Alright so I posted this on ecotec forum but wanted to get a broader base of answers incase someone here has done it before...

just to recap on my current build (incomplete but the gist of my mods):
stock M62
stage 1 belt
3.0" smoothflow pulley
racetronix fuel pump/harness
lsj pace setter header / full 2.5" exhaust
phenolic spacer (right now only one between blower and IM) - other removed temporarily
stage 2 injectors (42.5lb/hr)
and zzp s3 h/e with dual pass ep and option b setup
im currently only at 8-9psi wot (trust me, its faster than it sounds on only this much booost )

will this setup be okay with either of these scenarios, and which is better?
A. stage 2 ecotec cams, 2.8 pulley, meth
B. stage 2 ecotec cams only
C. 2.8 pulley, meth only

basically i can get the cams through a trade and the pulley is cheap enough to just buy, then get the stage2 belt (sitting in my trunk) to finally fit.

i believe all 3 options would require a retune..which i may take to a dyno shop to do it properly


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

A.

But you'll need valve springs.

i was hoping youd chime in.....im glad to see that the combo would work...and i already talked to the trader (local club member) about some springs...

so the cams, pulley, and the springs would be good? think it'll put me on the edge of 'safe' power, close to 300whp? or still a bit off?


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

i think this has ben asked before but would a set of lsj valve springs be considered an upgrade or swappable?


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

Like Tink Tink said, option A. Small pulley is gonna increase torque more than hp, stage 2 cams will give you good mid-high rpm increase, and the smaller pulley will also help compensate for the small amount of torque you'll lose with the cams.

If you're going 2.8, I wouldn't even chance it without meth. At a 2.8, the blower I'll be tehnjcally "over-revved" and will be a massive Dutch oven.

And yes, you need new valve springs (anything more than stock requires it), and no, LSJ valve springs are not an upgrade...all gen 1 eco's actually use the same springs (and adjusters/followers). Supertech 78lb springs are the best bang for the buck, and will handle anything even as large as gmr cams

Oh, and of course tuning would be required for any/all of those upgrades

agreed, springs, tune, all required if altering the cams.

I plan on going with a meth kit direct injection to the intake manifold (in order to bypass the blower), just havent read up much on how its actually run and read up on the meth setup itself. things like 'how often to refill the container (obviously depends on the size of it too), what is a common failure in meth systems (do hoses break a lot or does the injector require maintenance after so much use, etc). i dont drive my car like a bat out of hell but i am into boost at least a few times wherever i drive. so i know meth is important but im trying to decide what all is my goal and how far to take this build on the m62.

what kinda power would you guys that have done this type of setup before estimate with the 3.0 and stg2 cams, 2.8 and stg2 cams, etc? also am i correct to try to stay under the safe limit of 275-300whp so i dont greatly endanger the internal components of my stock motor?


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

I would suggest injecting the meth into the throttle body adapter and just let it go through the blower, it'll be find. Youre rate of consumption will depend on the size nozzle (rated in gallons per hour) and the controller you use...i.e. A progressive controller will increase the injection with boost pressure, and a standard boost pressure switch will inject consistently as long as it sees boost. I'd recommend just getting the boost pressure switch, our setups aren't really "big" enough to warrant the progressive controller.

A 50/50 mix of meth and distiller water should be a good mix, and I would suggest either running a flow gauge, or at minimum use a low level indicator. Running out of meth while boosting...that would be your "common failure". I wouldn't worry too much about the lines or fittings failing..they're all high pressure rated and if installed correctly will be fine. A good tuning, and really fine tuning it, is crucial to running meth.

I'd say don't push too much beyond 275, if you make it there (which honestly, I don't think you quite will, even with the cams). With an excellent tune, 250 is a realistic (and safe goal). GM rates our stock internals for 250hp...some have successfully pushed it beyond that figure and held the motors together, and some have not. I really think beyond 250, your're rolling the dice on longevity.
I think with a solid tune, I think you can hover at 250hp safely, and still get plenty of miles out of the motor...key to this whole thing being A GOOD TUNE. ditch Tricecta (and remote tuning period), there's not good substitute for the tuner being in the car experiencing it in real time. Just my 2 cents

Look into AIS meth kits.....or at the very least their tanks. Im going to run their 3gal setup. Its a sick tank is great quality. I second the pressure switch. The way our boost comes on its pretty much instant so a progressive controller is a waste of money.

evil thanks for the input!

