Hey guys,

I just purchased a 1990 Sunbird GT with the 2.0L turbo and a 5 speed tranny.

Engine seems to be in great shape despite the milage (195,000 km's), and there are no oil leaks or blow by on the stock boost setting on that tiny turbo.

I was wondering, what are some good upgrades for these cars? Any good bolt on turbos, and do they use the standard T3 flange?

I have a couple Daytona Shelby's that I've upgraded, one for drag racing, and one for a daily driver.

My plan is to install a mandrel exhaust, straightpipe (help spool up), install intake (done... was super easy, gotta love K&N cone filters), mount an intercooler up front, and get a BOV to make sure there is no compressor surge...

It has pretty good power, has new clutch, brakes, etc, etc, and was very well maintained mechanically. What are the options for retuning, do these ECU's use Eproms? Or is there anyone that makes cals? I have an Eprom burner and eraser, could easily install a new chip if someone knows of a good programmer or program to use to write new chips.

What about options for turbo upgrades?

Thanks!

This might help, but I'm not a 2.0 guy, so I don't know-

Quote:

2.0 FAQ

by: Mr. Efficiency (Tyrin) and Labora

First the basics:
The 2.0 8 valve SOHC made in Brazil was first introduced in the sunbird, and only the sunbird, when the J platform was first introduced in 1982, and later in 84 a turbo version was introduced that was only available in the Sunbird GT that had a water cooled t-25 turbo that produced 9 pounds of boost but it only lasted until 1990 due to many mechanical flaws and its unreliability, which isn’t so bad if you take care of it properly. The 2.0 and 2.0 turbo better known as the LT3 both went through many changes year to year mostly dealing with oil journals size, and a bunch of different cams, from 84 until 91. In 1982 they were carbureted and later in 83 changed to throttle body injection (TBI) there were two kinds of throttle bodies for this engine from 83 - 86 they had a model 300 throttle body and then from 87 – 90 they had the model 700. Then they were switched over to multi port fuel injection (MPFI) in 1991 and with that change they removed the distributor and had coil packs used instead. Then in 95 when the Sunbird was killed the engine went off the J platform with the car, but is still produced as a DOHC version in Daewoo's. The block is cast iron and has nodular cast iron crankshaft and connecting rods, the turbocharger is a T25 water that provides 9 pounds of boost. And the engine is equipped with a knock sensor that protects the engine from detonation on regular or premium fuel, though premium is preferred and highly recommended for performance use. The car can go 0-60 in 7.2 seconds and does 15.40s in the 1/4 mile @ 91 mph.


Specs:

2.0 TBI NA (VIN K):
HP: 90-102 (heard many variations, I prefer to say 102 cause its highest)@5200 RPM
TQ: 130 @ 2800 RPM
Compression ratio: 8.8:1
Bore x Stroke: 3.38 x 3.38
Firing order: 1342
Intake valve size: 1.69"
Exhaust valve size: 1.44"
Cam: elevation = intake – exhaust: 0.2409 – 0.2409 for 1989
0.2366 – 0.2515 for 1990 – 1991

2.0 MPFI NA (VIN H):
HP: 111@5200 RPM
TQ: 125@3600 RPM
Compression ratio: 9.2:1
Bore x Stroke: 3.38 x 3.38
Firing order: 1342
Intake valve size: 1.69"
Exhaust valve size: 1.44"
Cam: elevation = intake – exhaust: 0.2626 – 0.2626 for 1992 – 1994

2.0 Turbo (VIN M) (engine code: C20GET):
HP: 165@5600 RPM
TQ: 160@2800 RPM
Compression ratio: 8.0:1
Bore x Stroke: 3.38 x 3.38
Firing order: 1342
Intake valve size: 1.69"
Exhaust valve size: 1.44"
Cam: elevation = intake – exhaust: 0.2409 – 0.2409 for 1989
0.2625 – 0.2625 for 1990

2.0 to 2.0 turbo:
This is probably the most often asked question ever when it comes to the 2.0 and so I guess it
makes since to put it on here
To change from a 2.0 to a 2.0 turbo is a lot of work and the easiest way to do it is just to swap
the motors over, cause the only things the two engines share are the block, crankshaft and the
connecting rods. But if for whatever reason you decide to keep your block in your car you need
to swap pistons cause the turbo pistons are forged and the 2.0 NA's are not, you need the turbo
head cause of the compression ratio change, (8.8:1 NA - 8.0:1 turbo) for those of you who think
its stupid to lower compression and gain power with a turbo.....trust me it works. You will also
need all the wiring, ECM, throttle cable, oil pan, intake, exhaust, turbo, down pipe, fuel pump
(unless your car was originally MPFI then its better than the turbo pump) and basically
everything attached to the head except the block, get a turbo head gasket when you get a new
one, obviously, lol and all the air box crap too if you wanna go stock. Transmission change is
also a good idea if it’s a 5 speed, see the "Transmission" section.

