Been checking into this and really havent found too much information what this little monster is capable of boost/hp wise, anyone know the efficiency of it etc? just a general inquiry here.
_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**
Well i have heard 10psi .... but some where in around 7-8psi you have to put in Alcohol or water injection (even Nitrous) other wise the charge gets to hot, your engine starts to detonate (or knock) and your computer backs down the timing and you wont see any gain in hp.. It also depends on your elevation... i am sure people lower to sea level can get more boost with out getting knock... but here in Calgary (up in Canada) i can only get about 6-7psi before i start to get knock and dyno charts showed that there was no gain in hp from the 6psi pulley to the 8psi pulley because of the knocking. As for hp it can make thats all dependant on what other parts you have on the car... even boost levels depend on what you got done to the engine.
you can make it a little more effective with a ported head and a dry small shot of nitrous, ppl have run 13s with the 6psi pulley and nitrous, with the headwork you might be able to even dip lower
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Freebs wrote:Well i have heard 10psi .... but some where in around 7-8psi you have to put in Alcohol or water injection (even Nitrous) other wise the charge gets to hot, your engine starts to detonate (or knock) and your computer backs down the timing and you wont see any gain in hp.. It also depends on your elevation... i am sure people lower to sea level can get more boost with out getting knock... but here in Calgary (up in Canada) i can only get about 6-7psi before i start to get knock and dyno charts showed that there was no gain in hp from the 6psi pulley to the 8psi pulley because of the knocking. As for hp it can make thats all dependant on what other parts you have on the car... even boost levels depend on what you got done to the engine.
The efficiency of the supercharger has nothing to do with knock. The problem is when you have air passing through the supercharger with a smaller pulley on, the heat produced by the extra revolutions heats up the air, causing less dense air to actually enter the engine, effectively reducing horsepower. Knock can be fixed on any car provided fuel and timing are adjustable.
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
Mr. Pute - if am not mistaken, less dense air entering the engine is what causes the knock... knock is cause by the air being to hot... even if you adjust the fuel and timing on our supercharged cars you would still need to cool the charge in order to produce more boost because the air will still be to hot entering into the engine producing knock.
i was running 10psi on a 2.6" pulley but i didnt really notice a difference because it got so hot. but after i put the 2.3l cams in and a ported and polished head i only see 6psi now
the reason you only see 6psi is because the charger has more room to breath but it will make alot more HP per psi now so thats good
also dan does the car feel stronger with the ported head?
yeah it feels alot stronger
^ yummy
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
So would the air heat up as much if it had "room to breath." I'm thinking it would get the air out of the charger faster and wouldn't be as hot.
As for the Cams and P&P it feeling alot stronger....
I have a RSM Head Ported out on both sides, I have to port out the charger, I have Secret Cams (I'm not even sure on this, I need a caliper) and HO header... Mine should feel sweet.
<img src="http://www.j-body.org/registry/americanred/deplysig.gif">
Looks like there is some confussion about what Knock really is and what causes it. Knock is detonation in the engine, thats all it is and many things will cause it. Running the supercharger above it's efficiency range will cause knock in the engine due to increased cylinder temps. There are many ways to control knock in the engine.
Here is two really good articles about knock, what causes it and what can be done to fight it. They were written by Zoomer (ZZPerformance) in regards to the S/C 3800 but the general theorys apply here.
About Knock Retard
KR - How to fight
Hope that helps with some of the questions that people have.
Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
A.15 wrote:So would the air heat up as much if it had "room to breath." I'm thinking it would get the air out of the charger faster and wouldn't be as hot.
As for the Cams and P&P it feeling alot stronger....
I have a RSM Head Ported out on both sides, I have to port out the charger, I have Secret Cams (I'm not even sure on this, I need a caliper) and HO header... Mine should feel sweet.
