SO i know I have been whoring it up a bit lately but Money has been on stedy flow so that means more turbo parts which means more problems which means more headaches for shifted.
so anyway. I have come to the point to buy My safc 2 But Im having problem pushing the buy button. now for a quick over view I ve got my turbo set to 10 lbs and its not coming down, dont ask. Ive got 42 lbs green tops in the works and those are fine it s the fine tuneer thats killing me. I have an fmu set to 12:1. now I know that its to much yad yada yada kill your self. Im probably going to down it. to 6:1 but this is where its getting squirrly I planed on picking up the safc but everytime people talk about it people give it a negitave read. now everyone who has bought it has said nothing but good things about it soooo Im mixed.
the arguments are that you can tune the fuel curve useing the injectors at a given rpm. people say the problem is that fuel needs can change with diffent psi. well my thought is that altough this is true. I doubt that it would change enoguh for the SAFC to become inafective.
I ve got the cahnvce to buy one for 220 shiped untill sat when he gives it to someone elese. and as I rgith this I am pretty sure I am just gonna go with it.
I just wanted some opoins on what you guys thought about tuning the eco.
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Kick azz is my boost hero!!! 
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oh and Ive got a plx m250 so I know where I stand when the pedal drops.
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Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
I think the safc would be great for idling bigger injectors, etc. but as you said it is not boost referenced so it cannot supply more fuel when the boost is on (no more then when you set it per RPM)
If you want to run a huge set of injectors, the safc would probably be your best bet to help you run the engine on everything else but boost.
HUH? I cant use as a guess and check by getting on the car and then mointoring my AF then adjusting via SAFC
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Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
boost vs rpm will change with throttle position, so it will be different depending on how you're driving at the time, and the SAFC has no way to adapt. Just trust us and leave the SAFC alone. I think the people who have it say they like it because they'd be ashamed to say they wasted their money
For 10 psi you could probably just run an EIC, or megasquirt. I'd say e-manage, but there seems to be so many mixed reviews in that neck of the woods...
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
I'd say go full standalone
but I might be biased
OH @!#$ IT FINE. (im crying right now) I could of sworn I had this figued out.
heres the problem the only EIC I would let my car touch is the HAHN and that damn thing is to @!#$ expenisve. does any one eles produce a kit. and does any one have the install instructions for the megasquirt. I have found that it helps me some up If I can do this or not.
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Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
you'd be really surprised how many people on this forum will write things about a product all along having no clue that its not even working correctly.... even more surprised by how many people turbo their cars without knowing anything about tuning or anything else, they just crank up the boost and go... You've got to be especially careful with the eco, since there are those that run fmu's alone and claim that everything works fine, but then there are people like Rich (exterminator) and Matt (Rodimus Prime) that have both seen the ECU pull injector pulsewidth at high RPM's to achieve that magic 14.7:1 a/f ratio, even running high fuel pressures and big injectors. I hear that Hypsy had the same problem, but since his solution involves the 3 letters that shalt not be spoken on this forum, i won't even go there. Hell, Rich's ECU adapted out 440cc injectors, we couldn't get it to hold a consistent a/f with the stock ecu and the adj fpr/fmu/440 setup, nor with the 440's and Emanage.... Which, by the way, those of you with eco's and your Emanage wired EXACTLY as it says on NYJbodies, i know for a FACT that you have a problem and may not even know it... But anyway, Rich is now on Megasquirt and everythings happy as a clam.... IMO until HPTuners software comes out, there's really no proper fueling strategy for an eco besides a standalone fuel controller of some sort and bigger injectors. Some people say they're setups run fine on the simpler fpr/fmu/injector setup, but other cars are far from it.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
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standalone fuel controller of some sort and bigger injectors
Thats exactly what the megasquirt is.
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and does any one have the install instructions for the megasquirt.