Transmission:
The best transmission is obvious for the 2.0, first off a 5 speed is always the way to go they are lighter and you don't lose about 30-35 percent of your power like an automatic and only around 10 percent through a 5spd, and that varies between clutches, so you can easily bring that percent down a little more. But the 5spds are hard to locate so if you have the auto transmission It shouldn’t be to bad unlike the 5spd you won't have to lift the throttle while the transmission shifts allowing the boost to not drop much and just like the 5spd you can always build up the auto with a stall or shift kit etc.

The 2.0 NA comes with an Izuzu trans which isn't very strong but some people have managed to run a "stock" 2.0 turbo on that trans with no problems. But once you start putting down some serious power it won't stand up to it, the Getrag 5 speed trans that comes in the 2.0 turbo is much stronger and can take 300 plus horse power, so there is not to much to worry about with that trans unless you start getting really serious, but a lot of people on the org have made it into the 13's on that trans so I think its the best you can get with out going out and having a hole trans completely rebuilt with all custom gears and everything, but that'll run you up around ten
to twenty thousand dollars or more, that may be a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the point. When you swap over the Getrag trans the drive shafts must be swapped to cause they are also stronger than the ones from the Izuzu trans.

Gear ratios:
HM-282 – Getrag 5 speed (RPO:MG2)
1st - 3.50
2nd - 2.05
3rd - 1.38
4th - 0.94
5th - 0.72
Final Drive Ratio - 3.61:1

TH125C (3T40) - 3 Speed Automatic (RPO: MD9)
1st - 2.84
2nd - 1.6
3rd - 1.0
Reverse - 2.067
Final Drive Ratio - 3.18

Isuzu 5 Speed Manual (RPO: MK7)
1st - 3.91
2nd - 2.18
3rd - 1.45
4th - 1.03
5th - 0.74

Isuzu 4 Speed Manual (RPO: M73) (1.8 trans)
1st - 4.01
2nd - 2.25
3rd - 1.40
4th - 1.00

Mods:
Here is a list of some mods you could do to your 2.0 turbo or NA to get a little more power out of it some of them are a little easier than others and some are just a lot of work, or a little harder to do.

1. The obvious route almost everyone is taking, go turbo.
2. A Cam from a MPFI 2.0 has a higher lift, which holds the valve open longer, ie: more fuel in the cylinder = more power.
3. T-3/T-4 turbo if you want to do it cheap you can get the turbo from a turbo SAAB, Volvo, Mustang and T-bird. You will of course have to redo you piping as well as have a exhaust manifold worked on.
4. See “Grand Am 2.0 turbo” (E-bay search this also for some parts).
5. Intercooler/BOV obvious but needed
6. Manual boost controller (See MBC at bottom links) for about 3 bucks.
7. MPFI swap you can keep your head but you need: injectors, fuel rail, wiring, ECM, throttle body, throttle cable, coil packs (the MPFI cars don’t have a distributor), cap for the end of the head were distributor is supposed to go.
8. If you have a 2.0 turbo put a MPFI throttle body on cause its bigger and bolts right on with little modification, a throttle body from a 2.8 Fiero is even better but requires a little fabrication work.
9. 3.1 radiator always helps to keep things cool, and its aluminum. Since one of the major design flaws of the 2.0 is a Head gasket going bad from overheating this is a good cheap upgrade just have to do a few custom hoses which can be done cheaply.
10. DOHC head swap. See below
11. A check valve or two in the line up to the map sensor to stop the ECM from limiting boost.
12. Water/methanol injection. (See the links at the bottom)


DOHC head swap:
There are two versions of the 2.0 in the UK that are DOHC they are the C20XE which is 2.0 16V DOHC that has 156 horsepower, and in 92 there was a turbo version of it that had 204 horsepower and 205 TQ. The turbo version was called C20LET Both engines use the same block as all the 2.0 Sunbirds, so to swap to a 16 valve DOHC sunbird you need the head, timing belt, timing cover, all the wiring, ECM, intake, exhaust, fuel rail, injectors, etc, etc…… but now you know it is possible. The only problem is shipping from the UK will be really expensive and so will the hole top half of a motor from a fairly new car, but if you got the money why not try it. As far as I know it has yet to be done.

