Well, I'm having a new Turbo Manifold being made and I have the option of getting it coated. Now, I wanted to have it coated because I thought it would help as far as under the hood temps and I thought it helped as far as keeping it from cracking. Am I correct about these assumptions?
Besides these, are there any advantages? What you guys think...should I do it?
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I think you should do it.
I dont think it will prevent it from cracking, however, I do believe it helps in heat dissipation(sp?)
You would probably benefit from it, and it gives it a nice look as well.
1. Cermaic coating will keep the heat inside the manifold.
-This will help the turbo spool faster since more heat reaches the turbine wheel faster to spin it. Exhasut velocity will be higher in a coated manifold since the hotter gas is, velocity is larger. This is the main performance benefit and it is def. worth it.
2. It will help the material your manifold is made of live longer since it will not see as much heat compared to the uncoated manifold.
-Less heat put into the manifold, the bolts, surrounding components, the longer lives they will have. Plus, since your underhood temps will drop, you won't have as much intake manifold heating, which is bad when it comes to a turbo.
Do it. Make sure that both the inside and outside of the manifold is coated.
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2004 ECOtec, built and boosted
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Do it. Make sure that both the inside and outside of the manifold is coated.
Interesting you say that...
A bit later on, I want to port match my turbo manifold and my intake manifold (i'll be buying a saab 2.0 eco turbo manifold) to my head (I have the Patriot Stage 2 Head)...with the manifold inside being coated, would porting it mess it up real bad?
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NJHK (That Black Guy) wrote:Quote:
Do it. Make sure that both the inside and outside of the manifold is coated.
Interesting you say that...
A bit later on, I want to port match my turbo manifold and my intake manifold (i'll be buying a saab 2.0 eco turbo manifold) to my head (I have the Patriot Stage 2 Head)...with the manifold inside being coated, would porting it mess it up real bad?
If the manifold is coated inside before porting, yes it will mess it up. Port it 1st then get it coated.
I'm going to be honest..... just port match it now and then have it coated. When you port match the exhaust manifold you are usually just grinding away at some of the flange. Do it with a dremel.....
Just stick some fine-woven cotton cloth into the exhaust ports to prevent aluminum chips and lint from getting int the cylinders. Put a gasket onto the head and bolt it down, then dremel away untilyou have the head and gasket even everwhere. Swap the gasket onto the turbo manifold and do the same think. Make sure you put a polishing attachement on both.
Get it ceramic coated after that.
If you do it with an outside source like that instead of the place that is making the manifold, you can have your turbine housing ceramic coated at the same time.
Now ceramic coating is like a perminent heat wrap that doesn't trap in moister and therefore also keeps things from rusting. You can do it in lots of colors, it has an increadible tollerance to heat and wear and is also extremely light.. hence the reason it is so comonly used in turbo applications (cermic ball bearings, turbine shafts, coatings, ect...)
Yah expensive crap though.... you don't want to have to do it twice.
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See the problem with me port matching it before it's coated is that it's being made right now and I have to tell the guy yes or no to have it coated.
So do you think I should say screw it and have it done later and things be alright or just coat it now? I'm really not sure what do...
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adam, if he has a flange, shouldn't he have an exhaust gasket too? have him match it before he sends it to be coated. Most times the header should have big enough ports where it doesn't need to be matched anyway.
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'Nuff said
If you do ceramic, try to get it in black. I was told by my powder coater/ceramic coater that the black will hold up better than the silver. Black is better
Here are a few pics of piping that I had ceramic coated & powder coated for a local Ecotec.
275hp & 306tq - 1999 2.2 ohv
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-1996 2.4 liter + Turbo + Built motor + Torco + More boost = Lots o' Power
-2000 Mustang GT + 2004 Cobra motor, Whipple 2.3 supercharger,
built rear-end,Dodge Viper spec T56 6 speed, bolt-ons = wheelies at the track!!!!!
If the outside of the manifold is coated but the inside is not, the manifold's life may be shortened. I've seen headers which have rotted from the inside out due to the metal heating excessively. The problem seems to be worse if you're applying a ceramic thermal barrier coating rather than a cosmetic coating. This also happens with fiberglass header wrap.
I apply my own coatings. The thermal barrier coating which will be used on the inside of the manifold can be re-touched. I know some of the shops say "no way" and I have to believe it's because of the time required for prep and application. I was told by the coating manufacturer (Techline Coatings) that re-coating poses no problems and I have since done so to cylinder heads and piston tops without a problem.
hth
-->Slow
a stainless mani does not need to be coated. nice ssautochrome turbo, btw.
thats the piece that will shorten the life expectancy of that setup.
ccfab wrote:a stainless mani does not need to be coated. nice ssautochrome turbo, btw.
thats the piece that will shorten the life expectancy of that setup.
