsports wrote:The getrag has just as many downsides as the izuzu. the shift forks are plastic and a 80yr old grandma can bend/break one, the syncro's are less than sufficient (although the shift forks MAY help this problem) there are virtually no gear choices, and the cost of rebuild is very high depending on the parts you need. The izuzu has tons of gear choices, is internally a very solid transmission, has a weak diff but that can be overcome by an lsd or quaffe, rebuild parts are cheap and the transmissions themselves are cheap.

actually, its just the TIPS of the shift forks that have a nylon cover over them...... and both transmissions have this. I have only seen the Getrags have problems with these though, but I havnt seen every trans out there that has failed.

Rebuilding both of them cost about the same, and in both cases its just cheaper to source a good used one. The prices on used ones are also about the same, check www.car-part.com.

I favor the Getrag because it shifts smoother and has held up to the abuse I have thrown at it, but the Isuzu has a better 'clutch/pedal feel' to it, and it's shifter seems tighter (exp. with the B&M shifter)........ The Getrag has a higher noise factor, but also uses thinner fluid then the Isuzu, making it easier to shift in cold climates. (noise doesnt bother me, solid motor mounts will give you that)

I've pulled both apart numerous times, and for the most part they are both pretty solid transmissions (with the exception of the Isuzu Diff). The Getrag is easier to work on, the Isuzu is easier to upgrade (gear ratio wise).






SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

TwistedMotorsports wrote:well thats a very definitive uneducated awnser.

I've got 202,000 miles of my Getrag and beating on it regularly.....I'm now on the second and got 135k(35k from a GA-rollover, and 85k from me) on it with zero problems, and still beating on it. I've NEVER seen an isuzu with that kind of miles....crap, rarely you'll see an isuzu with half that....and at that point I'd bet serious money that its got 3rd gear grind going on. The ONLY thing wrong with the first one @ 202k miles was with the nylon tip of the 5th gear fork, and that was only caused because the shifter cables were too tight and held the fork against the surface and prematuely wearing on it.......Perhaps the nylon on the shifter fork isn't an issue with a Isuzu trans because they never last long enough to go through a fork tip....they blow diffs and syncros first(3rd gear grind). I know you have alot more gearing options with the isuzu but by the time you get the "close mission" isuzu you have close gearing to that of the getrag without need to source parts from other trans's and completely tear it down and rebuild it.
Theres something to be said for not having to go through all that.....

It's like saying a Chevy Tahoe is a good replacement for a tank after you replace the motor, body, frame and suspension.......I understand the isuzu is a decent tranny for its purpose...a light weight econo car with lower than 200hp, by the time you bother beefing up the motor why wouldn't you want to start off with a good platform instead of making a clearly bad one(for more power) better. That makes no sence.

I've driven both and owned 2 Isuzu's in good condiction. The Isuzu is crap. Strong besides the dif, but crap. It makes my jeep feel like im flyin through gears, LOL. If you can find a nice one, get a new venture, otherwise get a newer getrag. NVG-T550 will hold the power your talking about and its not a bad swap (easier than the 00+ getrag). If you like driving your car you'll love it with a better trans



Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..

Getrag
1st - 3.58
2nd - 2.02
3rd - 1.35
4th - 0.98
5th - 0.69
FDR - 3.94

2.4 Isuzu
1st 3.73
2nd 2.18
3rd 1.33
4th 0.92
5th 0.74
FDR 3.94

Close Ratio Isuzu
1st 3.73
2nd 2.18
3rd 1.45
4th 1.03
5th 0.74
FDR 3.94 (2.4)

Seems like the stock Isuzu has a more aggressive 1st and 2nd, while the CR Isuzu is more aggressive all the way threw. I've built and driven the CR Isuzu, and the Getrag is no where close. Throw a 4.11:1 FDR in the CR Isuzu and you should have no problem getting a N/A 2.4 into the low 14's w/ sticky tires.

Now, you can get a 3.84:1, 4.17:1, and a 4.41:1 FDR for the Getrag as well..... Step down to the 3.84:1 if you have some sort of boost, step up to the 4.??:1 for N/A or N2O vehicles......





SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

Joshua Dearman wrote:

TwistedMotorsports wrote:well thats a very definitive uneducated awnser.