Problems:

Won’t start:
First check for spark by pulling a plug wire and sticking a screw driver in the end while someone cranks over the car if there’s sparks obviously you have spark, if not proceed to “spark”. If you have spark check for fuel by just looking into the throttle body if your TBI, if its carbureted you can just look to see if fuel is in the carb but if you cant just pull a fuel line to see if your getting fuel out of it when the car is being cranked, if your MPFI relive fuel pressure and pull a fuel line and see if gas come out while the car is being cranked over,(put the line in a bottle or something cause the fuel will come out of there pretty quick) make sure your not checking the return. If your getting gas then its ok if not go to “fuel pump”. And if you have gas and spark then there is no reason it shouldn’t start except air sometimes it won't start if the air intake is completely clogged but it very rare that happens. If it won't crank over check battery or starter, if both are good check wiring.

Fuel pump:
First be sure it’s plugged in, lol and make sure all the fuses are fine. But one thing you can do is look around your driver side strut tower around the wiring harness and there should be a single grey wire hanging lose with a plug on the end that's not plugged into anything. with the ignition key in the "run" position apply 12 volts of power to the end of the plug, and the fuel pump should come on, If it doesn’t that means there is a break in the wires somewhere between the fuel pump and the ignition or the relay. If the pump does work then that means the relay is gone, the relays are located on the passenger side behind the shock tower, there little black boxes with white numbers stamped on them, pull out the relays(only one is for the fuel pump) to find which one is for the fuel pump look at the wires that are going into the back of the relay , look for a pink wire with a black stripe on it and a grey wire, (they should be going into the same relay) these are the fuel pump wires pull the cap off the relay and find one piece of wire and strip the ends then put one end of it on the metal prong of the plug the grey wire is attached to and put the other end of the wire on the metal prong the pink/black wire is attached to, if you do this with the ignition in the run position and the fuel pump works, and you pull the wire off and the pump dies the relay is gone and that is your problem. If your still not getting gas flush the fuel lines to make sure there not clogged/plugged, also be sure your injectors are getting power on positive and they are properly grounded.

Spark:
If you have no spark first check all your plug wires, make sure there in good shape and all plugged in properly. Then check the coil and be sure it is getting power and distributing it as well, if none of that works check all your wiring into the coil and be sure its all properly grounded.

Random facts:
-Carbureted models have a mechanical fuel pump mounted on the block on the side facing the front of the car, TBI and MPFI cars have electric fuel pumps in the gas tank.
-The 2.0 turbo and the Getrag transmission were only available in the sunbird GT until 1990, the 2.0 turbo and the Getrag trans never came in any other J-body from the factory.
-From 82-85 the 2.0 came with E2SE carburetor.
-In 86 the 2.0 had a model 300 throttle body.
-From 87-91 the 2.0 had a model 700 throttle body.
-From 92-94 the 2.0 had multi port fuel injection (MPFI).

Info:
Almost all the info here I learned from nine months on the org and my Chiltons manuals (for specs)
http://www.lt3.reallyrules.com
http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/mbc/mbc.php MBC
http://www.v6z24.com Mostly Z24 stuff, but there is some info on the 2.0 in there.
http://www.dawesdevices.com/water.html

Quote:

don't know where the mods want to put this or if they want to sticky this or not.

I just feel this information should be shared

This is various misc info I have been reading over the passed month since I've done the 2.0 turbo swap into my "dirty bird"

I've compared block designs and approximately when blocks were introduced.

ie: seems when gm bought shares into saab, the quad 4 was brought into north american production. interesting eh?



2.0 8v sohc turbo

aka:
LT3 (north america)
C20NE - "t" (UK and europe)
- I put the "t" there to denote the turbo.


In the UK and erope, there is no turbo version of the sohc 8v,.. only 2 versions of the n/a 2.0 8v sohc

here is an earlier version of the LT3
1.8 8v sohc turbo



C20NE - this is the "low output" with 115 bhp
C20SEH - this is the "high output" with 130 bhp



obviously the C20NE is lower compression so which puts it closer in relation to the LT3

Other Variants of the 2.0 8v sohc is a dohc

C20GET (turbo)

C20LET (turbo - 205 bhp)



C20XE (150 bhp)

being the non-turbo variant

the blocks are all the same from what I gather, hense,.. a dohc hybrid can be attained.

I've also come across a european ecotec.




looking a little more on the european ecotec,.. opel has a 3.2 v6 ecotec which looks amazingly like the 3.4 dohc motor used by gm a while back.
I'm willing to bet the block is the same



On the ecotecs, (including the north american one) the heads are reversed.

