3 days ago i bought my brother's cavy from him. it's a '96, black, 2.2ohv 5speed. i am interested in building it up all-motor, so my question to you guys is what would it take to achieve 150 whp w/ this engine. i know baseline hp is like 115 or so and about 100 to the wheels. i'd rather not touch the block, i don't want to use nitrous or turbocharge it, and swapping in an eco, 2.4, or 3x00 is not an option. i want to build this up n/a. i'm thinking, pulleys, oversized t.b. cai, 4-2-1 header, hiflo cat, 2.5 inch full exhaust, port and polish, portmatch intake manifold and header, portmatch t.b. to intake plenum + whatever else should be needed to reach my goal. so do you guys think it's doable or am i going looney? if i can't reach 150whp i would like to be able to run a 16 flat quarter at least if not faster. i did a weight reduction on it this past weekend and i removed 273 pounds of useless and needless weight, which is a good starting point because the car is now almost 300 pounds lighter
People say that what doesn't kill you in this life
will make you stronger. I'm not sure if that is true
or not, but i do know one thing-You have to learn from
it and it has to make you better.......it has to.......
Shifted wrote:Probably not going to get 150whp out of it without going into the block, or nitrous/turbo.
exactly. huge cam, big ratio rockers and massive springs to go with them, plus all the flow you had planned there might put you at 120-125 to the wheels.
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With a P&P and 1.6:1 roller rockers you should be able to get 16 flat no problem if you're a good driver. I think you should get a P&P, 1.6:1 roller rockers, a slight cam regrind, the put a turbo from a talon @ about 6-7 psi with intercooler. That would give you around 170-180 hp. If you dont want that much, skip the engine work, and just do the turbo, you'll still get around 150-160 hp.
o well i have the same car but in white and i have the intake 4-2-1 header and 2 1/4 exhaust with a high flow cat thrush glass pack and wheels and tires. But anyways i went to high school drags last year and i ran 16.40 was my best pass with a intake,header,2.5" cat that was it. i plan on going to the track within the next couple of weeks but 150HP with out touching the block!!!!*WTF But good luck and how come you wont touch the block???
What did you remove to get almost 300lbs lighter?
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NCR-SCCA
i don't want to touch the block because i know the stock internals will handle 150 whp no problem, plus it's more of a challenge, which is half of the reason why i'm doing this. CAS- to remove 300 lbs (273 actually) i removed all sound deadener material, a/c and everything associated, removed them honeycomb things behind the bumpers, swisscheesed(oldskool mopar trick) the bumpers and all supports, grinded off all that strip caulking, glue, and black square patches found under the carpet, removed the back seats, replaced the front seats w/ the tenzo r racing seats that i had from my last cavy since i already had the tracks fab'ed up plus they weigh almost nothing, gutted the trunk, removed carpeting, spare tire, jack, and cut-out the round hole where the spare goes, replaced the stock rims with these light weight rims that my bro gave me. they are 15's and they weigh 13.7 lbs each(i weighed them) i have no clue what brand they are, i removed the supports inside the door( no too safe lol) no more air bag crap, removed the gas tank because my father hooked me up w/ a fuel cell that weighs almost nothing i just gotta find a place to put it. i'm thinking about that hump where the back seats were lol. that's all i can think of off the top of my head , so put it this way, everything i removed, got weighed and every part i swapped out for a lighter part (seats etc.) i weighed stock and aftermarket and subtracted the difference and the total came to 273 lbs
Justin stockdall-16.40 seems like a pretty good time for that engine and the mods you stated. gives me some hope lol. and i don't want to touch the block because i know the stock guts can handle the task plus i don't want to get too radical w/ this project.
steve white-i've heard about the 1.6:1 rocker swap and i've totally forgotten about it until you brought it up. i'm deffinately gonna look into it in more detail Thanks for all the info, ideas, and suggestions guys much appreciated and i'm open for more because you never know what you can overlook or forget lol
the more i'm thinking about this the more i am sure i can hit high 15's all motor. especially w/ the buttload of weight i took off the car
People say that what doesn't kill you in this life
will make you stronger. I'm not sure if that is true
or not, but i do know one thing-You have to learn from
it and it has to make you better.......it has to.......
nah it's still structurally sound it's not as bad as it sounds so no harm done.i've done this type of thing before so i know what the limits are as to making a car completely unsafe, and no i don't plan to sell the car
People say that what doesn't kill you in this life
will make you stronger. I'm not sure if that is true
or not, but i do know one thing-You have to learn from
it and it has to make you better.......it has to.......
ok if you are gonna take off the head and do some work to it, you might as well go all out.
things to do:
+1mm oversize valves
3 or 5 angle valve job
Wild port and polish ( you should prob have a shop do it and have your head on the flowbench)
1.6 roller rockers
Madjack rocker arm and stud write up
new springs and retainers and valve guides
shave the head to raise compression slightly
MLS head gasket
new cam grind
on top of that you should probably go through your transmission and i got another list of do's on that one, hopefully that helped!
damn no edit button, guess i gotta go premi again!
