what exactly IS spring rate and what are good spring rates. currently im looking at the megan racing springs with a 2" drop front and 1.9" rear. the spring rates are 335 front and 250 rear....
what does this mean?
is this good?
that's way too much... sping rate is a force that gets absorbed by your struts.. the higher it is the more harsh and bouncy your ride gets.
It's not "way too much". It is high, but they suit a particular purpose. The spring rate is how strong the spring is. For those it takes 325 pounds of force to move the spring 1 inch (650# for 2", 975# for 3", and so on).
The strut has to be able to control the spring, and the strong the spring the strong the strut must be to control it. Every strut has a point at which it can no longer control the spring. AGXs are like 300 front and 250 rear (or something close to that, don't quote me). Koni's are some amazingly high numbers, like 1000 or something like that. Hence they can take just about anything sensable.
So if you put those springs on AGXs, the struts would not be able to fully control the spring, and you end up bouncing. If you put them on Konis or D-Specs the strut will be able to contorl them, and you will not bounce (some tuning may be necessary).
Other struts like GR2s or HPs have lower tollerances yet; like 250/225. Stock springs are like 200/175 if I remember correctly.
I'm probably wrong on many of these numbers, but it's close enough that you get the idea. Many of the rates are posted around here, but it would take a lot of searching to dig them up.
To answer your original question, Megan springs are OK. They're known to sag some. The sprign rates are a bit high for that drop, but not crazy like DZ or Bomz. With a set of Konis or D-Specs you'd have a decent ride. It would be more harsh than it has to be, but not terrible.
Note that most lowering springs do not have a set rate. They'll sometimes list an effective rate but that's entirely different.
Most lowering springs for our cars are progressive rate springs, which means that the rate increases as the spring compresses.
Just a little FYI.
And higher rated springs do not mean more bounce, so long as you've got proper struts with them as C.T.S mentioned.
Anybody know the Sprint spring rates? I've tried contacting them and nothing yet. I've been told different answers, one told em they're as high as something nuts like 400 front 300 rear, and I've been told lower rates like in the 300-350 range front and 225ish rear.
The 350/225 sounds familiar. I can't remember the exact numbers but they're a touch high for the drop. There's better options out there, but they'll work if you put them on Konis or D-Specs.
ok so what would be the best spring according to the spring rates for agx's?
thanks to everyone for their input.
so what are some of the springs with the lowest spring rate ... other than pro kit ...
Lowest Rate: Stock. Followed by SusTechs and H-Techs (just about the same), then you get into the ProKit, B+Gs, H&Rs, SportsLines & Goldlines, and the list goes on.
AGXs: ProKits are the highest spring rates that are with-in the "safe" zone of AGXs. B+Gs and H&Rs are right on the borderline. I don't recommend pushing your luck with the borderline stuff, but I admit I'm guilty myself.
Note on ProKits: Eibach did it's homework when it made the ProKit springs for 3rd Gen J-Bodies. They always do, that's why they have such a good name, and why they cost a bit more than others. The ProKit is an ideal drop for spirited handling and daily driving. It's meant for the spirited driver in the every-man. The spring rate is exactly matched to the drop, not higher than it has to be, and not so low that you have problems with bottoming out. This is not to downplay the research that went into other companies springs, but the ProKit was mean to be the solutions to "I'm Joe Blow; I want to lower my car, get better handling, not think about it too much, and have it just work".
Sportslines were meant for "I'm Joe Blow; I want that slammed look without the cost of coils, not think about it too much, and have it just work".
B+G did it's research too, but wanted to fill the "I'm an agressive driver and I am willing to comprimise just a bit more comfort, to get slightly better handling than Joe Blow".
H&R was more along the lines of "I'm an agressive driver too, but I want to level out the car just a bit, give me handling and looks, toss comfort."
Goldlines are mean to copy sportslines, but with a slightly cheaper price. The designer was originally from Eibach, so I've been told.
Most of the others (Intrax, Dropzone, Bomz, Meagan, Sprint, Apex, Fastco, Progress) wanted one of two things. A "generic" spring that will fit many cars, thus lowering price, while throwing application-engineering out the window. OR We'll just copy what someone else is doing close enough that most people won't notice the difference anyway. These aren't necessarily "bad" bad, but they might be bad for you. And generally there's a better alternative out there.
C.T.S wrote:Most of the others (Intrax, Dropzone, Bomz, Meagan, Sprint, Apex, Fastco, Progress) wanted one of two things. A "generic" spring that will fit many cars, thus lowering price, while throwing application-engineering out the window. OR We'll just copy what someone else is doing close enough that most people won't notice the difference anyway. These aren't necessarily "bad" bad, but they might be bad for you. And generally there's a better alternative out there.