I have a feeling the 2.0 8v sohc block is extremely closely related to the 2.0 european dohc ecotec/2.0 north american dohc s/c block.

intake is at the front, exhaust is out the back. Which is much like a quad 4 motor

Perhalps gm used a somewhat popular block (the LT3) and used what seems to be a more reliable head design (the quad 4).

exhaust out the back - not heat soaking the engine bay

However I have been seeing different variants of the ecotec motor with exhaust and intake just like the C20XE

Doing more research, the new ecotec 2.0 versions have the exact same bore and stroke. The head flows opposite.

this motor here is an X20XE - the very first ecotec design

* note that it is distributorless




Daewoo and opel still produce the 2.0 dohc relative of the LT3

The older saab's 2.0 are using a similar design.



looking more into the saabs, they use a timing chain instead of a belt. Much like the quad 4/2.4 dohc

I wouldn't be surprised if the quad 4 design is based on the saab 2.3


Jumping back into the history of the 2.0,.. it stretches far back to the 70's and opel, who designed this engine.


Aside from 2.0 engine research,.. I've been digging into transmission research aswell

afaik there is 1 getrag 6speed tranny developed for transversely mounted engines that was produced, for european market.

it is an awd tranny,.. but there are fwd conversion kits for it

Here is the gear ratios

Transmission Final Drive i = 3.72

1st... 3.57
2nd... 2.16
3rd... 1.45
4th... 1.10
5th... 0.89
6th... 0.74
Reverse 3.32

And the standard Getrag HM282's that are most common on gm fwd's

1st - 3.50 (driven gear 49 teeth, drive gear 14) 33mph @ 6000 rpm
2nd - 2.05 (driven gear 41 teeth, drive gear 20) 56 mph @ 6000 rpm
3rd - 1.38 (driven gear 33 teeth, drive gear 24) 84 mph @ 6000 rpm
4th - 0.94 (driven gear 35, teeth drive gear 33) 115 mph @ 5650 rpm
5th - 0.72 (driven gear 31 drive gear 43) 119 mph @ 4450 rpm
Final Drive Ratio - 3.61:1

note that 1st and 2nd are relatively close,.. however 3rd and 4th are much shorter gears, utilizing the hp at the higher rpm

I think the getrag F28 would be a much better transmission for fwd track racing as you will be well into 4th gear entering your peak hp/rpm crossing the 1/4 line

BLK..... This "advanced mileage" may be of no consequence, IF the previous owner has kept the oil changed! My '89 2.0l Turbo's got 230,000 mi on it - and the engine's never been touched (probably due to my oil changes every 3500mi). My S'Bird uses a SuperChip, which allows more than stock boost. Yeah, this gen uses EPROMS - called MemCal.
An intercooler might be nice, but pulling the thermostat is a helluva lot cheaper! My manifold inlet temp runs about 40-50F cooler with it pulled . Then the ECU allows 15+psi boost before detonation, with a marked improvement in my 0-60 times.....
The message is, for performance keep the engine/inlet temp COOL!! (Unless you're shooting for good gas mileage. HA!!)
Good luck,
Moe

Ok sweet, definitely some good information there.

Moe, do you know if you can find the Eprom calibrations for these cars online? It'd be cool to download a performance chip cal, desolder the old Eprom, put a socket in, and use my Eprom burner to write the new performance cal.

Is Memcal the recalibration program for the Eprom chips in these cars? If so, where can I find it?

Alright, so far I've got the exhaust upgrade (well, muffler and cat removed), intake done, and a BOV mounted onto the stock turbo outlet pipe...

I was going to attempt to mount an intercooler, but after having the car on the lift and trying to find out how to do it, I wouldn't be able to unless I hacked up some of the brackets up front, and moved the rad over at least an inch.

Google: "memcal" --> 1st page on list:
http://www.iroczone.com/techartpromid.htm

No need to cut brackets for IC. No need to move radiator.

Burning a generic cal gets you next to nothing, possibly leaves you a step behind. Get datalog software first, look to see what engine's doing. Imagine your reaction if doctor walked in with no idea of your symptoms and started discussing brain surgery.

Search button is still your friend.

-->Slow

I have searched a bit, didn't really find anything to helpful.

Have you mounted an intercooler in a 2nd gen Sunbird? I'd like to see how you managed to make one fit without cutting or moving the rad over.

Unless my car has an oversized rad, I simply don't see how it's possible to have a FMIC without cutting or moving it.

And the memcal site didn't really help, all it had was part numbers? I'm looking for tuning software, or custom tuned calibrations.

