Hello Org,
I am taking a poll to decide which header I go with for my setup. You'll all end up probably voting on my entire exhaust in the end, but this is my start.
Choice #1:
IPerformance 4-2-1
Header and catalytic converter in tri-coat ceramic coated finish
PN SHBILL16C.......................$759.00
(Attempting to see if I can get it with out the CAT since I can get the CAT cheaper and want to use a different model.
Choice #2:
Pace Setter 4-1
70-1279
02-04 Cavalier/Sunfire, 02-04 Grand Am/Alero/Mailbu, 2.2L Ecotec
259.95
Choice #3:
RK Sport 4-2-1
2003 - 05 Ecotec 4:2:1 Header - #020910026
Price: $450.00
Choice #4:
Your Choice Of Header
Where do I get it and how much?
Choice #5:
Stock Exhaust Manifold
it's not worth the money you won't get any real gains from it.
I would also like a quick one line answer as to why you chose the option that you did, and what kind of performance gains you think I would get from it. I know I am asking a bit much but this is my first time doing and exhaust on boosted application and I would like to do it as correct as possible. I don't care about the money issue, if it gives me worth while gains I don't mind spending extra.
Pacesetter. I never had any experience with the I performance but i think its expensive and the Rk is just like the Weapon R which didnt really give me a large gain and its a pain to install.
yea i would say pacesetter
*************Yea i spell liek wrong get over it*****************
** If i write in caps its cause im @ work and i can only write in caps cause the keyboard is a retarded CAPS only keyboard.**
that pacesetter you have a pic of is the probe V6 , lol
this is the pacesetter -
get the coated 1 not the painted 1 in the picture
the rk and weapon r , have to many bends which are not good for use with a s/c , makes for to much restriction in the exhaust , and you want free flowing
i just think the iperformance 1 is to much , and the money is better spent else where
my vote is the coated pacesetter
don't get the painted one....it stinks for like 2 weeks as the paint burns off and then looks like poop afterwards. i got the painted one after I pulled off my turbo setup and I wish I would spent the extra money getting the coated one.
Boosted Eco @9psi for now....WRX come spring.....
pacesetter ceramic coated its the best out there and its inexpensive
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
I'm happy with my pacesetter, easy install and product quality is good for the price. Just don't use the downpipe with it (it narrows to 1 7/8" I remade one at 2.5 like the rest of the exhaust.
12.770 @ 111.99 Intercooled Eaton M62
i heard that the pacesetter flange doesnt match up sometimes. i had one on my old z it worked fine but people told me it would rust and the ceramic coated one would peel. thats what i heard though.
^^^Thats not true. I've had my Pacesetter ceramic-coated header on for over 2 years, and the coating still looks brand new. If I recall correctly, Pacesetter has the ceramic coating done by Jet Hot., which has a lifetime warranty if i'm not mistaken.
i went with the RK sport 4-2-1 on my 2.4L with the supercharger... felt like i lost a bit of low end torque but gained high end power, over all i was pleased with the out come of it...
and it looks kind of sexy sticken up from the back like this:
The First Twin Charged jbody
blue car (R.I.P) - 240whp @7psi..
silver car - 305whp 315lbs.tq @15psi (91 Octane) or 420whp & 425lbs.TQ @20psi (94 octane+Alcohol Injection)
All dynos run on a Mustang dyno
to clareafy what airtonics said
the header only next down on the lower section of the down pipe for the stock cat , if your gonna use a high fow cat then you just need to cut the necked down section
or you can do what he did and have a custom down pipe made
If a supercharger is good through the entire rpm range, why not compliment its strong points with a header that can help the entire rpm range? Go with a 4-2-1.
Admiral Jedi wrote:If a supercharger is good through the entire rpm range, why not compliment its strong points with a header that can help the entire rpm range? Go with a 4-2-1.
thats the thing... the supercharger is good in low end... and kind of dies off up top... not compleatly but still doesnt have as big of a pull
The First Twin Charged jbody
blue car (R.I.P) - 240whp @7psi..
silver car - 305whp 315lbs.tq @15psi (91 Octane) or 420whp & 425lbs.TQ @20psi (94 octane+Alcohol Injection)
All dynos run on a Mustang dyno
Josh F wrote:Admiral Jedi wrote:If a supercharger is good through the entire rpm range, why not compliment its strong points with a header that can help the entire rpm range? Go with a 4-2-1.
thats the thing... the supercharger is good in low end... and kind of dies off up top... not compleatly but still doesnt have as big of a pull
hahahaha that wee bitty m45 you have may die off, but not the eco M62.... ever seen an LSJ dyno? HP just keeps climbing all the way until it bangs into the limiter.
IFrankly, i don't think i've ever seen so many people on the .org agree on anything ever.... The RK 4-2-1 is definitely some sweet eye candy, but on the other hand with the mods you have in mind Festa, I'd think a very direct flow path and 4-1 merge collector will suit you better. Lord knows you don't have the traction to get any use out of more torque...