The problem I have here in San Antonio is we dont really have a good jbody tuner, someone that really knows the Ecotecs. Basically I'd have to plan a trip somewhere there is a tuner, install everything there, get it live tuned, and then drive back.
That or hope one of the local Speed shops (JMS, Noribilt, etc) can properly tune our engines despite specializing in more popular imports like Evos and Mazdas, Hondas, Subies, etc.

So you dont think the meth will ruin the turbines in the blower? Ive heard quite a few people mention that the coating on them can get corroded with that mixture over time


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

If you were running straight meth and were boosting like 95% of the time (where it'd always be traveling through), I'd be worried about rotor harm. Outside of that I wouldn't think twice about it.

Contact QWK CAV. He's in St. Luis and will travel to tune. He came up to Chicago to tune my car and I'll have him back to tune my turbo setup as well.

JUCNBST..reasonable pricing?...id love to have a live tuner...i never thought id go with a remote-tune but sometimes you just dont have any other option unless you wanna pay a performance shop 3x the amount and not guaruntee they know your engine well enough.

and evil, good to know. Im a lot more comfortable tapping the intake system/tb than the IM itself. I have yet to see a how-to (with pics and explanation) on meth setup but it should be the same for any car...really a universal upgrade. my only question to that is does the boost pressure switch do all the work or does it require any tuning through the ECU or anything? also how does the system let you know if its low or has low pressure to the nozzle?


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

You need to tune for meth...it essentially replaces some of your fueling. The boost pressure switch is mearly the device that tellls the pump when to start/stop pumpimg.

Most kits have a low level indicator for the tank (or one can be added). There's also the option of a flow gauge, or if you're really worried, and want to spend the extra cash for peace of mind, AEM makes a nice failsafe system that will monitor the meth flow and if the system detects an issue it can pull timing, etc

extra cash...what is this you speak of?


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

blu04DD wrote:extra cash...what is this you speak of?

Lol, I have no idea...my car has been eating mine as of lately

Pricng was resonable, shoot him a pm and see what he says...

you guys have a link to a good set of valve springs? I found out they are the JBP stage 2 cams. So they're not overly aggressive but would make a noticable difference.
was told to grab some double springs...would i be able to do just springs or would i need anything else? im guessing having the motor opened up i should think about replacing the timing chain guide too right since they tend to go out?

trying to get an estimate of what my costs will be if i do this....with a proper tune id love to be able to get some more power out of the RPMs considering i shut down right now around 6800 or less....and thats where the turbo builds can keep up or pull on me. anything before that though im usually ahead


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

why not get the blower cams vs. the stage 2? they are supposedly safe according to comp and some people on here.

the stage 1 blower and turbo cams are suppose to be straigh in, no supporting mods, or so i have been reading.

but it seems alot add springs and valves and have issues and get rid of the cams.
but those with stock top end are fine, epecially if you arent over revving.

Snowman wrote:why not get the blower cams vs. the stage 2? they are supposedly safe according to comp and some people on here.

the stage 1 blower and turbo cams are suppose to be straigh in, no supporting mods, or so i have been reading.

No, no, no, oh @!#$ god, no. They ARE NOT safe on stock @!#$.

I'm just questioning what I have found by searching,I'm not saying its safe or not, just questioning

I think stock valves/guide are ok, but upgrading the springs is a must for anything beyond a stock cam. High revs or not.

It annoys the hell out of me when people think aftermarket cams are safe with the stock springs, especially with boost. It is like we have never heard of coil bind and valve float. All of the other platforms know to upgrade but we are just retards.

the reason i went with the stage 2 JBP cams is because they are whats available for trade. I swapped out the wheels i had for sale and got the cams straight up, so its a done deal. that doesnt mean I cant trade someone cams on here.

they should be a nice moderate upgrade with a little extra oomph to the front wheels though...those with the smaller pulley, valve springs, and a meth kit should bring in a noticable upgrade to my speed...because my car was pulling fairly well on a stock 09 mazdaspeed3 (turbo obviously) from 40-120+. But when he got his Cobb AP/tune which increased his boost from 15.5 to 17.1 (or so) and allowed his RPMs to continue to build boost up to about 6800 (factory cuts the power/fuel at 5500 or so) he is now able to pull on me after i initially gain a car in 3rd...by the time im in 4th and pulling through 4th, he's gaining on me now. my 4th gear pulls just dont have the power some of the turbos i run have.


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.