Oh please...SSAutochrome my ass
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Thank you very much Bill Hahn...
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We do not recommend coating the inside, as we have seen the coatings break free and end up further downstream, usually deposited on the turbine wheel where they cool.
Interesting. I'd suspect this is most likely an issue with improper preparation and / or application. The same coatings are applied to engine internals where they are also subjected to highly abusive conditions. If these pieces come loose inside an engine will they leave very telltale clues like cylinder, ring, and piston wear, valve and guide wear, or pieces embedded in the bearings and left in the bottom of the oil pan. Properly applied coatings do not break off.
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the hole in the eclipse header you could poke at it and the metal moved like it was rubber , LOL
That's what I'm talking about. I've seen this on stock car headers with externally applied thermal barrier coatings (not cosmetic coatings).
Ceramic coatings: Still as controversial as ever.
-->Slow
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I hear ya on the application methods. I've often wondered if one should even attempt to coat the ID of a manifold or header that's been previously run...impregnation of combustion deposits / acids / etc into the material will really affect adhesion, regardless of preparation method.
I agree. I don't try to coat the inside of used manifolds. I also haven't found a method which I feel produces consistently satisfactory results on the inside of the manifold.
Thermal barrier coatings applied to piston crowns, combustion chambers and valves are not the same as dry film lubricant coatings. They are the same as or similar to exhaust coatings. True that normal engines don't see anywhere near enough heat to damage pistons or exhaust ports. They'd be awfully hard to keep running if it weren't true.
TBC can save the piston and valve from excess cases... detonation and lean operation when combustion temps can rise high enough to burn aluminum and steel both.
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When we did see seperation of the coatings on internal manifold surfaces, it was on very abusive applications, so there was indeed a much more aggressive set of conditions than the average Joe. But it soured us on the concept, and as coating just the OD achieves our desired effect of heat protection and good looks, we've made that our default. Costs less too!
This is where it all rests at the end of the day. Better to have a quality job which you and your customer can count on than to take chances. I only mentioned deterioration because the quality of exhaust manifolds available today ranges from good to downright junk.
-->Slow
I personally agree with some of the above......it greatly depends what you make the headers out of as well.... If they are carbon, or lesser grade stainless, they will do that even if not wrapped or coated.
I have had very good luck with a 321 stainless header and a 304 stainless down pipe being wrapped.for about 4 years now. With that said, I did have a small crack develop on a waste gate tube this summer, that need to be replaced (the dump tube only) because of an alignment issue with gate. But the primaries were beautiful.
Gave it a shot of paint....wrapped it and back in.
It is not a daily driver, which is also a very big deal too
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NJHK,
Get the Jet Hot 2000 black, but your Patriot Head?.............
Make sure to get it flow bench at a professional shop, All the LS1 guys know these heads are pretty much poor quality like for example
The heads do not flow what they are suppose to, the valve guide clearances are so loose that it sucks oil in the chambers between shifts, the LS1 pushrod guides are offsentered, some of the threads are chewed up at the top, etc,etc.
I'm not saying your going to have the same fate with your head but I would have it checked out on a Superflow 600 or 1020 bench.
gmfreak wrote:NJHK,
Get the Jet Hot 2000 black, but your Patriot Head?.............
Make sure to get it flow bench at a professional shop, All the LS1 guys know these heads are pretty much poor quality like for example
The heads do not flow what they are suppose to, the valve guide clearances are so loose that it sucks oil in the chambers between shifts, the LS1 pushrod guides are offsentered, some of the threads are chewed up at the top, etc,etc.
I'm not saying your going to have the same fate with your head but I would have it checked out on a Superflow 600 or 1020 bench.
From my understanding they are Flow bench tested already by Patriot. I have yet to experience any problems with the head.
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Hey John,
what the hell does your Cav run in the quarter, just asking because I just read your parts list.
They claim this but they do not individually test all of them I think but I know of a well repected LS1 dealer that was Patriots largest at one point but completely dropped them because they were not meeting the advertised flow ratings. This company that dropped them flow benched every one of there orders and even complained to Patriot but it didn't stop, so they dropped them.
If you don't believe me, call Patriot and asked to speak to Terry, and after they tell you that he doesn't work there anymore ask them why. He was a pretty cool and straight up guy.
