Ok.. I'm posting this to get everyone's opinions on what type of boost they feel is better for LD9 (2.4) motors in our cavys. Please don't hesitate to post your opinions and thoughts to back up or sway my thought of slapping a turbo or a SC on my cavy!

I prefur Turbo's because you can always push more boost if you want to or turn it down. Honestly I don't know alot about superchargers or how they rate compared to turbo's. I do know that they giv eyou instant power.. no spool-up time not to mention that tehy have excellent torque out of the hole.. that's about all I know of the mechanical workings of a supercharger. Now i personally want a turbo for my car.. but im still undecided and looking for all of the input education i ca get my hands on to find out which over all will perform better. If any of you have ready my other post.. w/ a turbo i want to puch about 12 psi and run a 9:1 compression build the motor completely (pistons, headwork, valvetrain, cams.. possibly camgears) and then run a dry 25 shot of direct port to the motor in combination with an NX N-tercooler to cool down the airflow going into the turbo to improve the HP and performance as well as to keep the motor as cool as possible, especially on hot days on the track. Inno this might sound cliche' or stupid.. but also because of the BOV.. they sound so good to hear a turbo spool up then to relase that extra boost in the pipes... sounds so good! lol If you could slap a BOV on a SC i would definalty think of maybe going w/ a SC.. but i want the SC to run 12psi in the end.. and i've heard of problems with them over heating. But again those are rumors.. I'm looking for FACTS here. I love the idea of LOW end torque.. but i want fuel efficiancy too. I drive near 100 miles sometimes more every day to and from work. So I need it to be economical as well. most of the time i keep my foot out of it to/from work.. Other times I'm just in the mood to drive faster. So considering all of this and the set up i previously mentioned from all of you EXPERIANCED boost guiru's that know what's the happs with Boost... what is my best option to obtain about 250 WHP in a daily driver.



Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe.
-Saint Augustine

Correct me if I'm wrong, this is just what I heard, but I think 250 whp out of a supercharger is nearing the limits of what you can get if it is even possible.

AFAIK, if you build your 2.4, 250 whp is very easy to obtain with the right setup without putting too much strain on your engine.

Also with a turbo you can choose the turbo in function of when you want it to spool up, like a bigger turbo spools later, so you can still ride all day without hitting boost thus staying pretty economical.

DanteMustDie wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, this is just what I heard, but I think 250 whp out of a supercharger is nearing the limits of what you can get if it is even possible.

AFAIK, if you build your 2.4, 250 whp is very easy to obtain with the right setup without putting too much strain on your engine.

Also with a turbo you can choose the turbo in function of when you want it to spool up, like a bigger turbo spools later, so you can still ride all day without hitting boost thus staying pretty economical.

^^ Very good info!! this is the kinda feed back i'm looking for



Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe.
-Saint Augustine

****Bump bump bump****



Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe.
-Saint Augustine

****search search search****



<img src=http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/6/web/366000-366999/366852_10.jpg><img src=http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/6/web/366000-366999/366852_13.jpg>

obviously search search search.. but that gives me general information about SC's & TC's not first hand experiance from people who run it. I can read 45 books and know everything about something but still be ignorant without personal experiance of the subject. That's why i started this thread... for peoples personal experiance that are runnin SC's and TC's pro's & Con's to each, Likes & dislikes... ect. General Stickys and what not wont tell me about that. Im sure i could spend 40 hours reading numerous other posts about this but does it seriously hurt to have people respond to a thread? I personally don't think so. I reply to eveone's questions if i do have something i feel they should know, not tell them to search for something ya know? I know it's a little less convientant because you "might" have to actually type more than 30 characters.. but isn't that what were all in a J-body enthusiast forum for? to help & educate other's w/o tearing them down. Plus odds are if i searched & actually found something.. how would it answer my specific and multiple questions I asked. I've searched for things before and they didnt help at all... It's not like the Jedi Archives in Episode 2. LOL I'm sorry if this post pisses people off because I'm asking them for "THIER" personal opinion about this matter... but i thought it would be a good thread to start to hear user feedback.. alot like surveying customers for feedback.



Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe.
-Saint Augustine

As for the part about the supercharger heating up, you can solve that 1 of 2 ways...
1. just buy a RSM supercharger with the intercooler
2. Buy an Alcohol Injection kit a put it on with your GM supercharger and i think there is one person who has gotten around 10-11psi on it..

I personally chose the gm s/c because of its warranty since i still have warranty on my car, and because of the lack of turbo lag. Also since my car is a standard, and i thing turbo's work a bit better with Auto's because every time you let off the clutch in a standard you loose some of your boost. I am by no means saying superchargers are better, but at the same time i don't think turbos are better then superchargers... its all personal preference and what you want out of your car in the end...
plus looking at my s/c kit v.s my buddys turbo kit for his 2.4L... my'n is much much more complete and i am 3/4 done the install and its only taken 4 or 5 hours where as my buddy with his turbo has taken him like 2 months (we both are still in grade 12, and he works like every day so there is little time for him to work on the turbo)

^^^ Ty! well that's whut I asked for was your 2 cents



Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe.
-Saint Augustine

both

Centrifugal superchargers (like a vortech) build their boost internally in the valute. This makes the intake charge cooler. A roots type blower compressor the air between the blower and the piston and this makes higher intake charge temps. The roots type has a better power band and centrifugal blowers are said to make boost after 3k rpms. But looking at some power bands...the ecotec (i know were talking about the 2.4l) makes 75 percent of its max torque around 2k 2.5k rpm...with the same blower v9. That same v9 blower is used in other kits around 10+ psi and vortech said the max capacity is 20psi
I've also seen higher hp numbers on a vortech. The RSM car has 240 whp at 9 psi I think and has room to improve with a water injection or air to water cooler.
Also the v9 is used on a wide variety of engines...even 350's
Food for thought...what do you want? A broad almost v8 like power band? or just a high peak hp number?