I'll agree that there are other springs that are better than Sprint, but I wouldn't put them in the same class as Dropzone or Fastco, or any eBay mainstay for that matter. I've made the same newbie mistake of buying Dropzone when I didn't know better, and I've had Eibach on every car I've owned at one point or another. I'll be the first to say Eibach is the top brand out there for our cars, but I'd still recommend Sprint as a decent alternative.
CTS, this isn't meant to disrespect you, you've helped me out and kept me from making some bad decisions, this is just the opinion I've formed from my personal experiences.
Yeah. I figured people would disagree at least slightly with my analysis. So STFU! Just kidding! I welcome constructive criticism.
I lumped Sprint in with the others just because I don't see a good reason to buy them. Generally speaking there are better alternatives to them. Of course those alternatives cost more, so I do understand why they sell.
No harm done. I got the Sprints because the guy that had originally bought them was selling them dirt cheap and they hadn't been installed yet. Personally, I tend not to make a habit of buying products I've never heard anything about but I took the risk and haven't regretted it so far. Actually I'm quite pleased with the results. Not as good as Eibach, nowhere near as good as Tein, but for those who need a good alternative, still worth every penny.
do you have any pics of your drop? in2johnnyi have dropzone
and i really want a better setup, but i cant afford someting like ground controls and koni's
what are tein h-techs spring rates?
wait i was just reading about sus tech and their spring rates are only increased by 10 to 15 percent over stock so would stock struts handle these???????????
Suspension techniques are 195/115 iirc from an email they sent me. H-techs are listed as 180/110 on their website. I've got the sus tech springs on new Gabriel Ultra struts and they don't bounce so they must be controlling the springs alright. Overall I'd say the ride is good. Ideally I'd say an adjustable strut like the agx or konis is the way to go, but the Gabriels were like just under $200 with rebate and the sus tech spring rates are pretty low. I'm guessing you have an 05 cav so the stock struts will probably last a while, and even that has a lot to do with the roads you drive on and how you drive even with stock springs. I do the labor myself and the guy who does my alignments only charges $35 so if they blow after a year or two I'm only out a measly $200 , and if they last then thats even better.
ok does that mean that tein h-techs woudl actually be BETTER on stock struts than stock springs because the spring rates are 180/110 and stock is 220/175? i dont know much but thats what it seems like......
Whoa, didn't know stock springs had spring rate higher than my lowering springs, haha.
you have OEM replacement struts mike crawford so....how do you like the ride?
/\ /\ Its good with suspension techniques springs. Those or H-techs are the only ones I'd try it with cuz of the spring rates. Anything else and I don't think they could handle the rebound of the spring.
jWagg wrote:do you have any pics of your drop? in2johnnyi have dropzone and i really want a better setup, but i cant afford someting like ground controls and koni's
Yeah. I've got them on my JBOI profile. I'm at work right now, I'll load the pics onto this site and post them for you.
Here you go. THis is the best picture I have that gets a shot of the ride height.
Ok friends. I have a some facts and two questions.
Ok the facts are, according to my experience and the comments of many people here, a 1.5" is the optimal drop for the stock suspension but matched with better shocks or tuned shocks like Koni Red or Yellow, Tokico D-Specs or KYB AGXS's. Going lower to will induce bump steer and other problems that is critical for cornering and you will need a matched by travel, suspension, like shorter shocks, other arms, etc..... Then Is well know that the spring rate have an special influence in the car balance and weight transfer. That is why is so hard to choose a sporty street tuned suspension, because you can't go so hard for the street or so soft for the track days.
I have H&R springs, these tends to be a little harder that Eibach prokit with a lowering factor right at the edge of 1.5", those are 1.6" F and 1.4" R, with no sag at all after almost three years of use. These are really good springs. And the H&Rs are matched with Koni Red at middle position that seems to me to be a quite good match.
Then my questions are, according to H&R, Sport Springs are like 20-30% harder that oem springs (200/175 according to C.T.S.), so that will be like 260/228 F&R for H&Rs. Is this info right? anyone have this info? And about the Koni's, what about the rates of the Koni Reds at soft, middle and full hard positions?
Thanks,
___________________________
MAKING MY DREAMS A REALITY
Visit my cardomain site !!!
ELIOT. Now.....boosted.
Huh? The spring rate is the amount of force it takes to compress the spring, usually expressed in lbs/inch or Newtons/meter. Example- a 350lb/in spring requires 350 lbs of load to compress the spring 1 inch, 700lbs for 2 inches, etc, etc.