You couldn't have done much research on it.
megasquirt.info
msefi.com
Now I am deffintly going for the HP tunerz as soon as it goes. but I am not so siked about the HP tuners I would have to a have heart to heart with someone that has it to give me the what for. I have been teaching My self the tubo way for a while now and have yet to step foot near any standalone reading.
SO this leads me into my next question I understand that an EIC in its own right IS a band aid but After takeing a good look at it, it seems like a good Idea heres why
1. It does not interfear or interface with any if the oem hard ware. it does its own thing with a few signals from the car and vwala.
2. Price. I have yet to find a reasonable kit out there (mind you I have been looking for a whole hour) but they seem to be incredibly cheap espicaly if you build your own.
3. They are pressure sensetive this is the reason I wont be buying an SAFC
4. they are proven they have been used by numerous people and seem to work fine.
Now I am not looking for an argument from any one I know that they have there problems IE fuel puddeling and parts faiulre. but I am looking for a band aid that will let me run my car efinctly until the HP tuners comes out an I can have 2 bar.
So does anyone know of a decent kit out there that has some decent backing(id rather not by Cletiuses super duper EIC ) but still an amazing price
Oh feel free to comment on my choices thats why I am here.
Thank you
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Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
one more thing I have not yet ruled out MS but I am just so tured off by the complexity. I went to there webstie and attempted to find a kit and was flooded with boards harness and sensors. I am so lost I dont know where to begin. however I was reading your other reply and if what you say is tru (and it better be after the lecture I got about posting when I wasnt 100% sure) about hooking up is as hard as an SAFC. then mabye it wont be so bad. It might be easir If I new what I was looking at. is there like a base kit you can buy hook up and run. and what kind of install am I looking at
Please dont disrgard The EIC I need info on that as well.
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Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
also (and I know this sounds stupid but its late)
If I buy this I can open it up hook it up with a sodering Irion and a laptop and run it.
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Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
The megasquirt wiring doesn't look too bad (it's the assembly I'm fearing
). No you can't just hook it up and go, you have to pull VE and fuel tables out of your butt, not to mention start-up sequences and crap just to get it running, BUT in the end you have full control over your fuel, and the factory ECU has no more say in it, and it would be worth it.
I didn't realize the eco ecu felt so strongly about the 14.7:1 ratio, so maybe an EIC wouldn't be the greatest idea...you would need to take all control over fuel from your ecu (read: "you must buy a megasquirt or other standalone or your factory settings will screw you over time and time again")
Oh, yeah, a DIYautotune kit would be the best idea (rather than piecing everything together on your own). However, seeing as we can't take advantage of the new ignition capabilities of the MSII unit, save some money and just get a v3.0 unit (or even v2.2 would suffice if you don't plan on screwing up your wiring).
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
you can get assembled megasquirt kits online for like $50 more.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
what you show is an assembled kit, so you should need to do anything except build the harness that goes to the sensors and injectors. The only thing is that I've use Megasquirt and Spark, i'm not sure what, if any differences there are with Megasquirt II. Rich did most of the base tuning on his car to get it to run, I only did the "copilot-style" fine tuning while driving, but essentially, once you get a base map built that the car will run on (check the numerous MS forums for how to do this), with MSnS, all you have to do is start recording a log, and drive the car slowly around the block (on the base tune it will be running pretty ragged). After a few minutes of driving, pull over and stop recording. The MSnS software will now extrapolate the data from the log and show you what blocks in the map need to be changed to achieve your desired A/F. All you have to do is click to apply the recommended changes and the software will modify the map for you. MUCH better than driving around trying to watch the tach, boost gauge, and wideband all at once to see where to make changes.
My experience with the Megasquirt stuff, although enough for me to be very impressed, is still pretty limited. But hit up the Megasquirt forums and talk to the people selling the units and they will be able to point you in the direction you need to go.
