QUCIK QUESTIONS, for any one who did this already i will replacing the head on my cav soon, any helpfull hints or tips and things i should watch for, , and how long do you think it will take,

between 10-20hours to replace it. use a Felpro head gasket. Buy new head bolts or ARP head studs.



Gilles
2.3 Ho

what is the hardest part, i undersatnd the timing chaines can be a bit trickky

The timming chain is not that bad. Unbolting and bolting the cover for the timming chain was more of a PITA on mine. The other thing was to try not to spill coolant and oil everywhere when I took the head off.



Gilles
2.3 Ho

if you havent already done it maybe you should look in to a HO. quad head from a GTZ beretta...

well i already have a head for my car 2angel pnp, basically for free, so i wan that done, are the bolts really needed or just cause we in ther might aswell replace, ???

still wouldve gone with the HO head



"Freedom 'ought to have its limits"-George W. Bush may 31 1999 (who voted for this idiot?)

scott i have been trying to find your email , man well i am getting a 2.3 h.o. to rebuild with the 086 head though, i just bought a cav from a guy in my area a 95, auto i know, but he had a head already pnp for me he just throw in, i was wondering, scott do you knw where i can get me 2.3 h.o. strocked out with the 2.4 cranck, and how much???

and this is a question for you al but scot and gills of you have answered alomost ever 2.3 h.o. related question i have ever had, when iget the block, i want to bore it it prob to 0.040 but i was thinking would that weaken the block and should i be dropping in sleaves if so what make ans thicknees, and what whoul i have to bore out to, andwit the sleave what would my final displacment be

from what ive heard a quad can stand up to a .040 overbore like you said ..i personally have a .030 but from what i understand anything over 040 gets a bit dangerous...maybe gilles can elaberate..as far as the stroker it requires some machine work on the block and some work on the crank as well..theres a few guys ive talked to that say they are having local shops do it for them but i personally wouldnt trust a "local shop" with something like this...also, while this isnt needed i recommend forged internals with this setup which is gonna run your price up a bit but you get the strength and reliability you need.



"Freedom 'ought to have its limits"-George W. Bush may 31 1999 (who voted for this idiot?)

i am willing to wait longer to finsh but do it right once also the 2.3 l.o. is there anything i can do although it is an auto to pep it up a bit, i am goign to change the head soon, when i got the car it had a wai and my hoob is the ram air stlye. but it actully allows air into , so i was think of runnind some piping, from the hood to force all the air stright into the cone, but i am a bit worries about when i am idealing what you think,

i tried that..running pipe to get more use from my ram air hood..more power to you if you can pull it off cus i gave up LOL



"Freedom 'ought to have its limits"-George W. Bush may 31 1999 (who voted for this idiot?)

well i dont know if all ram air hoods are the same, but mine, on the underneath there was a chennel where the air went and got boxed, and that box part was a perfect shape foe the top of teh stock air pox on my 2.2 but with the 95 i just picked up the the wai, the coon just sits there i am think of using the large thin ruber hose, clipping it to the botom of the hood and surrong the cone with it i will try and post some pics

the 2.3 block can take .040" over no problem. Sorry for the late post, I was out of post.



Gilles
2.3 Ho

would you suggest bore out and sleaves or no sleave, remeber this would for the turbo engine

dont NEED the sleeves



"Freedom 'ought to have its limits"-George W. Bush may 31 1999 (who voted for this idiot?)

You don't need sleeve. Even if you would like to put on it, you almost can't unless you go stock size. I've check for a .060 over bore with sleeve and the sleeve are too thick. Even the thinner ones. The thing is, you go .040 over for the piston but with the sleeve, the cylinder will probably be over by .070 .080 witch is way too much.

At .040 with the turbo, you'll need ALOT more power than what you aim for. I'm running 9.63:1 compression with 10psi and I run on cast pistons. Forged is not needed if you don't have any detonation. If you aim for 600hp then I would go with forged.



