I'm trying to find out what these gm 310cc injectors are good up to about hp wise. I'm thinking I need bigger now with the smaller pulley.
I have my cartech fmu maxed out on the boost screw and I have that feeling like I'm maxing out the injectors cause my a/f's are STILL not where they need to be.......start out at 11.9 and go to about 12.5.....
Anybody have any idea on the 310's??????
I was thinking of upgrading to the RC 370s or 440s but I was wondering if these injectors are made to fit certain cars or if they just come in low and high imp. ? Because I can't seem to find any 370s for our cars but I saw the 440's on carcustoms.net.
Thanks everyone for the help!
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im pretty sure the GM 320 can handle more than 200-215, stock they are supposed to handle 190HP, im pretty sure they can handle around 230 HP
2006 Black Cobalt SS Supercharged G85
13.91@102.77
320's can handle up to 300hp @ the crank, I have proof.
- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.
Hmm this is interesting thanks guys.................but I thought the s/c injectors wer 310?
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310cc injectors on a 4-cylinder car shouldn't be pushed for more than 220 hp.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
Skilz10179 wrote:320's can handle up to 300hp @ the crank, I have proof.
speed racer z did the same thing with ford red tops. Im going to be going turbo so thats what injectors im going with for my application
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/827643
boost will be soon for me....
Skilz10179 wrote:320's can handle up to 300hp @ the crank, I have proof.
a 310/320cc injector (30lb) should never exceed 200bhp. At that point, your running it too close to it 100% duty cycle.
This is why engines explode... people
THINKING they know what they're talking about.
You should always size your injectors based on 75%-85% of the maximum duty cycle. A 30lb injector can run about 220bhp.... 85% or 220 is 187bhp... so even pushing it to 200bhp is a bit risky... being as its 91% of the injectors maximum duty cycle.
I personaly, prepare for the worst. I have 550cc/52lb injectors in my Volvo, but it only makes ~202bhp/~265lb-ft. So even though the injector is capable of handeling 380bhp, it hardly has to work to fuel the engine to what ever ration i wish.
Be smart about your fuel system... otherwise you'll end up with a engine bay full of broken parts.
-Schall
mine ran low 13's under full boost , with the gm reflash
i even turned the pressure up and it still was in the low 13's
now im running 36lb , and its usually in the high 11's sometimes low 12's
with the 5-7 average boost im seeing i think the 36lb are slightly to big , but better to big than to small
MRMEANR Racing wrote:Skilz10179 wrote:320's can handle up to 300hp @ the crank, I have proof.
a 310/320cc injector (30lb) should never exceed 200bhp. At that point, your running it too close to it 100% duty cycle.
This is why engines explode... people THINKING they know what they're talking about.
You should always size your injectors based on 75%-85% of the maximum duty cycle. A 30lb injector can run about 220bhp.... 85% or 220 is 187bhp... so even pushing it to 200bhp is a bit risky... being as its 91% of the injectors maximum duty cycle.
I personaly, prepare for the worst. I have 550cc/52lb injectors in my Volvo, but it only makes ~202bhp/~265lb-ft. So even though the injector is capable of handeling 380bhp, it hardly has to work to fuel the engine to what ever ration i wish.
Be smart about your fuel system... otherwise you'll end up with a engine bay full of broken parts.
-Schall
My motor dynoed 255.7whp with 320cc injectors which is a hair over 300bhp. Most of the pull was mid 12:1 a/f and got up to 13:1 right at redline. But according to you thats not possible.......
I'm not saying they were not maxed out or they were the correct injector for the power i was making, i was just answering the question.
- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.
Skilz10179 wrote:
My motor dynoed 255.7whp with 320cc injectors which is a hair over 300bhp. Most of the pull was mid 12:1 a/f and got up to 13:1 right at redline. But according to you thats not possible.......
I'm not saying they were not maxed out or they were the correct injector for the power i was making, i was just answering the question.
what was your injector duty cycle at that point?
Skilz10179 wrote:MRMEANR Racing wrote:Skilz10179 wrote:320's can handle up to 300hp @ the crank, I have proof.
a 310/320cc injector (30lb) should never exceed 200bhp. At that point, your running it too close to it 100% duty cycle.