I understand what your saying about the generic cal thing, but basically, a generic cal can just have a bit of a boost increase, which is what I'm looking for. Unless the ECU can handle a manual boost controller up a few pounds, because this car has no balls from a roll. Launch its great, mainly because of the gearing in 1st and 2nd.

BLK.....
Check out SuperChips.com for what's available for the (Brazil) 2.0L TurboMotor. So far as the actual calibrations are concerned, that stuff was pretty proprietary with GM. But U can hook up with Freescan.com for the software U need so's U can drive the car around with a laptop connected to yer ALDL port and look in on your performance parameters! (Most of this software was developed from data gathered from my '89 TurboBird....)
("Memcal" was merely the moniker attached to the EPROM system found in 2nd gen GM products....)
Have fun!
Moe

Quote:

I have searched a bit, didn't really find anything to helpful.

Hmmm... I click "search" then select "search all threads" and "search message bodies" and type in "intercooler sunbird" and it returns 10 pages of results. There's threads where people talk about tuning, about increasing boost, about changing cams... lotsa stuff. Here's one thread you might want to look at. http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=28&i=8939&t=8939#8939

BTW, I'm currently searching for information on calculating the "K" factor used by GM to rate torque converters so I can try to determine maximum torque multiplication of the 95+ S10 4L60E converter. I spent about 45 minutes collecting preliminary information yesterday on how to interpret GM converter codes and I expect I'll spend at least an four today if I'm lucky. And when I'm done I will have an idea 1) what TCC clutch material is used in my converter, 2) The expected maximum TCC torque allowed, 3) what the stall speed will be with my engine and vehicle, 4) what the maximum torque multiplication value will be, and 5) converter diameter. This one may take some time because it is information that few people really want to delve into. Sunbird and LT3 engine info is like that, too. You should practice searching, else you will be constantly asking someone else "how do I do this?"

The memcal page showed you right at the top what a memcal is, so you have the ability to identify one by sight. If you followed the links on that page you would have found a method to install a custom eprom without any soldering. If you looked at the supplier of the parts used to install the custom eprom you would have found a plethora of tuning hardware and even some software. While GM was close lipped about the Sunbird calibrations, it's ironic that the last generation of Sunbird calibration was one of the first with almost complete support in the grassroots tuning community. GM used the same code in the Syclone and Typhoon (with appropriate variables for a turbocharged AWD V6, of course). There have been some huge projects related to that code, and there are plenty of programs which you can use for free to alter calibration variables when you get into it.

I've seen some interesting things with "off the shelf" performance chips, such as nothing more than altering the temp at which an engine will enter closed loop, or turning up WOT timing 4-5 degrees with no other changes present, or adjuating timing when engine temp is lower than 20 deg F. The reason these chips offered "like stock" driveability is that they were pretty much stock. One company mentioned above used to supply it's dealers with a little "scrambler" they would use when installing one of their files. If you tried to read the chip without the scrambler you got garbage. Well, all the scrambler did was swap a couple of address and data lines. After I wrote a program to "unscramble" the calibrations, I found they were selling completely stock calibrations/i] as high performance cals. Bad, bad stuff imo. I have always recommended learning to burn your own calibrations. And if you can't or won't try that, at least find a local guy who has access to your specific vehicle.

GM adds lots of fuel and imo uses too much timing in the LT3 calibrations. The timing is a GM thing... all the older cals use bunches of timing. The fuel is for cooling in lieu of an intercooler. There is plenty of room for improvement. While you may want more total boost, it sounds like you also want to change how the engine responds to throttle changes. I've found that reducing AE makes the engine much crisper and doesn't tend to drown the turbo in cool, too rich exhaust. The final result is a car with more "snap" when you press the throttle. Good luck finding an aftermarket chip which has modified the AE parameters.

-->Slow

Ok thanks a bunch, pretty good info again.

I searched Saab intercooler and got nothing for hits though =/

Could you take some better pics of the intercooler install?

Quote:

Could you take some better pics of the intercooler install?

I think it's going be June before the snow melts enough to even think about moving that car. The point wasn't to show you how it's done, but to show that you don't need to move the radiator or cut up the front end to install one.

-->Slow

Well I can see clearly where you mounted it.

I just can't see, at all, how you routed the pipes around the rad. My car has AC as well.

As I remember, the pipes route around the RH side of the radiator down very low. The Saab cooler end tank has both inlet and outlet aimed in the same direction so both pipes can come through in almost the same place. I might be able to get the hood open enough to show where the pipes go through from the engine side.

-->Slow