Well since a lot of post are about putting in Nitrous to cool down the gm supercharger, i figured i would ask this question. I was originally going to put in a Alcohol Injection kit from alkycontrol.com since they made them for the GTP's... But i have been seeing more and more people asking about the dry nitrous with the s/c and i am wondering if i ran a 35-40shot of dry nitrous through my s/c with the following set up would i be fine? or should i just go with the Alcohol injection? My reason for going with the Nitrous would be because i would get more hp with it as apposed to the alcohol injection.
the car is a 2001 sunfire with 31,500kms on it (19,573 miles) on it.
- Gm supercharger with 6psi pulley
the internals are all stock, would i need to up grade them at all? I would only be making like 240hp (right now it's 200hp at the wheels with the 6psi pulley)
also this was the Nitrous kit i would most likely get if i were to go that way.
Edelbrock Nitrous System
Alcohol injection doesn't make horsepower unless you add methanol to the mix. I believe alkycontrol.com's system does NOT support methanol due to the fact that it eats through their lines and holding tank. Alcohol injection reduces intake and combustion temp up to 200 degrees F. depending on the amount you spray. EGT temps also go down as much. Because of the lower temps, alcohol also acts as an octane booster. The chances of detonation is decreased when you spray. On top of that, the alcohol also has a cooling effect on the supercharger to reduce heat soak.
Nitrous on the other hand (especially a dry system), is prone to detonation. Granted, your fuel system should be able to handle a 35-40 shot. However, it's still nitrous. @!#$ happens. Our brand new J-BOMer who was just inducted into the club on saturday, heard a hissing noise coming from under the hood of his car when people went outside to go check out another car. Turns out, he had a stuck solenoid that was allowing nitrous to inject itself into his engine while it was off! When he went to start up his car....BOOM!! The car sucked the nitrous into the engine and combusted when the car was starting. Not an ideal situation. There was also another J-BOMer who had a stuck solenoid on his ZEX system as he was driving (I can't remember if he was at the track or just screwing around on the street). I can't remember the actual effects of the accident but he had to rebuild because of it. Andy Rothermel in Grand Rapids dynoed with a 70 shot and I think the 2.6" pulley. He made 269 horsepower to the wheels with it! However, his a/f ratio was horribly lean (14's I think).
If you want my opinion, go with alcohol. It's much safer. It's also a ton cheaper ($0.50 bottle of windshield washer fluid versus $40 to fill a 10lb bottle of nitrous).
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
Ok i got some question before i order my kit. Is it safe to run the alcohol through the supercharger? and what are you guys using for the alcohol? thanks
Yes. 50/50 alcohol/water is what I plan to use for the moment. You definitely need to get on a dyno or at least have a wideband O2 sensor to see what it's doing to your engine.
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
where do you buy the alcohol from and what is it called? thanks
Mr. Pute wrote:If you want my opinion, go with alcohol. It's much safer. It's also a ton cheaper ($0.50 bottle of windshield washer fluid versus $40 to fill a 10lb bottle of nitrous).
It's called windshield washer fluid
If you want the pure stuff to do a specific mix with water, you can get denatured alcohol from any hardware store. It's something like $4.00 per gallon at my local store. If you do 50/50 with that, it's good for two gallons of mix.
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
ok cool thanks for the info
A few people are running WI on their GTP's. One guy has done some testing using a temp probe and found that it lowered the outlet temps 100F over stock. This will have the same if not better results than an intercooler and that will allow you to run a smaller pulley and more boost. A few of the guys are using winter (-20 or -40) windshield washer fluid as the mix about %45 methanol. You will need a way to pull fuel from the upper RPM as the methanol is a fuel and you will run rich on the stock fuel tables. Most of the GTP's set it up on an RPM switch so that it comes on just before the engine see's any knock with a smaller pulley. It takes some playing with to setup properly but once it's tuned in they say it works great.
Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
sounds kinda difficult to set up to get running right with a smallerpulley, i would always be worried that id forget to fill the injection tank and then blow my engine up or that it wouldnt work when needed
does anyone have any links to as how this is done, id like to run my 2.6 pulley with some actual benifits to it
I'll have my alcohol system up and running within a week or two. I have all the parts laying on my floor in my bedroom. Just gotta make the time to assemble it.
Not to mention I'm building my wideband O2 sensor at the moment.
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
nice thanks raven
also does our cars have a knock sensor? ive never if thought about that till now
raven wrote:A few people are running WI on their GTP's. One guy has done some testing using a temp probe and found that it lowered the outlet temps 100F over stock. This will have the same if not better results than an intercooler and that will allow you to run a smaller pulley and more boost. A few of the guys are using winter (-20 or -40) windshield washer fluid as the mix about %45 methanol. You will need a way to pull fuel from the upper RPM as the methanol is a fuel and you will run rich on the stock fuel tables. Most of the GTP's set it up on an RPM switch so that it comes on just before the engine see's any knock with a smaller pulley. It takes some playing with to setup properly but once it's tuned in they say it works great.