Make sure you get HPTuners, so that you can get the most out of all the mods that you did!
Luis Marroquin wrote:damn no edit button, guess i gotta go premi again!
Make sure you get HPTuners, so that you can get the most out of all the mods that you did!
No HPT for 1996 without an ECU swap... Either ECU swap or EPROM (chip)
Wow, if you removed ~300lbs from a base 1996, you should be closing in on 2200-2300lbs...that's insanely light. I think a toyota yaris weighs in at like 2200lbs. Isn's there some generalization out there for weight reduction, like dropping 100lbs is like adding 10hp and 0.2 seconds faster ET? I know you said no eco swap, but it would be sweet on such a light car - you already well into weight reduction, so an all aluminum powerplant would save a little more, plus you are adding ~30hp right off the bat.
oldskool wrote:
No HPT for 1996 without an ECU swap... Either ECU swap or EPROM (chip)
no chipping the 96 either. swappage is really the only option besides standalone.
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Luis Marroquin wrote:ok if you are gonna take off the head and do some work to it, you might as well go all out.
things to do:
+1mm oversize valves
3 or 5 angle valve job
Wild port and polish ( you should prob have a shop do it and have your head on the flowbench)
1.6 roller rockers Madjack rocker arm and stud write up
new springs and retainers and valve guides
shave the head to raise compression slightly
MLS head gasket
new cam grind
on top of that you should probably go through your transmission and i got another list of do's on that one, hopefully that helped!
Just out of curiosity, what do you think the price tag for that would be?
Infantry!!!
Darren-thats a good question, i wonder myself how much all that would come to. i've never paid to have any headwork done because i've always did my own port and polishng/portmatching although i've never really messed w/ oversized valves and things of such because i'm not quite that gutsy yet lol. i would guess for a half-respectable machine shop for a port/polish/portmatch, oversized valves, 3-5 angle valve job and a head shave would cost around 800-1200 dollars. but that is just a guess. i'm probably way off
People say that what doesn't kill you in this life
will make you stronger. I'm not sure if that is true
or not, but i do know one thing-You have to learn from
it and it has to make you better.......it has to.......
no your about right on the price tag i would bet more around 1,000 to 1,500!!
and a thousand dollars later you still have a 2200.
1000 bucks and and some wrenching you coulld have a v6.
and the hp will start well above what your thousand dollars would have gotten you in the 2200.
Or even an echo would be a good choice if your afraid of the v6 swap.
01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e
well i'm looking for a challenge. besides, i could do the v6 swap with my eyes closed, so where's the challenge in that? besides, the 2.2 ohv is far more reliable, regardless of what others say. i had a pontiac w/ a 3400 engine in it and i thought the motor sucked. so it had a few extra horses, so what
People say that what doesn't kill you in this life
will make you stronger. I'm not sure if that is true
or not, but i do know one thing-You have to learn from
it and it has to make you better.......it has to.......
strohlly7 wrote:well i'm looking for a challenge. besides, i could do the v6 swap with my eyes closed, so where's the challenge in that? besides, the 2.2 ohv is far more reliable, regardless of what others say. i had a pontiac w/ a 3400 engine in it and i thought the motor sucked. so it had a few extra horses, so what
Getting the engine itself in is the easy part. The hard part is when it comes down to wiring and tuning it to work properly. But then you're looking at around 180whp and 200+wtq or so on an otherwise stock engine.
The 3400 when mated to the automatic tranny isn't that great. The trans seems to like to suck up a lot of that power. Once you get it popped onto a 5spd it gets faster, then consider it being in a J-body which is lighter then it gets more faster. Consider you've taken 300 lbs off the car you'll probably notice more gain. Then the "challenge" is launching the car from a stop and keeping it off the rev limiter in 1st gear, and fighting for traction with the gobs of torque that you'll have.
And then you can do a cam, head swaps, turbo's (and be able to withstand a bit of boost) and all kinda goodies that you'll have to custom fabricate things to make fit and function in your car properly.
BTW - I got 15.8 on my 2.2 with all the fixins on it. This was in the day before HPTuners though so I didn't have a way of tuning.
strohlly7 wrote:well i'm looking for a challenge. besides, i could do the v6 swap with my eyes closed, so where's the challenge in that? besides, the 2.2 ohv is far more reliable, regardless of what others say. i had a pontiac w/ a 3400 engine in it and i thought the motor sucked. so it had a few extra horses, so what
if you can do this with your eyes closed, then do it...your retarded if you hold yourself back for "more of a challenge" when in the end,your still gonna have a crappy 2.2...oh wait a crappy 2.2 with some head work.
and the "few extra horses" gimmie a break..bite the bullet,swollow your pride and be smart...
i tell you what i have done some @!#$ the 2.2 and wish i would have just saved up and did the 3800 swap instead of even sinking any money into the 2.2 its a little bit of fun from 1 to 2nd and after that nothing. its a good stoplight to stoplight with full exhaust and intake tires and if you have 300 lbs gone some for fun but really not worth it
