Suspicious Short? - First Generation Forum

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Suspicious Short?
Sunday, September 15, 2013 4:46 PM
So I am driving the bird...

I start to have a intermittent fail with everything in the car. It never dies completely, but feels like something big is grounding out. The tach was the worst - that thing was flying around like crazy.

So, after putting on ramps and disconnecting the power, I find my plastic cap over my starter wires is 1/2 off and a loose (not conected) bracket from the fuel line right above it is making contact with one of the starter wires. I am thinking if this was the problem, it would not just be intermittent. Besides that, everything was tight. I had the car partially outside getting rained on and had a nice treat from those front drains (mentioned in another post) dumping on me.

Any thoughts? This is my first post-head gasket problem - besides the heater core.





Re: Suspicious Short?
Sunday, September 15, 2013 5:13 PM
Weak grounding straps. I broke one on my car and it wouldn't run right. There are two I belive on 1st and 2nd gens




On the inside my car looks like a fighter jet.
Re: Suspicious Short?
Sunday, September 15, 2013 5:36 PM
Rob-

Where are these located? The battery cables are about 4 years old.




Re: Suspicious Short?
Sunday, September 15, 2013 10:39 PM
I would have to check my car but I do believe there are 2.Unitl I check sunny or someone else chimes in I will pop something up later.I am super worn out.



Re: Suspicious Short?
Sunday, September 15, 2013 10:52 PM
Quick check 1 is on the lhs fender close to the battery.2 is from my exhaust manifold bolt area to just literally below the battery tray.Real obvious spots and also there is a ground on top of the alternator on mine as well!The one on the battery tray (below it) is a factory flat style ground not like a battery cable,more weaved and yeah flat.I am so whooped today.If you need or would like pics I can take them like tues if that is ok.



Re: Suspicious Short?
Sunday, September 15, 2013 10:53 PM
I belive the both come off the bellhousing. I am pretty sure one is in the back middle and connects to either the firewall or drivers side battery area. The other goes from the front bellhousing to the battery tray or radiator support by the battery. Basically if you don't have any grounding straps just buy some universal ones and bolt it to the Trans or engine then to to body.




On the inside my car looks like a fighter jet.
Re: Suspicious Short?
Monday, September 16, 2013 5:26 PM
Yup grounds! My Pontiac had same type of problem after a motor swap years ago. Fully connected motor to chassis ground with weak braids.









Re: Suspicious Short?
Monday, September 16, 2013 6:38 PM
John, did you ever find out what was killing your engine when you used both front window switches?



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Re: Suspicious Short?
Monday, September 16, 2013 7:12 PM
No and it has not happened since then. I did the cable check and all seemed tight. ???????









Re: Suspicious Short?
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 5:24 AM
I checked it out. I don't seem to have any ground straps per se. I have a ground 1) that runs from the ds upper engine mount (right next to the battery tray) to the harness and 2) from the back of the engine on one of the head bolts underneath the alternator bracket. Ground 1) was not distrurbed in any way. Ground 2) was off the car for the HG changeout and not is now between an alternator bracket that was powder coated and the head bolt. I am thinking I could move this ground over one bolt pretty easily and get out from being sandwiched between the bracket. Its a PITA because I have to mess with the belt tension, but I am starting to think that might be a logical place to start.

Do we have any OHC Turbo guys that can confirm the lack of grounding straps and my routing on Ground #2 on the Turbo cars?




Re: Suspicious Short?
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 7:21 PM
There is a ground on the back of the intake on a stud next to the coil. There is another harness ground on a rear head bolt just to the left of the intake tube, from the front.There is another large harness ground on the rear left bolt of the trans support brkt. The upper brkt to the right of the trans mount or the left if looking from the front.



Re: Suspicious Short?
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 9:41 PM
It doesn't matter where the ground strap goes just as long as it is solid metal on the engine to solid metal body of the car. Grounding straps do go week over time and corrode. It is good to replace them. I am probably going to use speaker wire on my car. My 3400z had steal cable grounding straps that are used for winches.

My other car is like this and I also welded the ends after I used the screws
https://www.google.com/search?q=car+grounding+cables&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=QC45Uv3XOPKo4AOJpYCwDA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=775&dpr=1#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=UREGQqePXN6tAM%3A %3BWaaQRsIV5yHt1M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fi1.ytimg.com%252Fvi%252FTrrZyyiJln0%252Fmaxresdefault.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.youtube.com%252Fwatch%253Fv%253DTrrZyyiJln0%3B1920%3B1080




On the inside my car looks like a fighter jet.
Re: Suspicious Short?
Wednesday, September 18, 2013 6:25 AM
I checked in the shop manual yesterday and will recheck all ground mount points. In the diagrams, it looks like the ground on the head bolt on the back under the alternator bracket should be over one bolt and not under the bracket. It was mounted like that before. I am wondering if powder coating the bracket created a problem... I am thinking I will start with that and see if the situation corrects itself. Next steps would be to add another strap.




Re: Suspicious Short?
Friday, September 20, 2013 5:39 PM
I decided to be lazy and just added a grounding strap from the t-stat neck to the radiator support. Iested it a bit and I can power eveything up with nothing going dim. I will road test when it stops raining. My temp sensor on the neck so I will swap the pigtail on that soon. Can't really take chance with ANY sort of cooling fan problem on a OHC TURBO...




Re: Suspicious Short?
Friday, September 20, 2013 5:56 PM
Well doesn't matter where the straps are connected as long as its from a metal spot on the engine to the car.




On the inside my car looks like a fighter jet.
Re: Suspicious Short Update
Saturday, September 21, 2013 6:38 PM
Drove for about 45 min today after adding the strap and fixing the starter cover and removing the bracket with no issues. In the dark, everything on heat, lights, stereo. Plus side is lights do not dim when the fan kicks on anymore. Looks like top mount bolt on alternator is a fan of spinning out. I put on #3 with loc tite. Not sure what the problem was bu that could not have helped. Thanks for the support all.

Have developed oil leak on cam cover leaking down onto exhaust giving nice smell. I have the nice fel-pro reusable gasket that is blue with red/orange on the inside. Was thinking put on hand tight and loctite again. Manual calls for 7 ft/lbs but that is with the cork gasket. Need pigtail for fan sender too - then can return to larger projects...




Re: Suspicious Short Update
Tuesday, October 01, 2013 6:21 AM
Sealed cam cover and repaired pigtail - back in business. Been driving a bit here and there. Car seems to smell of burning oil at startup then it goes away. Will keep an eye on it. Starting to shop for CV axles and seals now. Just got the house painted and bought a used guitar so I spent most of my $$$ for the time being .




Re: Suspicious Short Update
Tuesday, October 01, 2013 10:29 PM
Go auto zone for the axle seals they carry Timken! I do believe in your ? asking about trans seals for axles and double checked and they part # I shared is what your ride should require.I soon to will be approaching my front end work this year I hope,once I finish the rear end stuff and new struts and axles I have already.I have had my axles for several years and just dragged my feet and put off.



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