Gilles
2.3 Ho

wiil yha i am aming up there basically i bought my self i nice pretty littl car to drive around right now my 2.3 atuo just going to do the interior and littl preformane mods, the tranny is just cause i am going crazt driving an auto, i find myself, gear the auto when slowing down sometimes, i know i should not be doing, but for my project cavi i have got the 2.3 h.o. out on a beach right now, i want to know what i would have to do to get 600hp, i meant interms of interlanals, what turbo, what emanagesystem is good, i am taking my time with that one, i want to do it right the first time, may be i should post a challange, for the best 2.3 ho.o storker, set up and see who can come up with the bset set up , fully detailed ingine, what you guys think ???




from talking to you guys and other guys up on other sites this is what i put togthers, critice would be appriciated

Sealed Power hyperuetectic pistons (+.040")
Sealed Power piston rings
Block bored +.040"
ARP rod bolts
Ported and polished H.O. '086' head
Mantapart '95 H.O. spec cams
Mantapart performance lifters
Mantapart lightened flywheel
ACT heavy-duty, high performance clutch
3.5" exhaust from firewall to front of driver's side rear wheel
Dynamax 3.5" Bullet mufflers (2)
H.O. Intake manifold (
RKSport upper motor mount insert
Fast Fwd Performance Billet Dogbone (lower engine mount) w/ polyurethane inserts
Ballistic Concepts (Garrett) TA3405 hybrid turbocharger: T04E 57 trim .60 A/R compressor side 63 A/R stage 3 turbine side
Custom turbo exhaust manifold w/ 3" downpipe out of turbo
Custom made charge piping powdercoated gunmetal
Hybrid Development intercooler (24"x12"x3" core)
TiAL 50mm, 360* blow off valve
TiAL 35mm external wastegate with .45 BAR (6.5 psi) spring
Greddy PRofec E-01 electronic boost controller (Lo boost: 9 psi, Hi boost: 16psi)
GM 2 bar MAP sensor
Delco FR1LS spark plugs
'90 fuel pressure regulator with pressure gauge port
Holley (Walbro) 255 L/hr in-tank fuel pump
RC Engineering 550cc/min (52lb/hr) fuel injectors
AEM Tru-Power alternator pulley
Unorthodox Racing underdrive crank pulley (14oz.)
Electromotive TEC 3 Engine Management System
Accel 8mm spark plug wires (made to length) would be nice
Water/Alcohol Injection System (activates at 5psi) (some dued told me about this i throw it on my list but i dont really get it wondering if yo ucan explain it ???
PLX Devices wideband O2 sensor controller with display

that stuff has chrome or stuff next to it cause it was like a ideal list kinda thing i hade myself,

Sealed Power hyperuetectic pistons (+.040") - That's what I run

Sealed Power piston rings - I run that too. Be carefull when you break in the engine

Block bored +.040" - good enough too

ARP rod bolts - Why only the bolts? Get the whole rod.

Ported and polished H.O. '086' head - Good but be carefull

Mantapart '95 H.O. spec cams - Don't get the cams from Mantapart. Pricey and not reliable. Just get a set of regurlar Ho cams. Can be found at www.the-race-shop.com

Mantapart performance lifters - Nothing else than regurlar lifter. Once again, don't buy from Mantapart.

Mantapart lightened flywheel - Go fidenza. No Mantapart

ACT heavy-duty, high performance clutch - Good but I'm a Centerforce guy

3.5" exhaust from firewall to front of driver's side rear wheel - Don't go over 3". I run 2.5" and found out my turbo like better 2.5". My turbo spool faster with a complete 2.5" mendrel bend exhaust than open down pipe.

Dynamax 3.5" Bullet mufflers (2) - Annoying after a while and not really good sound from them.

H.O. Intake manifold - Get it Extrude Hone. Check www.bstuff.com in the Quad 4 section for a possible group buy and the web site.

RKSport upper motor mount insert - Go with SummitRacing upper mount insert. Cheaper by 5$ compared to carcustoms and shipping is free inside the US.