I've got 202,000 miles of my Getrag and beating on it regularly.....I'm now on the second and got 135k(35k from a GA-rollover, and 85k from me) on it with zero problems, and still beating on it. I've NEVER seen an isuzu with that kind of miles....crap, rarely you'll see an isuzu with half that....and at that point I'd bet serious money that its got 3rd gear grind going on. The ONLY thing wrong with the first one @ 202k miles was with the nylon tip of the 5th gear fork, and that was only caused because the shifter cables were too tight and held the fork against the surface and prematuely wearing on it.......Perhaps the nylon on the shifter fork isn't an issue with a Isuzu trans because they never last long enough to go through a fork tip....they blow diffs and syncros first(3rd gear grind). I know you have alot more gearing options with the isuzu but by the time you get the "close mission" isuzu you have close gearing to that of the getrag without need to source parts from other trans's and completely tear it down and rebuild it.
Theres something to be said for not having to go through all that.....

It's like saying a Chevy Tahoe is a good replacement for a tank after you replace the motor, body, frame and suspension.......I understand the isuzu is a decent tranny for its purpose...a light weight econo car with lower than 200hp, by the time you bother beefing up the motor why wouldn't you want to start off with a good platform instead of making a clearly bad one(for more power) better. That makes no sence.

Actually the getrags are what i've seen the most problems with. point is we can argue all you want, but in reality your comparing things that are about equal right from the get-go. i'm not saying for anyone with a getrag to swap to an isuzu or anyone with an isuzu to swap to a getrag. What do you not get about the only real reason the diffs go is because of one wheel burnouts? do that with a @!#$ getrag long enough and you'll see what happens, i have proof sitting in the shop right now that getrags are not the "lump of gold" that everyone around here seems to make them. i havent said once they are a @!#$ty trans though.. I have personally done a good number of rebuils on both transmissions (stock and performance) and i do know what i'm talking about (i'm in the damn business)

And for a guy thats talking over the internet you sure seem to get heated over a transmission discussion. so go ahead with your uneducated opinions and come back when you have personally torn down, built up, and raced under some pretty serious power with slicks on both the izusu and the getrag.


_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**

TwistedMotorsports wrote: but in reality your comparing things that are about equal right from the get-go.

There not, and thats my point!

TwistedMotorsports wrote: What do you not get about the only real reason the diffs go is because of one wheel burnouts?

When did I every say this didn't cause a failure?

TwistedMotorsports wrote:do that with a @!#$ getrag long enough and you'll see what happens.

Absoutely correct..I never once said getrags can't, didn't, or won't. However 90% of the time my Getrag turns both tires instead of one with the stock diff where the isuzu has a much higher chance of spinning one wheel than the getrag, buts another disscussion on its own.

TwistedMotorsports wrote:
And for a guy thats talking over the internet you sure seem to get heated over a transmission discussion. so go ahead with your uneducated opinions and come back when you have personally torn down, built up, and raced under some pretty serious power with slicks on both the izusu and the getrag.

WOW....I didn't know I was heated, haha. Thanks for letting me know!
See, I dont need to work on an Isuzu to know there crap...I believe that statistics speak much louder than any personal exsperience, Isuzu makes a poor tranny for any J-body power adders. Thats the statistics speaking there, not me and my "opinions"

I've driven Isuzu(with and without 3rd grind)...don't like it compared to a getrag, I own a Getrag, I've been inside a getrag....nuff said.
I could take you advise and go furvently tear into both trannys but it would not do a bit of good becasue when I'm done the statistics will still say the Isuzus suck whether I think its better or not.......opinions are only opinions if they have no factual basis, the facts say getrag>isuzu...the end.

Edit:: my second tranny is 135k (50k GA-rollover + 85k from me) NOT 135k (35k GA-rollove + 85k from me) - haha I dont know where I got that math from!

Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, December 06, 2006 8:28 PM

i have a quafe lsd im looking to get rid of. rated to 750 hp.
also have a diff with geo spiders and a brand new pg insert in it for sale.



Don't steal, the government doesn't like competition

if I only had the money.......






SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

I would do the tranny swap, I have munched 6 Isuzu trannys(including the 1 Storm/Impluse diff and 1Close Ratio Isuzu). Swaped to the Getrag and have yet to have a problem. But thats just my stand on it.










Dugan
'98 Z24 15.0 1/4 all motor
Team GREEN
Member of <a href="http://www.wisconsin-js.com"> Wisc_Jbodies</a>

I think I bent a shift fork in my getrag.. shifting from 1st to 2nd during a burnout at the track and missing the gear is never a good idea... especially when your revlimiter is 7700rpm

other than that, the trans is awesome.. the only reason its broke is because i messed up big time. 1st and 2nd are ok normal driving, but if I try to hot-shift from first to second over 6500rpm (I usually shift at 7500) the gear refuses to engage.

time for another F23 M86 with a quaiffe lsd installed

I've got an F23 you can use for parts...
very low miles!


Desert Tuners

“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”