I was just gonna say WATER INJECTION. You read my mind lol
My friend just got his set up on his GTP using the winsheild washer fluid. I kow it's a cheap way off cooling temps...BUT IT WORKS!!!!! It really dosen't cost that much to set up either. He has almost no knock running a 3.0" pulley when he had alot of knock before the WI. Believe me...IT WORKS. And it's cheap. yo'd probably only go through 1 gallon a month of washer fluid....at roughly $2.00 a gallon...that alot cheaper than the other routes listed above.
Yea i know Alcohol doesn't ad hp... i have used it in the gnx for the past 2 or 3 years now and it seems to work wondered on it (plus being the octane booster i could even go for the lower octane gas and save a bit of money being that i am still in High school).. but i was just wondering how well the dry shot works... but Mr. Pute answered my question with saying how it detonates easy (thats what i am trying to avoid.)
=OrangeZ= yes we do have a knock sensor... i actually have a knock gauge from Caspers... works nicely... every one else tells me it was a waist of money but personally i would like to know when i am getting knock and how bad it is.
Mr. Pute wrote:Alcohol injection doesn't make horsepower unless you add methanol to the mix. I believe alkycontrol.com's system does NOT support methanol due to the fact that it eats through their lines and holding tank.
That is not true. It seems that the kits from Alkycontrol.com ARE made to run methanol. I am using a Alky Control kit with straight methanol, and I have not had any problems with the lines or tank corroding. There is teflon in the lines, so there should not be a problem with the methanol eating through the lines. The guy who sells those kits has been running the same kit on is Grand National for over 1 year I think without any problems.
275hp & 306tq - 1999 2.2 ohv
13.2 @ 108 mph
-1996 2.4 liter + Turbo + Built motor + Torco + More boost = Lots o' Power
-2000 Mustang GT + 2004 Cobra motor, Whipple 2.3 supercharger,
built rear-end,Dodge Viper spec T56 6 speed, bolt-ons = wheelies at the track!!!!!
My bad adler. I was thinking of www.coolingmist.com. Some of the parts in the system I'm building are from Alkycontrol. hehe
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
this sounds interesting.
luke i will give u a call sometime soon, maybe after 10pm. or if not on the weekend to talk about this.
wouldnt the methanol hurt the coating on the rotor blades on the gm charger??
If I was to put this alcohol system on my car what exactly do I need to buy to make it work. And how much is the system?
=OrangeZ= yes the alcohol will ruen the coating on the rotor's... you need to get a machine shop to drill into each one of the ports on the intake parts.
i thought the GTP guys were shooting it before the s/c??? drilling and tapping the throttle bodys? guess i gotta do more reading but im very interested at this point!
i dont understand
how would this work other then directport with the gm supercharger then, like bluzr2 said i thought the gtp owners where using this before the charger
how would it even work with the charger as there is no way to mount one injector on each port as most system only support one or two
Personally this topic is very interesting to me for my near future boost needs, but I have heard that send any type of fluid, I mean alcohol, water, methanol, or windshield fluid through the supercharger will damage it internal parts, maybe not so fast but at the end it will ruin your supercharger. I think the nitrous would produce the safer cooling effect to be used before the SC.
I have an idea but is in paper right now. The idea would be using something like a garolite or aluminium spacer (similar to the ones the Exploited Racing sells to isolate some heat from the SC) between the SC and head with an special micro-tubing(almost capilar) and pressurized line to inject alcohol or water. Some industrial machine uses a similar type of mechanism. Also engine heat, and boost and vaccum events will help to avoid dropping efect. As I said right now is only an idea.
Regards,
___________________________
MAKING MY DREAMS A REALITY
Visit my cardomain site !!!
ELIOT. Now.....boosted.
TheGTP guys do spray it before the S/C. They get a T.B. spacer and tap the nozzle into it....well with the water injection anyways....not sure about the alch. injection. I'm telling ya...water injection is the way to go. it cost my friend $130 for his set-up. You really cant beat that. And I don't think the waser fluid wil hurt the rotor blades.
jake: *me waits by phone for teh Jake to call*
"The idea would be using something like a garolite or aluminium spacer (similar to the ones the Exploited Racing sells to isolate some heat from the SC) between the SC and head"
I'm not sure if the spacer is large ebough to fit the nozzles. if IIRC...the spacers are only 5/8" thich. Any larger than that and the S/C will probably be a really tight fit against your core support.
I can get a parts list for the water injection if people would like.
