Okay, this is on my '85 Skyhawk 1.8 non-turbo (don't laugh), 5-spd. I had some starting issues last fall, then it kinda went away, but seems to be coming back. I think its a heat thing, and it never happens when I'm home...
First of all, within the last 6 months the car has had new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coil, MAP sensor, O2 sensor, temp sensor and fuel filter. I think that's about it. Also, I have a fuel leak at the tank. It only leaks when the tank is full, and usually most noticeable when parked on a hill. I've crawled under there and it appears to be coming from the top of the tank, so I'm thinking fuel pump seal. I bought a new pump last weekend (can't find anything in the records to say the previous owner replaced it, and he kept EVERY receipt), hope to get it installed soon, but who knows.
The problem only occurs when the car is hot, and has sat for a bit. Drive to the store, go inside come back, and it will start and immediately die. Then I just have to wait it out, and it will start. Sometimes it will start and die, sometimes it will just start right up. Tonight was probably the longest I've had to wait for it. Fortunately I was able to leave the car, and have the wifey bring me back later. Usually its been about 5 or 10 minutes, tonight it was about 30 when I gave up, and I would say it happens maybe once every other week or so...
So, any thoughts. I'm wondering if maybe its the fuel pump. I tried to listen for it, but couldn't hear anything (baseball game going on close by), and noticed when I got home that it was still very quiet. I plan to replace it regardless, but...
For now I'll keep driving it to work, and just try to avoid going anywhere else. I don't have to drive it, but the fuel economy is hard to beat with a big 4WD... and I really don't want to tear out the fuel pump until I have my old van stripped and gone... but may have to park it for a while...
This sounds incredibly similar to an issue I had on my 96 Grand Am. I would drive about 1/2 way up north(3 hour drive), stop for gas, then try and start and it would not start. I waited for it to cool and it started right up.
It turned out to be the starter.
In my case, the starter would not turn. Re-reading your post it sounds a little different.
Remembering my recent pain... How old is the distributor? That is where my brain is taking me as the next logical step...
So interesting--I had the same problem with my 97 Grand AM V-6. Of course I solved the problem the day before I sold it. The bolt going into the side mount battery was VERY slightly stripped (I think the negative terminal). Turns out it would lose contact after driving around a while, and be fine once the car cooled down.
I know this doesn't sound like Closers problem, but maybe something like this is happening--just enough contact to get the thing turned over, and the vibrations from when it does is before the alternator kicks in, and of course without power, the whole car shuts down.
I know this sounds dumb, but just a thought to throw out there...
I would start simple. Do a voltage check number 1. Check the battery,and starter with the car off then key on not running and alternator.It may the armeteur is stuck and not engaging especially heat does this.I have dealt with this on my 87 mazda trk on starter number 3 after 22 yrs I know,sometimes it would hesistate or try to recrank and it would engage or drag.U can pull the starter off and get it bench tested at auto zone or advance for free but, if the starter has a DEAD spot the machine will never find it!!!!!! I would rule out the fuel pump simply bc while the car may or may not start is not always a pump failure but can happen mine did.U can do a pump psi check and u should hear the pump noisy with key ON and do not start the car and it is something that you can hear.If the pump is going plan on about 3 hrs to drop the tank (my time to do mine) and that was pretty easy with gettting tools and clean up included.While the distributor may come to mind paul I would LEAN more toward the COIL because HEAT is its enemy and if it starts to fail it getting hot or lets say warm it can cool down and the car will start after its cooled off(and this is the case most of the time).U can do a voltage check on ur coil too and if it the original I would replace it right off the bat,as long as ur bat,alter, and starter check out ok running, key on car not running.Whao this is a novel.The problem sounds like simply the starter is going 1 or the coil is going 2. I would read my book here and spend 15 minutes doing the simple stuff and spend that 25 or so dollars and prolly buy a new coil if all the other checks out in specs.I say COIL is the biatch.
thanks for the replies, but, coil was my first thought, but I put the new coil in Sunday. my next thought is an inline fuel pressure gauge, and get the ignition module tested. I'm sure its not the startr. It will crank and crank very strong...
Closer-
You can test the ignition module by popping off the distributor cap. I would warm the car up to the point of failure in your garage (if possible), then take one of those in line spark testers (goes in between coil wire and dist, and dist and plug) (like $6) and try it to eliminate issues with spark all together.
I am still thinking distributor...
Back to my starter idea, it always cranked strong, it would just draw more juice when hot and would not start.