If you free up restriction in the system it will lower the cylinder temps for sure. It's not the biggest way to do it (intercooler being the #1 way to reduce cylinder temps) but it does lower the temps somewhat. The reason it does this is because it will lower the amount of boost the supercharger puts out (remember boost is a measure of restriction) bringing you back into the efficient range of the supercharger if you were above it before but making more power in the process.
Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
Great info Raven....... I think that properly tuned, bolts on, some knock control and of course let boost up 12psi max, the GM SC kit can produce like 225WHp..... Those are only my estimations.
Regards,
___________________________
MAKING MY DREAMS A REALITY
Visit my cardomain site !!!
ELIOT. Now.....boosted.
lol the gm charger kit wont produce 12psi ...
with ported and polished head some cams, 2.6-2.5 pulley, water injection,CAT, 62mm TB, 2.5-3" exhaust piping all the way from high flow 4-1 header with high flow cat and muffler
i think you would see a good 230-240whp if tunned right
people are seeing 200whp with just simple bolt ons and the stock pulley
the charger just really needs to breath in order to keep up with the turbo guys
nice post...lots of good info.
-Phillip -2000 Z24 Supercharged
As much as I want the GM charger I want the expandabilty of a turbo. The GM s/c is cool if you want boost to a point. (If that makes sense.)
<a href="http://www.azjbo.com">
<img src="http://www.jokerzrealm.com/track0.jpg" width=290 height=193></a>
Cool, thanks for the info on the GM charger, definatly something to throw a stick at when building the 2.4 i have sitting in the shop now
plans are to get as much power from the charger as possible and then fog it with another 75-100 shot of the cool stuff with alcohol
if all goes right i should have it up and running by spring so i'll keep you all updated
_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**
stock motor,,, stock pully, seeing 5-6 lbs of boost, making 205 hp at the wheels and 210 ftlbs of tourqe.
.. thats in southern GA though...
for what ever its worth. i just wnated to shar it.
chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
damn i wish i was at the same altitude as you.... to make 203whp i need, 6psi pulley, header, and a 2.5" exhaust. ( i am 1139 metres above sea level)
Freebs wrote:damn i wish i was at the same altitude as you.... to make 203whp i need, 6psi pulley, header, and a 2.5" exhaust. ( i am 1139 metres above sea level)
quit pulling number out of your a$$, you havn't dyno'd your car, you are bassing your numbers off someone elses car that has more done to it than you. you DONT have 200hp
SlowZ24 wrote:Freebs wrote:damn i wish i was at the same altitude as you.... to make 203whp i need, 6psi pulley, header, and a 2.5" exhaust. ( i am 1139 metres above sea level)
quit pulling number out of your a$$, you havn't dyno'd your car, you are bassing your numbers off someone elses car that has more done to it than you. you DONT have 200hp
Actually i do belive he has dyno'd the car, and i do belive it may be on video however i'm not 100% sure on that one
_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**
nope, i gaurantee he hasn't. he doesn't even have a pully or exhaust. he is making up the numbers based on a different car in alberta that has alot more done than he does and the other guy dyno'd at 201hp
well i am using the numbers from Calvin's 2002 S/c cavy... but yes i do have a full 2.5" exhaust on the car, and yes the pulley is on its way... so right now the difference from my car to his, is the pulley... oh and i have an rk sport 4-2-1 header not a Billz 4-2-1 header. (unless of coarse you count the clutch too where that wont make any hp, sure it will hold more but on a dyno it wont matter, unless i was over like 300hp on a stock clutch) and i don't know why you came out of no where just to spaz about some hp number... chill out their buddy... unless you like to be the Internet tuff guy, and sit on the computer and argue to a 17 year old... So ok Calvin has 1.5psi more then me... so i am around 190hp im sorry... (assuming its 9hp per psi) but i forgot you know every thing... so your right i am probably pushing around 150-160whp.
i just want a gm charger..... period...... is that too much to ask.. but nooooo you guys have to torment me like this..... BAH...
Shush Weasel..i want my shirley temple
