a few people on this site have had nitrous back fires. i think its more with the eco and ld9.
but what rpm and what gear did it happen at? i seem to recall they were down in the low gears and below 3500 rpms. and also what size shot was it?
i planned on getting a direct port kit from my buddy for a few hundred but i came across a wet kit for dirt cheap. im just concerned about a nitrous backfire
So my machinist tells me.....
On the eco intake manifold, or any manifold where fuel can puddle easily, a small shot, you are better off with a dry kit if your fuel delivery is up to par. No issues with fuel puddling, easy to setup.
After that, best to go with a direct port setup. No puddling, easier to tune for what you want, better power potential.
I was dry, and going direct port, someone else can likely tell you more. why not get the wet kit, and upgrade to direct port later?
fuel puddling and nitrous backfiring isn't that much of a problem. On my LD9, I sprayed an entire bottle in the matter of 2 hours and I didn't have a problem. I believe the real issue can come if you bump the limiter while spraying, or bog the system while spraying (what that means, I'm not actually sure). So yes, it is a possibility, but does it happen often? No.
I personally would never spray a dry shot. I can't see using a power adder (nitrous, supercharger, or turbo) without adding fuel as well.
599 - what drect port setup are you using? Or are you piecing your own system together? I am having a little trouble deciding how to run mine.
- ZEX distribution blocks, after that I wanna basically use the NOS pro fogger concept. You?
Scott
When I boost, you boost, we boost
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You have been banned from NEJBODY.
You've displayed wayyy too many acts of pushing people to their limits.
It's never cool to tear people down for what they want to do.
NEJBODY is a team. We're not the same as JBO where everyone bashes on eachother.
I'm surprised you show up to our meets after half of the things you say on here.
I got the NOS plumbing kit, and solenoids. Ordering a tps sensor switch, right now using the msd digital window and wot switch.
damn. id love to see direct port kits installed.
this is as close as I have come so far....
direct port
Scott
When I boost, you boost, we boost
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You have been banned from NEJBODY.
You've displayed wayyy too many acts of pushing people to their limits.
It's never cool to tear people down for what they want to do.
NEJBODY is a team. We're not the same as JBO where everyone bashes on eachother.
I'm surprised you show up to our meets after half of the things you say on here.
jamal, how big of a shot u got? you have a wet kit, how many bottles and shot sizes you been though? any problems?
John H [Cavalierkid wrote:]jamal, how big of a shot u got? you have a wet kit, how many bottles and shot sizes you been though? any problems?
Started with a 50shot once it was installed at my friend Jared's house up in University Place, WA. Went through maybe, 5 bottles of that within a 3day period
.
Came back to Atl for awhile, went back up around Oct 05, upped it to 75 and raced this 14.5 hatch about 4-5 times. Stayed with him (only used 1 bottle)
Right before I left Sea-town for the last time, I got a dyno run in at Intec, only got to fit only 1 balls all run. I figured, put on a 100shot, 94-95oct fuel, if it blows, its getting towed back to Atl anyway where two more 2200's sit.
Ran that and pulled the numbers you see in the sig.
No problems yet, plugs all look fine, no knock, smooth idle, smooth RPM's all the way to redline. This is on a 2200 and a bottle with no heater blanket, so I was in mid bottle psi on every run with the spray. (750-800psi) so in essence I wasn't getting the full hit on different occasions.
I also ran a slightly modified SVT focus (pretty good highway runners stock) and he slightly pulled on me (running 50shot). I then realized I only had 400-550psi of bottle pressure.
But John you should be ok, you've put in some really good parts in your Eco and I'm basically rocking upgraded intake goodies and exhaust goodies (except for header).
N2O + Bolt-ons
= 220Hp/
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thanks for the info jamal. so youve never had a backfire? what plugs and gap you have?
everythign is almost done with my engine. should be ready to swap in within 2 weeks.
yeah its all good parts... but keep in mind. that 75-100 shot is going on top of 18-20psi. with the gm reflash, it pulled enough timing to compinsate that kinda boost on 92 octane and i wont use nitrous unless theres a decent amount of 110 mixed in. im just worried about a backfire.
theres a few locals with wet kits forsale ranging from 250-400. zex ,nx and NOS. zex being the cheap one, but i havent heard anything bad about them
Nope no backfires from the nitrous! I even have my nozzle pointed almost directly into the TB haha. No puddling, weird noises, or anything.