Also, the EIC is a perfectly fine idea too, but remember that with this there's a decent amount of fabrication because the extra injectors need to go somewhere, either tapped into the manifold itself, or mounted before the TB (probably not ideal). Megasquirt is only wiring really, as long as you buy a unit thats already assembled. So unless you have a good ida of how to mount those injectors I'd go MS. But do your research first, there aren't a lot of people on here running it, and some of those that do aren't on here much... I know Mr Pute is experimenting with it now after having given up on Emanage, not sure how far he's gotten (he was also trying to use the Spark side of things, my experience is limited to the fuel controller aspect only). When Rich started on his turbo project, he didn't know anything about tuning whatsoever, but he spent hours reading forum posts and learning what was needed and since he's now running mid 13's and trapping 105mph on 9 psi, he obviously has enough knowledge to be effective.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
The mega squirt is sounding more and more like the way to go. I do however have a few more Q's for you since you seem to understand the MS a bit.
it looks like I have a new forum to visit but I have a few questions since I have your atteintion. now I want to stay away from spark for now I just want a god forskaen tune.
can you please explain a little more about the MSNS what does it stand for (for further searchs) does this still require the base maps to run and is a feature of V 2
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Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
Firstly, as I've always claimed, if you can solder and follow basic instructions, you can assemble AND install a megasquirt. It takes a lot of time, yes, but then so does ANY fuel injection computer or related hardware. This is not someone thats going to change. No matter what fuel solution you get, even if its the easiest to install, it will not be any simpler to understand or troubleshoot. This is the nature of electronics (and therefore fuel injection) in general.
Megasquirt requires you to enter your engine information (displacement, # of injectors, # of cylinders, etc). Please check out the tuning guide as it is a good source of information about what stuff you'll have to do to get the car running. You will have questions after reading it, but at least you'll know what questions to ask. Good advice would be to spend a few days just reading the website and the various guides and take notes about stuff you're not sure of and ask questions either here at at the forums.
Megasquirt n spark extra code (MSnS) (which Im running) adds funcitonality on top of the basic megaquirt code that ships with your order(you have to flash the new code, dont worry its very easy). It adds lots of cool features, some of which require hardware changes to your MS, and some which require NO hardware changes. You can use the code without the hardware changes and take advantage of the newer features that don't require the chages if you want (im doing this). Check it out
HERE.
Any further questions, just ask.
yeah ia am almost ceratinly going with MS unless HP gets there act together withn in a week or to.
I am alreday spening a bit of time on the MS fourms (and I see My self spenindg more time on there) but I do have a few Q's before I start running my mouth like I know some thing over there.
for starters What am I looking at in terms of just the basics to strat ruuning ths MS
from What I have seen it looks like this
MS harnnes software serial to USB now I know that there is probably more than that but I have yet to find it, mabye you can fill me in.
also doe the MS use oem sensors to get it's readings?
Whats my stock comp gonna due when it sees the MS. it flips @!#$ when I turn on MY shift plus. (yes I know its not fuel related just and EX)
there seem to be alot of vendors with compleate packages are there any that you recomend and would I need to buy anything extra.
I apprectaite the help guys. and I hope this information is helping someone elses besides my self thanks.
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Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
I'm not bashing you or being a dick, I really do know how hard it can be to navigate that site and trying to soak up all the information, but I promise you, answers to ALL your questions are on the website. I'll point you in the right direction.
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for starters What am I looking at in terms of just the basics to strat ruuning ths MS from What I have seen it looks like this
http://www.megasquirt.info/v22manual/mintro.htm (check out the headings under the 'MegaManual | EFI' banner.. One says "What you NEED to Install MegaSquirt".
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also doe the MS use oem sensors to get it's readings?
Really good question. Quick answer is:
IAT/ECT sensors: NO
Rest of sensors (TPS, etc): YES.