Paul
Yeah, I found the test procedure in the repair manual. Gonna give it a shot when I have time.
and I now understand your starter issue. Dad had mentioned that, and it had kinda stuck in my mind, until this last time. It ran horrible for the minute or two that it stayed running, then died. Kinda making think fuel pump.
I'll probably just drive the truck to work tomorrow. (Drove it today, because I had to pull the trailer) Hopefully I'll have time Monday or Tuesday to test the ignition module, and I'd still like to stick an inline fuel gauge. I have a new pump, and will be changing it anyway. The gauge will also help me make sure the new pump is working correctly.
Thanks for the input everyone. Any other thoughts, let me know. The wife and I are heading to TX tomorrow, and won't be back till Monday, so no tinkering this weekend...
Well, for the first time ever she died while driving today. I was on the highway doing about 75, and she just shut down. Wifey pooh drove my truck up to tow it home, but we decided to go eat and give it a chance to cool off. Came back fired it up, and drove home. However, this time I didn't notice any gas smell as much as I was cranking. So, I pulled off the cleaner lid, and it was bone dry. Cranked it a bunch more, and still dry. Traffic was heavy, and it was hard to hear, but I couldn't hear the pump. When we came back there was almost no traffic, and I could hear the pump for sure. So, I'll be changing the pump out before any more trips in the little Hawk... Then hopefully I'll find time to swap in the power windows...
I had that exact problem with my dad's '88 Z24. It would run for a little bit then it would die and not restart until it cooled off. Three of six of the injectors had shorted out. Check the resistance of your injectors. I bet 2 of them are bad. Also I remember that the V6 cars had a problem with the fuel pressure regulator diaphram rupturing and causing starting issues but I don't know if the 4 cylinders had this problem also.
Well, I have a TBI, so there is only one injector, and I don't really suspect it, yet, since usually it seems injectors either work or they don't, but anything is possible. My fuel pump/sending unit seal is bad, so gonna replace the pump while I'm there. I'm pretty convinced it's the pump since the car will always start then immediately die. Like it's burning off the residual pressure in the lines... then dies.
The only problem is I'm stripping a van, and I really need to get it gone before I tear into the Buick. So, it may be a few weeks before I pull the tank. I also hope to add the power windows, fix the power locks, fix the leaky cruise servo, wire up the fog lights, replace the brake hoses, replace the driver's mirror, and give the whole thing a good cleaning... uh, after I change the oil.
BTW, nice looking Cavalier, Josh. Got more pix?
Closer,
Did you get the fuel pump changed out yet? The reason I ask, is.....I was cruising ~65mph Friday and my 84 just died on me. In 25 years, this car has never done this.
Plenty of spark but no fuel through the injector.
I trailered it home. Next day it started right up.
It runs ok, but wants to die after idling for a bit. I think low fuel pressure, so fuel pump it getting replaced.
I just changed the fuel filter about 2 weeks ago..
The car only has ~320,000 miles on it. Wonder it its under warrenty?
Nope, haven't got around to it yet. I've got a van I'm parting out that is sitting where I plan to work on it... Hope to get the engine out of the van this weekend (or what's left of the van), and then I can move the chassis out of the way, and work on the Buick.
but sounds like you've got the same problem. Mine has around 155k on it.
I can tell you first hand my pump started to fail and just starting cutting out.I had at the time took to a gm dlr do a chk on it back in 98 and this was when I first got the car and they say bad pump.I so ok I will do the work pay the diagnostics fee.It died on the way home and made it to my moms and dropped the tank and install and clean up took me 3hrs total in my moms drive way.Pump cost 45.00 at the time and my labor free,its really easy to do,u simply disconnect the two hoses going to the tank,liquid wrench the tank straps bolts undue and remove old pump install new and reinstall and I did replace my clamps hoses were fine.Also disconnect the battery b4 you do this.Easy job and use some latex cloves unless u like gas on ur hands.
Dropping a tank really that easy?
Is there a good way to drain the tank first?
Well the tank on mine has no plug to drain that I saw on a quick look.Unless ur really lame the tank is not that heavy and there are only two straps and the hoses going to it.I say drop it regardless of how much fuel is in it bc trying to pull fuel thru the gas cap location is useless.Mine had about a 1/4 tank luckily but, I would suggest either putting the rear end up on jack stands or jack it up and place ramps under the rear whls for clearance.I can bet you if I had to do another one it would take less time and definitely spray liquid wrench or bp blaster on the tank strap bolts (2) and be prepared to have like channel locks to and a flat tip screw drvr to pry loose the hoses and I would recommend buying new clamps so check the sizes b4 u do it to save a trip and those bolts should be metric.I say about 3 hrs for a first time,have the typical tools,new clamps for hoses (good idea) some brake cleaner to clean off the gas that will get on stuff to prevent hazards use some latex gloves sold at any auto store that's it.I swear this is easy!!!!!!!! even tho this is ur first time Make sure u disconnect the BATTERY.