The reason you hear about backfiring in Eco's is because of the design, like said before. Best way you kill that is through a dry shot, or, direct port.
Your best bet through a wet kit to not have a backfire is to spray about 35-50shot. The more you're pouring into the mani, the more chances you have of it settling down in there. I'm sure you don't want to get a custom mani made to prevent this, though it'd improve performance, strength, and prevent any thoughts of puddling. I know most don't care about a different mani because GM went so far on the stock unit.
I'm on Tr6's at .035! All plugs have slight carbon on them which only means i'm running rich i believe. Since I got back here to GA though, they've stayed pretty clean with no carbon build up so I'm wondering if it had anything to do with the gas up there in the NW or what? I dunno!
But it sounds like you're trying to get that cav down into the 10s from the looks of it. Nice slicks, upgraded axles, and strong clutch with what you're doing should warrant those times. An 18-20psi Eco already gets into the mid-high 11's depending on turbo efficency and small other variables.
You should deffinately have a wideband and HpTuners Pro on hand so you can have up to the minute data logging and all that good stuff. It'd suck to do so much work, go on a test run, only to screw something up. If you can see it before or as its happening it'll prevent a disaster! Good luck bro!
N2O + Bolt-ons
= 220Hp/
250Tq
Coming Soon:HpTunersPro, EagleConnectingRods, WiescoPistons, 13sec2200
Quote:
Your best bet through a wet kit to not have a backfire is to spray about 35-50shot. The more you're pouring into the mani, the more chances you have of it settling down in there. I'm sure you don't want to get a custom mani made to prevent this, though it'd improve performance, strength, and prevent any thoughts of puddling. I know most don't care about a different mani because GM went so far on the stock unit.
dry kit isnt an option as i will be running higher fuel pressure on the 370cc injectors. i dont want to put too much of a strain on the fuel injectors with a dry shot on top of it. i might still be able to get a direct port kit from a friend. but the more i research and think about it, im concerned about boost leaks with having it tapped in each runner on the manifold. its not like im talkin 5-8psi.
Quote:
But it sounds like you're trying to get that cav down into the 10s from the looks of it. Nice slicks, upgraded axles, and strong clutch with what you're doing should warrant those times. An 18-20psi Eco already gets into the mid-high 11's depending on turbo efficency and small other variables.
oh that would be nice. but anythign faster then a 11.49 needs a full cage. dont really want to do that. plus i would for sure need a lsd and some weight reduction. hehe im still on stock axles. sun cavi and hahn both made it into the 11s with slicks and stock axles. i dont believe hahn upgraded to drive shop till it got around a 11.5. not 100% sure though. and i dont really know anyone thats broke an axle on an eco for that kinda reason. (maybe slammed cars or constand burnouts around turns)
but im confident that the engine will handle anything ill ever thow at it on the street. i believe the super 16g starts to loose effency around 23psi. so i should be good. and with it not being a crazy huge turbo. lag really isnt there.
Quote:
dry kit isnt an option as i will be running higher fuel pressure on the 370cc injectors. i dont want to put too much of a strain on the fuel injectors with a dry shot on top of it. i might still be able to get a direct port kit from a friend. but the more i research and think about it, im concerned about boost leaks with having it tapped in each runner on the manifold. its not like im talkin 5-8psi.
Yea boost leaks are always a problem in the turbo world. And I gues I can agree with you on the injectors also. You'd have to get bigger injectors deffinately to compensate for both boost and nitrous, then on top of that, have a pretty comprehensive injector controller that would know when to inject the right amount of fuel for boost, then the right amount for nitrous on top of that boost. It'd be like the Greddy Profec B spec II, emanage, nitrous progressive controller, and real time logging via laptop just to keep up with everything and to manage it haha. I'm sure there's an all in 1 product somewhere or maybe one of those I named (Emanage + a nitrous controller), I just haven't researched it yet.
Also, for the DP on the mani, I'd get it professionally tapped at HorsepowerFreaks up there in Portland because they'll seal it off correctly and have everything up to par. If you wanted to go that route and spend that money of course.