This is why engines explode... people THINKING they know what they're talking about.
You should always size your injectors based on 75%-85% of the maximum duty cycle. A 30lb injector can run about 220bhp.... 85% or 220 is 187bhp... so even pushing it to 200bhp is a bit risky... being as its 91% of the injectors maximum duty cycle.
I personaly, prepare for the worst. I have 550cc/52lb injectors in my Volvo, but it only makes ~202bhp/~265lb-ft. So even though the injector is capable of handeling 380bhp, it hardly has to work to fuel the engine to what ever ration i wish.
Be smart about your fuel system... otherwise you'll end up with a engine bay full of broken parts.
-Schall
My motor dynoed 255.7whp with 320cc injectors which is a hair over 300bhp. Most of the pull was mid 12:1 a/f and got up to 13:1 right at redline. But according to you thats not possible.......
I'm not saying they were not maxed out or they were the correct injector for the power i was making, i was just answering the question.
Alright guys, lets run the math on this, because Mr. Meaner, I think you don't know what you're talking about there...
IFR = (BHP * BSFC) / (# Of Injectors * Duty Cycle)
Now, Mr. Meanr, lets use your numbers first...
32 = (x * .65) / (4 / 1.0) for 100% duty cycle, 32lb/hr injectors, and .65 BSFC
Well that comes out to x = 196.92hp that the 320's can support AT 45 PSI.
Well who runs at 45 PSI?
Lets see what pressure it would take for Skilz to get his numbers...
IFR = (300 * .65) / (4 * .8)
IFR = 60.9lbs/hr
Plugging that into this formula:
F2 = (P2 * F1) / P1
60.9 = (x * 32) / 45
x = 85.7 PSI
So Skilz would need to run his injectors at 86ish PSI to get the right amount of fuel to support 300bhp. This is NOT UNREASONABLE.
320's will support quite a bit more then 200bhp, I'm not saying anybody should run them to thier limits, but saying 200 without any resonable background is just wrong.
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Buy stuff from CarCustoms Ebay! Won't be disappointed!
MRMEANR Racing wrote:Skilz10179 wrote:320's can handle up to 300hp @ the crank, I have proof.
a 310/320cc injector (30lb) should never exceed 200bhp. At that point, your running it too close to it 100% duty cycle.
This is why engines explode... people THINKING they know what they're talking about.
You should always size your injectors based on 75%-85% of the maximum duty cycle. A 30lb injector can run about 220bhp.... 85% or 220 is 187bhp... so even pushing it to 200bhp is a bit risky... being as its 91% of the injectors maximum duty cycle.
I personaly, prepare for the worst. I have 550cc/52lb injectors in my Volvo, but it only makes ~202bhp/~265lb-ft. So even though the injector is capable of handeling 380bhp, it hardly has to work to fuel the engine to what ever ration i wish.
Be smart about your fuel system... otherwise you'll end up with a engine bay full of broken parts.
-Schall
What chart or formula did you use for your math? The one off RC Eng website?
Shifted wrote:Skilz10179 wrote:MRMEANR Racing wrote:Skilz10179 wrote:320's can handle up to 300hp @ the crank, I have proof.
a 310/320cc injector (30lb) should never exceed 200bhp. At that point, your running it too close to it 100% duty cycle.
This is why engines explode... people THINKING they know what they're talking about.
You should always size your injectors based on 75%-85% of the maximum duty cycle. A 30lb injector can run about 220bhp.... 85% or 220 is 187bhp... so even pushing it to 200bhp is a bit risky... being as its 91% of the injectors maximum duty cycle.
I personaly, prepare for the worst. I have 550cc/52lb injectors in my Volvo, but it only makes ~202bhp/~265lb-ft. So even though the injector is capable of handeling 380bhp, it hardly has to work to fuel the engine to what ever ration i wish.
Be smart about your fuel system... otherwise you'll end up with a engine bay full of broken parts.
-Schall
My motor dynoed 255.7whp with 320cc injectors which is a hair over 300bhp. Most of the pull was mid 12:1 a/f and got up to 13:1 right at redline. But according to you thats not possible.......
I'm not saying they were not maxed out or they were the correct injector for the power i was making, i was just answering the question.