Fast Fwd Performance Billet Dogbone (lower engine mount) w/ polyurethane inserts - Good

Ballistic Concepts (Garrett) TA3405 hybrid turbocharger: T04E 57 trim .60 A/R compressor side 63 A/R stage 3 turbine side - Too big. Go with a T3/T04E. Otherwise you'll be spooling at 5000rpm.

Custom turbo exhaust manifold w/ 3" downpipe out of turbo - Good, be sure to use a turbo HEADER. Not a log style cause the Ho flow too much for a log style. I know, mine was falling on it's face after 5000rpm.

Custom made charge piping powdercoated gunmetal - good

Hybrid Development intercooler (24"x12"x3" core) - Good

TiAL 50mm, 360* blow off valve - Good

TiAL 35mm external wastegate with .45 BAR (6.5 psi) spring - Good

Greddy PRofec E-01 electronic boost controller (Lo boost: 9 psi, Hi boost: 16psi) - Good

GM 2 bar MAP sensor - If you run that on the unmodify Eprom, you'll blow your engine. Run a 1BAR MAP if you use the OEM Ecm. Use a check valve or find somebody that can burn an Eprom that can read boost. BTW, the 2BAR can only support 14.5Psi.

Delco FR1LS spark plugs - ???

'90 fuel pressure regulator with pressure gauge port - Good enough

Holley (Walbro) 255 L/hr in-tank fuel pump - A must

RC Engineering 550cc/min (52lb/hr) fuel injectors - good

AEM Tru-Power alternator pulley - Don't even bother. Not enough of a difference for the price. Just bring the boost 1 psi

Unorthodox Racing underdrive crank pulley (14oz.) - Pricey

Electromotive TEC 3 Engine Management System - Good but alot of headache and it will take alot of tuning

Accel 8mm spark plug wires (made to length) would be nice - Yep, a good thing with the TEC 3

Water/Alcohol Injection System (activates at 5psi) (some dued told me about this i throw it on my list but i dont really get it wondering if yo ucan explain it ??? - It shoot Water/Alcohol into the charge pipe and cool down the air so less chance of detonation, more power and act like an octane booster.

PLX Devices wideband O2 sensor controller with display - I like better the LM-1.

It's a good list. I hope you have a good job cause you'll need $$$$




Gilles
2.3 Ho

hehehe 2 very important things mentioned there.....1 dont order from mantapart and 2 i hope you have a good job



"Freedom 'ought to have its limits"-George W. Bush may 31 1999 (who voted for this idiot?)

If you want to make 600hp, go with solid lifter. You'll need stronger valves springs first so get a set of solid lifter. I'll check with TRS and Gmpartsdirect cause I want a set.


The OEM lifter are good up to 8000rpm and since you go turbo, you won't go that high.


Gilles
2.3 Ho

Couple things I would change...... but thats just me....

Quote:

ACT heavy-duty, high performance clutch - Good but I'm a Centerforce guy

never liked Centerforce..... I'm a Spec guy. (have one for the W41 drag car and my 2.4 street car + their Aluminum flywheels)

Quote:


3.5" exhaust from firewall to front of driver's side rear wheel - Don't go over 3". I run 2.5" and found out my turbo like better 2.5". My turbo spool faster with a complete 2.5" mendrel bend exhaust than open down pipe.

I've never heard of any turbo that likes back pressure........ my turbo spools alot faster open dump then it does with my 2.5"

Quote:

Custom turbo exhaust manifold w/ 3" downpipe out of turbo - Good, be sure to use a turbo HEADER. Not a log style cause the Ho flow too much for a log style. I know, mine was falling on it's face after 5000rpm.

I've got a log manifold on my W41, and its fine...... doesnt 'fall on its face' all the way to redline (although my redline is only 6500 right now)

Quote:


RKSport upper motor mount insert - Go with SummitRacing upper mount insert. Cheaper by 5$ compared to carcustoms and shipping is free inside the US.