Quote:
oh that would be nice. but anythign faster then a 11.49 needs a full cage. dont really want to do that. plus i would for sure need a lsd and some weight reduction. hehe im still on stock axles. sun cavi and hahn both made it into the 11s with slicks and stock axles. i dont believe hahn upgraded to drive shop till it got around a 11.5. not 100% sure though. and i dont really know anyone thats broke an axle on an eco for that kinda reason. (maybe slammed cars or constand burnouts around turns)
but im confident that the engine will handle anything ill ever thow at it on the street. i believe the super 16g starts to loose effency around 23psi. so i should be good. and with it not being a crazy huge turbo. lag really isnt there.
Yea usually 13.99 for helmets and 11.99 for cage, at the tracks I've been to atleast. And you atleast have a good plan and have everything layed out unlike alot of other beginner/intermediate tuners I know. Some just think you slap a turbo kit on and run 11/12s ya know. They don't get that there's MANY other things needed haha.
N2O + Bolt-ons
= 220Hp/
250Tq
Coming Soon:HpTunersPro, EagleConnectingRods, WiescoPistons, 13sec2200
RaGiN Z (the fake 05) wrote:
I personally would never spray a dry shot. I can't see using a power adder (nitrous, supercharger, or turbo) without adding fuel as well.
Scott
Dry N2O kits add fuel just like wet kits do, they just do it in a different way. Get your facts straight before you attempt to give others advice.
The simple fact is, a direct port fuel injection motor's intake manifold in not designed to flow fuel. Due to that fact fuel puddling can occur. For that reason alone i'd recommend a dry kit over a wet kit for any FI car for a 75 shot or less and direct port for bigger shots.
- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.
hey skilz, what kind of nitrous is on yours? care to give details/experiences? kit? shot size? etc.
John H [Cavalierkid wrote:]hey skilz, what kind of nitrous is on yours? care to give details/experiences? kit? shot size? etc.
I don't currently have nitrous on my car, since i went turbo. I don't really have too much advice besides what i have already said, for a 75 shot or smaller i recommend a dry kit over a wet on a fuel injected motor and for a bigger than 75 shot i'd recommend direct port. If you plan on going bigger than a 125 shot id recommend a progressive controller for both drivability and to help the motor deal with such a huge spike in power. Other than that, follow the manufactuers instructions and suggestions according to ignition timing (usually 2 degrees of retard for every 50hp) and colder plugs.
Here are a couple pics of set ups i've had on my car in the past.
Zex dry kit, 50 and 75 shot.
NOS Pro Racer Fogger direct port, 125 shot.
If you have any other questions i'll do my best to answer them.
- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.
Your direct port looked sweet in person.
wow that direct port install is beautiful. how much was all that said and done? were u running a progressive controller? what did u do for timing with a 125 shot? pump fuel?
also, i noticed theres an inline fuel pump up there. any reason you ran it that far from the tank?
damn. i wonder if theres anyway to have an intake manifold flange made for the eco that would adapt the HO manifold.
The full Pro Race fogger kit was about $700 or so if i'm remembering right, not sure if its still the same price, it was a few years ago. I was not using a progressive controller but i should have been. Ignition timing was retarded 6 degrees using MDS dis2, on pump gas. I was using a MSD inline pump, it was mounted on the firewall because it was the easiest spot (lazy me). I never got the results i wanted using the direct port kit, the fuel jets NOS recommended were about 3 sizes too large for the N2O jets they suggested to pair them with among many other things. I ended up going turbo before i ever really finished tuning it.
- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.
I had fuel puddeling one time which oped an intake manifold, not rela bad, car was still drivable and it was waranty so it wasn't a big deal to me at all. The one time it puddled and somethign happened was running a single nozzle 100 Wet shot on an eco. the car ran liek a raped date but after about 5-6 times it said @!#$ you enough is enough. I never had an issue with a 75 though. right now I have 35 wet shot on the hahn stage 2 kit, haven't tried using it yet though. Gonna get the car dyno tuned, I want a safe tune for 93 octane, then run high octane spray it a bit, if all is well I'm gonna bump the shot up and spray the @!#$ @!#$ out of it.
^^ Let us know how the 100shot felt against the Hahn safe tune! Just want to hear a difference in boost over nitrous while in use. Thanks
N2O + Bolt-ons
= 220Hp/
250Tq
Coming Soon:HpTunersPro, EagleConnectingRods, WiescoPistons, 13sec2200
It will be hard to compare, obviously the nitrous is gonna kit alot faster which is decieving comparing it to linear powerband. I'll let you knwo what i think though