Alright guys, lets run the math on this, because Mr. Meaner, I think you don't know what you're talking about there...
IFR = (BHP * BSFC) / (# Of Injectors * Duty Cycle)
Now, Mr. Meanr, lets use your numbers first...
32 = (x * .65) / (4 / 1.0) for 100% duty cycle, 32lb/hr injectors, and .65 BSFC
Well that comes out to x = 196.92hp that the 320's can support AT 45 PSI.
Well who runs at 45 PSI?
Lets see what pressure it would take for Skilz to get his numbers...
IFR = (300 * .65) / (4 * .8)
IFR = 60.9lbs/hr
Plugging that into this formula:
F2 = (P2 * F1) / P1
60.9 = (x * 32) / 45
x = 85.7 PSI
So Skilz would need to run his injectors at 86ish PSI to get the right amount of fuel to support 300bhp. This is NOT UNREASONABLE.
320's will support quite a bit more then 200bhp, I'm not saying anybody should run them to thier limits, but saying 200 without any resonable background is just wrong.
Ya, the idea is to run low pressure, HIGH VOLUME. I regularly run around 40psi of fuel pressure on my S40, and under wide open throttle on 17psi, i might hit 65psi... MIGHT.
Now, i size my injectors based on the factory pressure testing, usually 3 bar/ 45psi. So in the eyes of the manufacturer, 200bhp
IS almost to its limits of
SAFE use. If you have to run DOUBLE the test rated pressure to flow the fuel you need... something is very very wrong with your setup.
Again, this is why engines explode. People
THINKING they know what thier doing.
DO you also realize that running such high pressure can easily cause a fire? You could spring a leak ANYWHERE, and now you have fuel spraying all over the place.
So rather than running a 255lph pump at an ungodly amount of pressure, spend an extra 30 bucks, and buy a 600lb/hr pump that can flow that extra fuel w/o jacking the pressure way up. Then get PROPERLY sized injectors, and tune your fuel system to suit them. Be it by ECM, or by AFPR.. just do things right.
BTW - If you want to think i dont know what im talking about... thats cool. Everyone is alocated to thier own opinions, but i HAVE been doing this since your 12th birthday, and have yet to see an engine ive built blow up... to a lot of people... thats saying something
Karo - i use this one.... its a bit on the rich side, but has worked great for me over the last few years.
http://www.sdsefi.com/techffhp.htm
as i said before , better to be a tad rich
then to be a tad lean
[quote=97cavie24ls(JDM&00s/c sedans™)]as i said before , better to be a tad rich
then to be a tad lean
Oh absolutly. With tuning you can fix the issue, but always better to be rich than lean.
MRMEANR Racing wrote:I personaly, prepare for the worst. I have 550cc/52lb injectors in my Volvo, but it only makes ~202bhp/~265lb-ft. So even though the injector is capable of handeling 380bhp, it hardly has to work to fuel the engine to what ever ration i wish.
I'm a retard when it comes to fuel, so this raises a question that's been floating around in my mind for a while now:
My Z24 has a lot of basic bolt-ons, no major work, and definitely no forced induction. My profile lists EXACLTY what I have done, for reference. So I'm lucky if I'm putting 180BHP to the crank. Probably not even that. So I'm definitely not due for fuel mods quite yet. Maybe after porting the head and some cams I'll look into it some more. Keep in mind Boost is in my future though. Point is that theoretically, based on what you've done to your Volvo, I could do the same to my Z. Hopefully I'm thinking about this correctly, but I COULD swap in some 550cc injectors, and use some other kind of controlling device(s) to lower it way down to meet my ~180HP needs and not run too rich. This seems like it would be a great way to keep all my fuel needs in check no matter what horsepower I'm at.
Think that would work? What kind of devices would I need in addition to the injectors toi get the fuel down to the appropriate amount and be able to monitor it?
ok. i'm think i get it (im lost). So for my 01 z24 with s/c and reflash, i'm running 5-7psi with 2.7" pulley. If i stick on the 2.6 pulley (close to 10psi and will have water injection shortly) what size injectors should i use to keep the duty cycle down? Also, what other injectors (ie the ford ones...from which car?) would match.
Thanks!
