i cant decide which to go with....they both have pros and cons, im only looking to produce 230 hp i do not want to replace all my internals, or stress them but pushing it to 250hp.
Hahn Stage II - there is no substitute
Theres not another charger or pre fab turbo setup out there currently that would produce that power mark off the shelf, maybe in the future but not at the moment
The RSM Stage 2 is an option however it will take several months to get because it comes with a machined head and its 1500 more than what the Hahn Stage II is, the gas mileage on a vortech is awesome if its tuned right however upgrading or making any changes to try to pick up power is a real problem because everything is so proprietary, turbo is more universal and alot easier to get help with esp here
One thing thats happened to me with my vortech setup is that ive been largely alone with it so when I have an issue it takes me ALOT longer to diagnose whats going on because nobody else has it so I have nobody to compare notes with, not to mention manf. support which is non-existant if I was smarter with this stuff I'm sure I could make it alot more effective but its really not for the novice like me.
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
You are going to get people on here saying one is better than the other.
Personally I prefer a turbo. Turbocharged cars have a unique feeling to them when the turbo spools. A turbo does not rob power the same way a supercharger does.
A supercharger is going to have more of a naturally aspirated feeling because the power from the charger builds as the rpm rises.
Rodimus Prime wrote:Hahn Stage II - there is no substitute
The hahn setup is very nice, no arguing that... but saying there is no substitute... I disagree.
The saab turbo setup has proven to be an efficient setup that is fun to drive daily and is suited very well for a stock engine like this guy is requesting.
The gm supercharger is also a great setup for someone wanting to keep stock internals and run safely.
"Growing old is mandatory. Growing up? Definitely optional."
Depends upon what you want. I like the charger, I've had mine on the car for almost 30k miles and all I've done is regular oil changes.
There is still more potential in it as well (smaller pulleys) and the trap speeds are already nice. The turbo cars definitely feel faster, the power hits very hard where mine is very linear.
It's all personal preference. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Currently I wouldn't change my choice.
12.770 @ 111.99 Intercooled Eaton M62
Rodimus Prime wrote:Hahn Stage II - there is no substitute
Theres not another charger or pre fab turbo setup out there currently that would produce that power mark off the shelf, maybe in the future but not at the moment
The RSM Stage 2 is an option however it will take several months to get because it comes with a machined head and its 1500 more than what the Hahn Stage II is, the gas mileage on a vortech is awesome if its tuned right however upgrading or making any changes to try to pick up power is a real problem because everything is so proprietary, turbo is more universal and alot easier to get help with esp here
One thing thats happened to me with my vortech setup is that ive been largely alone with it so when I have an issue it takes me ALOT longer to diagnose whats going on because nobody else has it so I have nobody to compare notes with, not to mention manf. support which is non-existant if I was smarter with this stuff I'm sure I could make it alot more effective but its really not for the novice like me.
so you go from saying the hahn kit isn't perfect, to saying there's no substitute, all in what, 48 hours? lol
and you forgot the GM S/C.... which, is about the same price as Stage 2 (depending on the dealer I guess)... It doesn't get as much power out of the box, no, but it DOES have OEM quality and reliability on its side (not like hahn kits have shown many, if any problems). I'm quite confident the M62 that comes with the GM kit will be able to push a 2.2 to 300whp with the right supporting mods and further tuning with hptuners. And 300 hp is really around the limit of a useable street car anyway (FWD of course).
But anyway, what kit to get really depends on your experience level, desired power, what you'll be using it for, etc.... there's just too many factors to list them all here. Hahn will give you the most initial power and potential power for the least coin (so far as bolt on kits go)... But on the other hand, any turbo kit is subject to some annoying driveability issues that can be hard to diagnose, such as boost leaks, wastegate issues, surging, etc. I'm not saying you WILL have these problems but the potential is there. RSM, well frankly, i think Rodimus will admit that he wouldn't go that route again if you paid him to. And the GM S/C kit gets oem quality, a decent amount of upgradeability, and fewer potential problems( no charge pipes or couplers to leak boost, no diaphragm actuated wastegate) for a bit more money than hahn.
Me, personally, if i had an eco cav right now, I'd find a junkyard Cobalt SS and steal the charger off of it. But, between the Hahn and GM kits, their advantages and disadvantages kinda come to a tie in my mind... so whichever you feel more comfortable installing.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
My viewpoint hasnt changed at all I didnt say it was perfect but theres nothing else out thats as good, I didnt forget the GM it just wasnt worth mentioning it doesnt produce anything near 230whp, it probably doesnt produce a whole lot more than what I have with my rsm. Plus GM doesnt know anything about thier own products so I would hate to have technical issues with it. Everything is a run around at the dealership.
The Saab setup your going to have to piece the whole thing together which can be a real pain. As far as my current setup goes the RSM stage 1 im making 185whp with it, not bad but prob not what I was expecting. Only real issues ive had is lack of support from RSM, lean issues which were fixed by simply putting in larger injectors and a poorly designed placement of the radiator hose which I fixed with zip ties and some stainless steel hose cover, ive since added the MSD and water injection
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Supercharger guys love there Charger kits without a doubt, but think of how many jumped off the bandwagon and went turbo cause they wanted more power.
airtonics dyno'ed well over 200 with his s/c from the redline/cobalt , with 100% stock exhaust
and i believe a few others have dyno'ed in the 200 range also
i will get the g/fs to the dyno after i get the reflash done
haveing ridden in brandosons cav , and fstcav's8-10psi , i can say the saab set up is way more fun , and alot more seat of the pants to it , both over all are pretty dam fun
having had a turbo myself , and having a s/c currently , i can say 100% that im glad ive got a s/c now , personally , ill prob not do a turbo unless it comes off the show room floor
both are great and the choice is yours , best thing i can tell you is find some people local , with s/c and turbo and go for a ride in each , before you decied
gm s/c + header + exhaust should get you your 230 whp...
airtonics dynoed at 218 whp with only the charger... I wouldn't be surprised if he was pushing near 240 whp right now with his new mods...
both turbo and s/c can give you 230 whp reliably (even a turbo can be reliable if done well the first time), the rest is a matter of preferences...
15.574 @ 89 mph stock without charger. new times with charger coming soon.
thank you all you guys youre a great help. i think im going to go with the gm supercharger (2495.95) it comes with everything and its has a built in air to water intercooler.... plus my wife drives it.... and what im really looking for is reliability and 230hp. from what ive seen (done a crap load of reasearch) the s/c is the way im gonna go....theres a cavy in lincoln that has it, and hes got all the same other mods as me plus no cat/sim and hes pulling low 14s-mid 13s depending on traction issues.
keep in mind, while the gm kit comes with the intercooler cores installed, it doesn't include the plumbing, reservoir, pump, or wiring.... so you can either get some parts from the auto/hardware store to do it yourself or you'll have to order that stuff extra from GM. Unless you steal it off a junkyard redline or cobalt SS
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
its comes with a built in intercooler on the intake manifold. www.paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=167186 here are the pics i couldnt get them to load on to the forum
im gonna say saab is gonna be the best engineered well tied w/ the gm supercharger......It was developed by saab
*************Yea i spell liek wrong get over it*****************
** If i write in caps its cause im @ work and i can only write in caps cause the keyboard is a retarded CAPS only keyboard.**
scarab is right, it does not come with everything you need for it to be intercooled.
it only comes with the cores installed.
that website is mis-informing.
"Growing old is mandatory. Growing up? Definitely optional."