Even after the $8 handling fee? Best bet is to go with the Upper/Lower package from CarCustoms..... plus you get it 5 mins after you place your order...... (well, it seems that way at least)

For the stroker, your going to need some custom pistons...... wiseco, JE........ I'd also throw a set of Total seal rings on them, why not right? Get a set of 2.4 Eagle rods. Then you will need to pick up a 2.4 crank. Send it down to the machine shop, and have them micro polish the jurnals, champher the oil holes, and knife edge it. Have them Align bore the mains in the block to match the 2.4 main jurnals. When you get it back, remove the stock 2.4 oil drive gear, and install a 2.3 drive gear (put the 2.3 one in the oven, 500* for 10mins, slips on the crank like butter), then, if it where mine, I'd send it out to get cryotreated.

Pick up a set of Clevite 77 main and rod bearings, ARP main and head studs......... and order a Cometic .074" 2.4 Head Gasket....... I lined it up with my Felpro 2.3 gasket, and it looks like it should work w/o much modifacation...... When I get my Quad 4 stroker buttoned up, I'll be using one.

Last but not least, figure out what to do about the crank position sensor...... I have yet to decide how I'm going to tackel that........

its late, but thats what I have floating around in my head........ I have 3 2.4's getting built up right now, and after their done, I'm going to try and tackel the Quad 4 stroker......





SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

ok now if i was going for the 600hp you suggested what lifters and springs wopuld you suggest ???

Quote:

Ported and polished H.O. '086' head - Good but be carefull

why ??? pls expaine

Quote:

'90 fuel pressure regulator with pressure gauge port - Good enough

what would b better

Quote:

Electromotive TEC 3 Engine Management System - Good but alot of headache and it will take alot of tuning

what would you go with then ???

Quote:

I'd send it out to get cryotreated.

can i get an explaination, and benifts, how much ???

Quote:

Gmpartsdirect

last question if you are a gm employee, any one if you can get these stuff cheaper ?? cuse i know a few ppl who work for gm ust i thought and if so how much of this stuff can i get from them ???

save time and money and get it done right the first time, get ahold of Josh at TRS through the quad4forums. it takes experience to get the quad stroked and not make a mistake. Josh has a quad experienced machinist.

As for the reluctor ring on the crank, weld the mismatched slot shut and machine out a new one, problem solved.

Josh will have the BEST price for the stroker, and will set it up for your application (boost, N/A) and provides the BEST product for your application, or offers you the best as a good upgrade when the better stuff will do.

He's also (slowly) working on a true header for our motors (the 2.3L in a 3rd gen J body), he's got a header for the N bodies and the second gen J's, since they are the same header or VERY close.

Brian - I don't know why but mine didn't flow good enough past 5k. You could feel it alot. As for the 2.5" exhaust, it was just spooling a bit faster. (200 rpm faster) I had no cat so there was not much restriction there. Plus the diesel engine that had it (Mercedez) had a 2.5" exhaust.

There's a 8$ handling fee but chance are that you'll get a certifacate good for a certain amount witch will cover the 8$. Another thing is that I had problem with Karo. He's a good guy but some sh** happend and I'd like better paying 2-3$ more on a company that I trust.

Paki - The "HD"lifter that mantapart sell are BS like the company selling them. I hate mantapart and I'm not the only one. Tim know alot but all he want is $$$. Ask Josh at TRS. They have a 650hp 2.3. He'll tell you what to use.

The 086 doesn't need to be port on the intake side. If you do, not much can be taken off cause the wall are already thin and porting them WILL cause trouble if they take out too much. Only the exhaust side need to be port. Keep that head cool cause you'll blow it.

The fuel rail is fine.

My friend has a TEC3 for is supercharge W41 and he got alot of tuning and dyno time to do. You can get 600hp from a W41 ecm, ignition box and fuel injectors controller for cheaper than a TEC3

Like I told you in the email I sent you, the stroker is worthless IMO when you go with boost. Stock for stock you have only 30hp more than the Ho engine. It will cost you alot of money for no reason. It will only give you some weird look when you'll say that you have a 2.5l quad 4. 30hp is about 2.5psi in most case. Take the money you would spend on the stroker and build a strong 2.3 Ho and boost it.





Gilles
2.3 Ho