It's just now cutting it's teeth.

I know our power band is mid band gnerally after 15 mph to about 70ish, my 2200 was the same way. this 2.4 is a little better out of the hole but dogs a little off the line when you give it throttle.. I'm looking for an all around quick car w/ good economical numbers. I've heard from countless people that turbos do jsut that on highways when you're not hard into the throttle and pushing boost, which makes sense. I've heard the same thing about SC's as long as you keep your foot out of it. I'd like to have the torque of a SC. But i know there are other ways (enternals) which you can increase your torque which is more reliable thatn counting on a sc or turbo. But when you're pushing anything over the stock HP amount out of a motor. I understand that. I would like a car that would be a good competetor & fun to run & drive. I'm not building a new motor to go strictly drag, nor am I doing it just for show so it can be a trailor queen. It's an every day driver which i'd like to have HP there and Torque there when i want & need it.. and to make it a fun enjoyable car to drive. That's why i'm not looking for more than 250 WHP on my car. it makes no sense to have a car with more HP than that and drive it daily 60-80 miles.. then race it on occasional weekends. So I've researched alot this weekend about both. and gotten numerous other opinions from owners of both. For drags, yes SC's are better instant torque & power.. but that doesnt help on a daily driven car.. only when you dont mind guzzling gas & getting somewhere fast. Even tho there's a spool-up time or turbo lag if not timed correctly I feel for my wants/needs that it's the best thing for me to buy. So hopefully in a few years i'll have the motor ready (if i dont buy a base turbo first )

-thankyou for all of your honest opinions!



Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe.
-Saint Augustine

Turbo! *drops 2 cents in*


"Beer, the cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems..."
-Homer
My SRT-4
Mopar Stage 2, Mopar BOV, Mopar STS, Booger Bushings, B&B Turbo Back 3" Exhaust, Greddy Turbo Timer, Greddy Profec B Spec 2 EBC, Injen Intake, Rage Wastegate Actuator, Zex Inercooler Sprayer, ES Motor Mount Inserts, $20 Oil Catch Can, MSD Ignition Coil, MSD 8.5mm Ignition wires, NGK Spark Plugs, SRT A/F Ratio Gauge by AutoMeter in a custom pod

Troll...Did ya read what i wrote?
Let me sum it up
Vortech s/c=good gas mileage, better reliability. S/C don't have boost while cruising, and vortech doesn't build boost unless standing on the pedal (from what I'm told...soon will find out

Turbo=Bad reliability. Had on for a month and blew a seal in the turbo...lots of blue smoke....maybe I just had a bad apple, i dunno. too much heat




It's just now cutting it's teeth.

bad reliability turbo ? that is if you don't know how to maintain it.

keep going, i am having the same problem deciding what i want because i have a auto, and it seems like s/c would be "safer" i think, but i want a turbo...but s/c would be just as good(i think). any input on supercharger or turbo charging my auto??(i know i could search but this seems like the right post to put this question in) but i wanna know which would work better....

basically i just want your 2 cents on this to.

I'm sorry turbos aren't "unreliable" turbos are "less reliable".
They run extremely hot, tunning is not as easily accomplished, lots of plumbing intake and exhaust, turbo lag...hell even chosing a turbo (if your not gonna get a kit)



You want 250whp? Jenny has 219 at the wheels. I believe at 6 psi...watter injection and a cylineder port and polish and you will be pushing 240 plus (realistically guesstimated)


http://www.j-body.org/members/jennyjo24/cars/1/

My 2 cents....fun reliability and you can achieve your goal. It might be a little more expensive then a turbo but I think it's worth it.




It's just now cutting it's teeth.

didnt they get a cobalt SS to 500 hp? thats supercharge... i think with a s/c you can do more than 250whp. i mean your not racing all the time but if you were a "weekend warrior" you should build up your engine to hold the s/c and a good 75 shot.


<img src="http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/jiggaman/personal_pic.jpg">

If it wasnt for the chicken, i wouldnt get layed.

Aaron wrote:I'm sorry turbos aren't "unreliable" turbos are "less reliable".
They run extremely hot, tunning is not as easily accomplished, lots of plumbing intake and exhaust, turbo lag...hell even chosing a turbo (if your not gonna get a kit)

I have not had any problems from my turbo set up....around 10K miles with the turbo. If you go by a compressor map, choosing a turbo should be pretty straight forward.




275hp & 306tq - 1999 2.2 ohv
13.2 @ 108 mph
-1996 2.4 liter + Turbo + Built motor + Torco + More boost = Lots o' Power
-2000 Mustang GT + 2004 Cobra motor, Whipple 2.3 supercharger,
built rear-end,Dodge Viper spec T56 6 speed, bolt-ons = wheelies at the track!!!!!

stupid question, stupid post. not worth answering