Nate
Evolution of Cavyboy-->C22t--> C24na--->c24s/c
1995 Cavalier W/2k1 Engine
GM S/C 13.940@99.78pmh w/2.068 60ft
I wouldn't think anyone would need anything over 440cc with the GM charger. There is probably a few exceptions for those who run nitrous as well...don't quote me on that. But 440cc is what I plan on running after I get the h20/alky injection.
Sorry if its been said... i didnt read all the posts since im off to bed.... but the 310cc's will max out at around 215-220whp.... and thats i think pretty damn close to 100% duty which is not the best to be doing..
The First Twin Charged jbody
blue car (R.I.P) - 240whp @7psi..
silver car - 305whp 315lbs.tq @15psi (91 Octane) or 420whp & 425lbs.TQ @20psi (94 octane+Alcohol Injection)
All dynos run on a Mustang dyno
LD9 Fury! wrote:MRMEANR Racing wrote:I personaly, prepare for the worst. I have 550cc/52lb injectors in my Volvo, but it only makes ~202bhp/~265lb-ft. So even though the injector is capable of handeling 380bhp, it hardly has to work to fuel the engine to what ever ration i wish.
I'm a retard when it comes to fuel, so this raises a question that's been floating around in my mind for a while now:
My Z24 has a lot of basic bolt-ons, no major work, and definitely no forced induction. My profile lists EXACLTY what I have done, for reference. So I'm lucky if I'm putting 180BHP to the crank. Probably not even that. So I'm definitely not due for fuel mods quite yet. Maybe after porting the head and some cams I'll look into it some more. Keep in mind Boost is in my future though. Point is that theoretically, based on what you've done to your Volvo, I could do the same to my Z. Hopefully I'm thinking about this correctly, but I COULD swap in some 550cc injectors, and use some other kind of controlling device(s) to lower it way down to meet my ~180HP needs and not run too rich. This seems like it would be a great way to keep all my fuel needs in check no matter what horsepower I'm at.
Think that would work? What kind of devices would I need in addition to the injectors toi get the fuel down to the appropriate amount and be able to monitor it?
Yes you could do the same. Because the Volvo is a Seimens 2000 ECU, it wasnt too hard to find a shop that could tune it for me. Being that the GM ECU's are needing a flash, your probably going to want to go with a AEM EMS or a Megasquirt, or even a Haltec system to control your fuel. If you dont have the cash, you can always try tuning by means of a AFPR, but thats a lot of trial and error.
Either way, its good to prepare your fuel system for worst case scenario, as long as you have the means to tune it for best case
MRMEANR Racing wrote:Yes you could do the same. Because the Volvo is a Seimens 2000 ECU, it wasnt too hard to find a shop that could tune it for me. Being that the GM ECU's are needing a flash, your probably going to want to go with a AEM EMS or a Megasquirt, or even a Haltec system to control your fuel. If you dont have the cash, you can always try tuning by means of a AFPR, but thats a lot of trial and error.
Either way, its good to prepare your fuel system for worst case scenario, as long as you have the means to tune it for best case
This is good news. Between the AEM, Megasquirt, and Haltec systems, which one would be better to accomodate N/A?
Shifted wrote:
So Skilz would need to run his injectors at 86ish PSI to get the right amount of fuel to support 300bhp. This is NOT UNREASONABLE.
320's will support quite a bit more then 200bhp, I'm not saying anybody should run them to thier limits, but saying 200 without any resonable background is just wrong.
But the thing is i am not raising my fuel pressure at all, other than the 1:1 stock FPR, stock pressure (42psi?) plus 6psi from the FPR on 6 psi of boost would only equal 48psi fuel pressure.
- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.
Skilz10179 wrote:Shifted wrote:
So Skilz would need to run his injectors at 86ish PSI to get the right amount of fuel to support 300bhp. This is NOT UNREASONABLE.
320's will support quite a bit more then 200bhp, I'm not saying anybody should run them to thier limits, but saying 200 without any resonable background is just wrong.
But the thing is i am not raising my fuel pressure at all, other than the 1:1 stock FPR, stock pressure (42psi?) plus 6psi from the FPR on 6 psi of boost would only equal 48psi fuel pressure.
So really you dont have any idea as to what your fuel pressure was under 6psi at WOT..... do you know what your A/F ration was???