Well, I got my fuel pump replaced and the car died the same day. As I was pokeing around the coil to see what size wrenches I'd need to swap that out........one of the wires to the coil fell off into my hand. The clip was broken and allowed the wire to pull away from its connection. Oh well, 300,000+ miles I think it was about due for a fuel pump!
Runs like a sewing machine again.....
Well, I FINALLY got the van "done", and out of the way this afternoon, so I'm ready to start in on the Buick. Hopefully tomorrow. Gotta hurry though, I'm bringing home 2 more projects possibly next weekend. One can wait, the other will be providing the new motivation for my '67 Belvedere convertible that I'm dying to have back on the road. But I really want the Buick back on the road too. I get tired of cars that shift for you...
Progress is progress...
As we get older, more and more projects seem to come up...
My Sunbird is down for powder cote on the front sway bar, still working tuning on the side. Just had Camaro rear put back together in time to cruise MIS. Now looking at a deal on better headers on the Camaro. Looking at ditching the 1 5/8 primaries for some 1 3/4 ones...
Iowa Pub wrote:Well, I got my fuel pump replaced and the car died the same day. As I was pokeing around the coil to see what size wrenches I'd need to swap that out........one of the wires to the coil fell off into my hand. The clip was broken and allowed the wire to pull away from its connection. Oh well, 300,000+ miles I think it was about due for a fuel pump!
Runs like a sewing machine again.....
Hey, what did you do about this? I have the same problem, though I've yet to see the wires come loose. I did bend the prongs in a bit to help hold. I found RockAuto lists new connectors, but haven't pursued it. I think GM used this same coil on many vehicles/years, so I would think someone would sell replacements...
Sounds like a trip to a boneyard is in order. I doubt you will find anything if it is on the harness side. Might be a good excuse for an upgrade though.
closer9 wrote:Iowa Pub wrote:Well, I got my fuel pump replaced and the car died the same day. As I was pokeing around the coil to see what size wrenches I'd need to swap that out........one of the wires to the coil fell off into my hand. The clip was broken and allowed the wire to pull away from its connection. Oh well, 300,000+ miles I think it was about due for a fuel pump!
Runs like a sewing machine again.....
Hey, what did you do about this? I have the same problem, though I've yet to see the wires come loose. I did bend the prongs in a bit to help hold. I found RockAuto lists new connectors, but haven't pursued it. I think GM used this same coil on many vehicles/years, so I would think someone would sell replacements...
Closer, I haven't done anythig. Just pushed the wires in and took off.
Probablly should at least tape em ya think? The car has run so good for so long I was suprised that it had this problem.
It did beak down one other time, but I was doing 65mph with a bad rod knock on the way to the shop to have my new engine installed. Motor done blowed up!
Finally!!! I got my fuel pump installed last night. Kind of a pain getting the tank in/out, but not too bad. I only drove it around the yard, but so far so good. Gonna drive around some this weekend, before taking it back to work (70 miles round trip)... Now, time for power windows!
WHOOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!
Just took her out for a fresh tank of gas and a 20+ mile back road spirited drive... Boy, I missed that little car. Hard to believe such a gutless little thing can be so much fun to drive. I really wish she had a few more horses, but still a fun little car.
I really think the fuel pump took care of a few different problems... I knew I had a gas leak, and was pretty certain it was the sending unit/pump seal (which was the reason I bought the new pump in the first place) which it was. The seal was swollen and spongy... Now I don't see or smell gas after a fill up when I always did before. Second, it always had a very slight miss at idle and slightly rough idle that I just couldn't figure out. Well, I never checked fuel pressure. She seems to idle just fine now with no miss. Next, every blue moon I would get a check engine light that turned out to be a "lean condition", well, now I know why. and finally the whole starting problem. Hopefully that one is solved too...
and I could be wrong, but I think at least one of those old horses I had thought was sent to pasture has come home. I know there were only what 86 or so of them new, but she seems have a little more giddy up... Since the day I brought her home I've kinda gauged her progress/power on the hill down the road from the house. The very first trip she could barely make it up the hill in third without dropping under 35... Now, I can do it in fourth at 45 and accelerate... Now if I just had a turbo!
Happy motoring...
(closer's kinda happy... cantcha tell?)