Sensor Info
Pretty much the stock computer stays hooked up. In this way you can let it control most of the very troubling issues, like the fuel pump, IAC, tranny, etc. What you will do is give the MS total control over the injectors. You can set up a dual-connector jobby where you can hook up the MS to the injectors, or the stock system. This is exactly what I did and is how I pass the OBD2 emissions test. I put the car basically back to stock fuel spec and let the stock computer run everything, then I pass, and put the car back to turbo spec.
I would hold off on ordering this system until you are confident you have it all relatively down. You don't have to understand/memorize everything from the MS webpage, but you need to be able to troubleshoot basic electronics, know how to solder if you plan to assembly the MS or the electrical harness, and you should definitely positively have a decent grasp on how the system works. Thats the best advice I can give man. Good luck.
I totally understand man I just figured since you seemed cool with me asking a few more Q's I would. Yeah that site is a bit confuseing But I guess so the jbo when you just start.
any who.
to sort of cap this whole thing off I tell you what I know and you can basicly tell me if it sounds about right.
The MS can do alot more then just run your injectors but for what I need it for Thats all I need. besides purchasing the main unit I need to buy the harness that hooksup to the injectors. at the moment I am under the impression that there are kits out there that will let you run the MS in its most baisc state which means it will come with all the nesscacry wires. and sensors. it wont come with some of the other features that the ms has to offer but I donet give a @!#$ I just want a god damn 14.7. any who I am good with a sodering iron. and can follow instrutions. I have a bit more reading to do but I am catching on realitvly quick.
the only thing I have left to ask (and feel fre to comment here PM or not at all) is a question about the MSNS I under stand that it is an attachment but IS it a flash extra hardware or what. how is it integrated.
once again thanks for the help guys.
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Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
I'm glad its all coming together for ya. One thing the MS guys could have done better is explain the evolution of the MS and all its derivatives. I see why they decided not to make that such a big deal however. Theres so much custom code being thrown around that its near impossible to keep track of it all. I guess thats the only bad thing about open source software -- everyone seems to want a whack at what they think it should be.
Thats exactly what the MegaSquirt n' Spark code is. The engineers that designed the MS wrote the basic code, which is then flashed onto a chip on the MS board. This is part of what you're paying for when you order the partial kit from Bruce/Al. They take the chip and flash it with the basic program to run the megasquirt. The same way the supercharger guys can get a 'reflash'. Its simply a newer version of the code with changes added, in this case it's for running the supercharger/bigger injectors/etc.
With the MS however, there is modified code by other programmers. Thats what MSnS is. It provides additional features not shipped with the original MS code for free. It also uses existing hardware for other features (such as nitrous control, traction control, etc). This is extremely exciting and really shows what open source can accomplish.
So to run the MSnS code, to use whatever features of it you want, you download the flashing program and you install a switch across the boot loader pins on the MS board. This is all a ton easier than it sounds. But pretty much built into the MS design is the ability to reflash the MS with whatever custom code you want!!! Eat your heart out emanage..
So thats what you do with the MSnS code. You can then run a special version of MEGATUNE which incorporates these extra features and allows you to set them up. The most significant of the features are on
this page which I've referenced earlier as well.
It is precisely THIS aspect of the MS that makes it so incredible. Show me one other commercial fuel manangement system that releases the code for the controller, let alone design in the ability to modify it!!!
Damn I type WAY too much.
My car does not pull pulsewith and go back to 14:7 anymore, the only thing doing that was boost leaning out the afr, the apexi is a waste of time i dont know why ppl use them, go with the mega squirt
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
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Damn I type WAY too much.
You sire are now my short list of people I would like to thank for getting my car where it is. (well you will be when I get MS working)
so let me get this stragiht The MS is basicly a brain. but whats great is you can ad arms legs. and what ever elese you feel like.
as for the msns. you make it sound like you download the megatune and that will alow you to flash the MS with whatever you feel like. and there was someone who saw this and said ok lets make the MS self aware. does this sound right?
finnaly why are there so few people useing this?
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Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
