Hi, I am in the middle of a 2nd gen 2.0 OHV head swap and am wondering if I could swap it out with a 3rd gen 2200 one with roller rocker arms with little or no modifications.

The head will bolt on, but you will need to figure out some sort of custom accessory setup, since the 2200 uses a different styl tensioner/alt bracket.

Go to www.ny-jbodies.org and look at the 2.2 history article in the library.

95-96 head will bolt. but the tensiors are different like james said.

if you go with a 97+ you've got alotta re-wiring to do.




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Really?
A 2.2 head will bolt right on to a 2.0 block. Ok. But can't I just bolt my old tensioner to it? They are removable afterall. And I have no accessories. No AC, No Power Steering. Are the bolt patterns the same for the tensioner? And as for wiring, I am only after the head. How can there be wiring issues if the head by itself has no plugs or connectors?

Anybody who wishes to share knowledge is welcome.

Did you read the article I posted a link for? The 2.2 is basically a worked over 2.0 OHV.

I don't know of anyone who has ever done what you're asking, so I have no idea if the tensioner/accessory bracket will bolt up or not. The 2.2 head has blind threaded holes in it for the bracket, but the holes may not be in the same place as whats needed for the 2.0 or 2200 head. Even if you have no accessories, you still need to drive the water pump and alternator somehow. Also- the intake manifolds are different for all three engines. When Stenger was talking about wiring, he was talking injectors, TPS, CTS, etc, all of which are different (the plug may be the same for the sensors, but I guarantee the injectors are different. You can't even run the 2.2 or 2200 injectors off a 2.0 OHV ECM since they are different types).

Basically the only thing thats the same is the head bolt pattern, coolant and oil passages, and bore diameter.

Yes, so I see. I have read the post and am now even more interested. Now I wonder if it is possible to run an sfi engine on a mpfi setup, just like the 3x00s.

People run 3X00s with the generation 2 computers so maybe you can do the same with the 2200s. And yes, I will have to switch out my whole wiring harness probably. I will go back to the junkyard and do some more comparison and research. Other than that, yes, there is a tensioner that works from those engines, and the accessories are all in the same place. But the intake manifold also requires the new throttle body which requires the new fuel rails. Oh, and along those lines, the head requires the same rods right? which requires the same cam?

An engine will run off of whatever ECM you want to use. It has no idea what kind of car its in or whats running it. All it needs are the basics, but the ECM circuitry has to be correct (ex- high and low impedance injectors use different circuitry).

The intake manifold is completely different (even the bolt pattern) so plan on using the 2200 one, which has the injection setup/TB integral to it. You can use any TB you want, I know there are several aftermarket ones available for the 2200, and it really has nothing to do with the injectors/fuel rail.

I'm not sure about the pushrods. Best bet would be to find out the lengths, and use the one that fits. They are probably the same length, but you should double check. You really could use any cam you want, as long as it fits and meets your needs (lift, duration, etc.) I don't know if the 2200 cam will fit the 2.0 block, or even if the 2.2 cam will fit. You will need to do the research on that too.

i think theres a few years of the 2200 that used a different rocker arms. like how in 93/94 they changed, then i think they may have changed in again in 96 or 97 to a smaller version.

only reason i know this is because to you the larger rockers on a 2200 outta lets say a 02 2200 is because you have to drill out the rocker studs, re tap and add larger studs. my buddy ian was going to do this swap but when he found that out, he said f it.


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The project is now being done. It will need slightly shorter rods from the new engine though. Other than that, I have a long list of parts. the project is on.

so if im reading this corectly i can put a 2200 intake and head on my 93 2.2 if i can fig what to do with the belt assmbly run a 2200 ecm and inj and solve my fuel prob for my turbo...... is this right

Yup.

I'm going to be watching this with great expectations....

i too will be watching.... and hoping for no ghetto riging


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Umm, no, I am doing a complete 2200 head swap, and the 2200 tensioner should work with the same 2200 belt bc as far as I see, they are all in the same place. And it will not be running off of a 2200 ECM, it will be running off of a MPFI ECM from a 92-94. Third of all, I am using my 2.0L OHV TBI block. I will put up a list of parts that I see I will need at some point in time.

And to James, if this works, I am for certain that it would be an ideal upgrade for you. The coolant runs more efficiently through the 2200 head, it uses roller rockers which will be a perfect match for your roller tip rockers, it will be quieter, cooler due to much less friction, better mileage, more power, and it will look cooler ; )

Okay, here is the parts list breakdown so far.