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
i have the weapon R which is virtually the same as the rk and its not as good as the pacesetter for a number of reasons
1. Heat - the rk isnt coated and because those pipes curve up it heats up the whole engine bay
2. The design is dumb why would you curve a pipe up 90 degrees then 90 degrees back down more curves arent good , if there was a straight shot 4-2-1 out there then maybe there would be a reason but there isnt
3. Price - nothing can match pacesetter on that
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
i got the isuzuperformance header and couldnt be happier. not sure how it works on the ecotec's.
i would go with the coated pacesetter if i were you.
good luck
Ive got the pacesetter coated 4-1 and the gmpp m62 and it feels great low end and all the way into top end
Hey 97, could pacesetter make one with a 2.5" downpipe piece? That way it would be all ceramic? I couldnt find a place to flare the end of a pipe for me.
Check out my car....
http://members.cardomain.com/o4blackfire
o4Black Fire wrote:Hey 97, could pacesetter make one with a 2.5" downpipe piece? That way it would be all ceramic? I couldnt find a place to flare the end of a pipe for me.
unfortunatly no we dont do any custom work
Am I wrong in beliveing that you want as litte back pressure as possiable when you make boost? I mean on a turbo its a straight pipe to the cat. I would imagne the same rules would apply with a SC. The presuure is just as great pound for pound. not to mention that most SC setups are not intercooled.
so why put bends in front of your exhaust?
"
Kick azz is my boost hero!!! 
"
not necessarily.... with a turbo, exhaust size doesn't really matter (as long as its not too small) because the turbine itself is the biggest restriction in the system. Also, i'd imagine the inertia of the spinning turbine actually creates some vacuum to help pull exhaust from the engine as well (not sure how much, but it makes sense in my head anyway), which contributes to a "pseudo-scavenging" factor.
With a supercharger, there's no turbine there, so keeping the proper sizing for scavenging still has some merit, because all that air is being forced in by the charger, but only being forced out by the piston.
Someone please slap me if i'm wrong i've been up for 24 hours straight now...
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:not necessarily.... with a turbo, exhaust size doesn't really matter (as long as its not too small) because the turbine itself is the biggest restriction in the system. Also, i'd imagine the inertia of the spinning turbine actually creates some vacuum to help pull exhaust from the engine as well (not sure how much, but it makes sense in my head anyway), which contributes to a "pseudo-scavenging" factor.
With a supercharger, there's no turbine there, so keeping the proper sizing for scavenging still has some merit, because all that air is being forced in by the charger, but only being forced out by the piston.
Someone please slap me if i'm wrong i've been up for 24 hours straight now...
Get some sleep man...
With a turbo, the piping size does matter, the bigger the better. You want all the restriction off the turbine wheel you can get. I don't think the turbine wheel really creates any vacuum seeing that it's the exhaust that spins it. If you think about it, how can the wheel "suck" the exhaust out if the exhaust is spinning it to begin with? It doesn't spin on its own.
With the supercharger, scavenging isn't nearly as important as it is on a N/A engine, where you need the velocity of the exhaust leaving the cylinder to speed up the fresh air entering the cylinder. Like you said, you have all that air getting forced in, so you don't need the exhaust velocity to draw in the air. You just have to worry about restrictions on the way out. Ususally 2.5" or 2.75" piping with high flow cat and straight thru resonators/mufflers will take care of this.
_________________________________________
450WHP Turbo Ecotec swap in the works...
Spilner521 wrote:Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:not necessarily.... with a turbo, exhaust size doesn't really matter (as long as its not too small) because the turbine itself is the biggest restriction in the system. Also, i'd imagine the inertia of the spinning turbine actually creates some vacuum to help pull exhaust from the engine as well (not sure how much, but it makes sense in my head anyway), which contributes to a "pseudo-scavenging" factor.
With a supercharger, there's no turbine there, so keeping the proper sizing for scavenging still has some merit, because all that air is being forced in by the charger, but only being forced out by the piston.
Someone please slap me if i'm wrong i've been up for 24 hours straight now...
Get some sleep man...
With a turbo, the piping size does matter, the bigger the better. You want all the restriction off the turbine wheel you can get. I don't think the turbine wheel really creates any vacuum seeing that it's the exhaust that spins it. If you think about it, how can the wheel "suck" the exhaust out if the exhaust is spinning it to begin with? It doesn't spin on its own.
With the supercharger, scavenging isn't nearly as important as it is on a N/A engine, where you need the velocity of the exhaust leaving the cylinder to speed up the fresh air entering the cylinder. Like you said, you have all that air getting forced in, so you don't need the exhaust velocity to draw in the air. You just have to worry about restrictions on the way out. Ususally 2.5" or 2.75" piping with high flow cat and straight thru resonators/mufflers will take care of this.
Thats what Im saying. normaly exhasusts whit those bends are designed for NA cars to provide that, low end power range ( I know its one end of the spectrum). But that all but leaves the building when boost is involved. there is just no reason ( as power is concearned ) to put things in front of you exhuast flow on a boosted engine.
"
Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