-2200 head (have it pressure tested and checked first)(why not port and polish while you have it out)
-2200 head cover
-2200 rocker arms
-2200 rods
-2200 intake manifold
-2200 throttle body
-2200 transmission to throttle body cable
-2200 gas pedal to throttle body cable
-2200 throttle body cable support bracket
-2200 fuel rails
-2200 fuel line hoses (probably some custom work needed, but it is just cutting rubber, so no big deal there)
-2200 belt tensioner
-2200 belt
-2200 head gasket
-2200 alternator and bracket (the tip of the bracket will have to be trimmed to fit over the engine mount)
-2200 distributor mount (it mounts on the side of thee engine now which makes it much easier to access than the old one which was behind the engine under the intake manifold)
-2200 transmission fluid dipstick (it has to go around the 2200 intake manifold)
-2200 thermostat
-2200 water pump manifold(the pipe that bolts on the back of the water pump's mount which is actually part of the engine block)
-2nd gen (OBD 2) MPFI wiring harness(for those doing the swap on a 91 and inferior, use the left (engine side) of the main plug of the harness. The plugs for your lights are different)
-2nd gen MPFI IAT sensor
-2nd MPFI gen transmission switch (it is where your shifter cable connects to the transmission)
-And all the other sensors and relays that may be different from your engine.

This is my shopping list. We will see if all this works. I will keep yall updated every now and then.

Definitely keep us up to date. I have looked into this several times, but do to one reason or another, I never got as involved as I would have liked to.

A couple things I'm curious about-
1- is the end of the throttle cable the same? Meaning, can I use the 2.2 one? (I'm guessing it is, since this is after all GM here)
2- the head gasket should be the same as a 2.2, since the block is the same. It may need a tiny bit of port matching, but it should work. That way I can still use the SCE gasket.
3- when you say "distributor mount" I'm assuming you mean ICM/coil packs rights?
4- can you get some pics of the "water pump manifold" tube thingy?
5- all 2nd gens are OBD I. What harness are you talking about? The 92+ MPFI one?

I don't have to worry about all the trans stuff, since I'm running the NVGT550 MG2.

Okay, here are some answers.
1. I don't think that they are the same thing. They do look different. They hook up to the throttle body completely different from my 2.0. But yours might be different from mine since it is MPFI.
2. The new head routes its coolant in the other direction so different paths are blocked off while others are opened up. Either way, the blocks do accommodate them so use the 2200 gasket.
3. I believe so. They come in pairs with 1-2-3-4 printed on them right? Do you know where your thermostat currently is? That gets moved somewhere else and the distributors/ICM/coil packs go in place of it. On the old head, that was where the coolant flowed into. Now, it flows in from the other side of the block which is the side where your belt tensioner is. This is why you have to use a 2200 tensioner. There is a big pipe that just runs right into the head.
4. I tried putting pics from my camera before, but the website does not like my format. I can try again. But it is that piece of metal that your radiator hose connects to which is behind the pump.
5. Yes the 92+MPFI one

That's it for answers. Now Ive got questions.
Will a 97+ 4 speed auto transmission work in a 2nd gen and bolt in?
And will a port and polished head land you better fuel economy?

The newer (95+) autos are electronic. The one you're specifically talking about is the 4T40E. It will bolt in, probably using a custom upper mount, but you will need to control it somehow. I don't know if its controlled by the ECM, or if it has its own seperate, stand alone computer.

A P&P head may land you better economy, but it all depends on what other mods you have done.

Thanks alot. I also read the other post. Thanks there too. So were there any 4 speed transmissions made on our cars?

I can't give you a straight answer on that one. I think there was a mechanical 4 speed, but I'm not positive.

what will that swap do performance wise?

-94Custom


<img src="http://www.bstuff.com/uploads/post-14-1121828144.jpg">

As far as performance, your car will run

Cooler
Faster
Quieter
More Efficiently
More Torquey
And perhaps more reliably. But that's if I get it to work!!
I got all the parts I believe I need and will now start the long assembly process. Let's hope this goes well so we can begin a new trend in J-body performance.

I now have everything gutted from the car and all the parts listed above plus pretty much the entire coolant hoses. I have to have all those too. I started plugging in wires and hooking up hoses, but I still have to get the head checked and am looking into just getting a gasket matching job done on the head while its out. Other than that, I have discovered my first two problems. The old power steering pump mount is connected to the block whereas the new one comes on the tensioner bracket and must be cut. At least that is what I saw. I hope I can just disassemble it. Second, they come with a second tensioner. My engine mount looks to be in the way of where that should go. I will be working on that. That is about it for now.

I take that first problem back. The power steering pump bracket matches up to the mount on the engine so it is okay. Secondly, the tensioner is about the same spot and will route about the same. That is it for now.