This article just amazes me, I don't understand how our political leaders can be so ignorant!
from the kw record
"Ontario moves to seize cars juiced up for street racing
TORONTO (Jun 21, 2007)
The government has the power to seize and destroy cars that have been adapted for street racing, and can do so before a race takes place or any charges are laid, Ontario Attorney General Michael Bryant said yesterday.
Car junkies who pour thousands of dollars into their vehicles to make them as fast as possible are wasting their money, Bryant said.
He warned potential racers that all it takes is a tip from police to seize and destroy their cars.
"If we can establish someone has parts and they're juicing up their car -- obviously for the purpose of street racing -- then we can seize those vehicles,'' Bryant said.
"We will seize it and you will never see it again. We will crush your car, we will crush the parts.''
And Here's An Opinion Article Published On TheRecord.com
http://www.therecord.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=record/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1182486699753&call_pageid=1024322168441&col=1024322320546
Thanks to WannaBzee for the logo.
About the third time this has been posted -- the primary thread in the OT section.
About all I can say on the subject is that I'm safe, because my drivetrain is bone stock.
Shop Manuals, Brochures:
www.kenmcgeeautobooks.com
My cars isn't "suped" up..... It uses almost all factory GM parts
LOL!
My Cav
I give up...
i'm buying a VW those people love trees, so they should love eachother too... "Andy"
There's a couple of threads aboot this in Off-topic.
oops didn't realise there was other posts on this particular article, shoulda searched, my bad!
Thanks to WannaBzee for the logo.
they've done this before.. last summer i believe? they seized two imports and crushed them.
Those cars were bought at auction.
JinxedZ THE LOVED ONE wrote:Those cars were bought at auction.
Ah, Right. I remember them threatening to crush them, making examples and what not.
all I have to say is...if they can f*cking catch me, they can take my car...
Is this not against the charter or rights and freedoms ? I mean to seize and "destroy" the vehicle before the person is even charged ? let alone found guilty ? wow !
My Cav
I give up...
i'm buying a VW those people love trees, so they should love eachother too... "Andy"
No, it's part of due process. You can have your assets (car, house, animals) seized if they violate the law or facilitate violation of the law.
Anything you can put a key in the starter and stand on the gas with is capable of breaking the law... so you can see where there is a lot of gray area for interpretation.
If you're building a car that was purposely built to break the law (ie: removing the airbags, Safety glass, pretensioners, lowering it excessively, removing emissions controls, altering lights outside the CMVSS) and you get caught driving it, it's going to mean repair tickets (A LOT of them) or suspension of your safety certificate and plates. If you get caught with all that, AND you're engaging in a contest of speed or timed event on open public roads, then your car's gonna get crushed.
I keep on saying this: but you're only going to lose the car if you're being a douchebag.
IF YOU'RE CAUGHT STREET RACING, YOU'RE BEING A DOUCHEBAG.
this is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard of, to be honest there just encouraging people to run now, if i get pulled over and a cop tells me im losing my car i'm sorry but im gonna fight... and run. its just stupid now cops have nothing better to do than bug people who modify their cars when they should be out catching actual criminals who steal, kill,etc...
Stephen Mulder wrote:all I have to say is...if they can f*cking catch me, they can take my car...
Hahahaha posts like this make me laugh. Yes, champ, you're smarter and faster than every cop out there. Even the ones with radios on their cars. Oh snap, wait, they ALL have those. I'll PAY you to try and outrun them, and if you get caught, you give me my money back. Fair deal?
14.330 @ 96.37mph
Stephen Mulder wrote:all I have to say is...if they can f*cking catch me, they can take my car...
^^The reason they are threatening to do this in the first place....
black03coupe wrote:this is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard of, to be honest there just encouraging people to run now, if i get pulled over and a cop tells me im losing my car i'm sorry but im gonna fight... and run. its just stupid now cops have nothing better to do than bug people who modify their cars when they should be out catching actual criminals who steal, kill,etc...
Dude... are you hard of reading?
It's not John Q law out to get you because you have rims and a turbo kit. If you're
STREET RACING, YOU LOSE YOUR CAR. If you're abiding by the laws, and you're not illegally modifying the vehicle for speed, you're not going to lose your car.
People that run are going to get caught, that's the simple part. It's not a gestapo kicking in your door, it's idiots choosing to break the law time and again, and jeopardize YOUR life in the process of getting their kicks... it's about them getting their just desserts.
Some asswipe goes into an elementary school with a loaded pistol and starts shooting... you want him to have the gun for later? Same thing.
sorry i mistook it i thought it was basically if ur car is done up a cop can screw you over...
More people are going to be willing to run, especially with illegally modified cars (who just so happen to be good at what they do - going fast)
Will they get away? Maybe.
Is it worth it? Maybe.
Right, wrong, who cares ... its going to happen.
Does it affect us J-Body owners much? Not really.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:black03coupe wrote:this is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard of, to be honest there just encouraging people to run now, if i get pulled over and a cop tells me im losing my car i'm sorry but im gonna fight... and run. its just stupid now cops have nothing better to do than bug people who modify their cars when they should be out catching actual criminals who steal, kill,etc...
Dude... are you hard of reading?
It's not John Q law out to get you because you have rims and a turbo kit. If you're STREET RACING, YOU LOSE YOUR CAR. If you're abiding by the laws, and you're not illegally modifying the vehicle for speed, you're not going to lose your car.
People that run are going to get caught, that's the simple part. It's not a gestapo kicking in your door, it's idiots choosing to break the law time and again, and jeopardize YOUR life in the process of getting their kicks... it's about them getting their just desserts.
Some asswipe goes into an elementary school with a loaded pistol and starts shooting... you want him to have the gun for later? Same thing.
seems to me like you need to re-read it also, the key word in the article is "potential", meaning, you don't even have to race, if the officer thinks, or is told, you are on your way to a street race, then they are able to seize your car. is includes if you are just pulling to wendys or something late at night to grab a bite to eat and a cop sees you and thinks you are even meeting someone there to have an illegal race. this whole thing is extrememly prejudice towards anyone who wants to modify their car from LEGAL SANCTIONED DRAG RACES. bassically what i am getting from this whole thing, they want everyone to drive down the road like a good little grandparents going to visit their grandkids in thier buick Regal. slow and equally as dangerous.
Quote:
seems to me like you need to re-read it also, the key word in the article is "potential", meaning, you don't even have to race, if the officer thinks, or is told, you are on your way to a street race, then they are able to seize your car. is includes if you are just pulling to wendys or something late at night to grab a bite to eat and a cop sees you and thinks you are even meeting someone there to have an illegal race. this whole thing is extrememly prejudice towards anyone who wants to modify their car from LEGAL SANCTIONED DRAG RACES. bassically what i am getting from this whole thing, they want everyone to drive down the road like a good little grandparents going to visit their grandkids in thier buick Regal. slow and equally as dangerous.
Not to belittle what you're saying, but you don't know what you're talking about.
First: The charge has to stand in court, you have to have been engaged in a contest of speed or timed race, and you have to have made illegal modifications to your vehicle.
Second: You need to have been caught several times
in the act. Second hand info of your "going to a race" isn't probable cause, seeing you line up with another car and pound it to warm up your tires is.
Third: If you're in a Wendy's, and you're talking to people that have cars that are done up... guess what: you're not in a street race. You have the right to free association. It's like the same supposed cop arresting black people that meet up because they're supposedly planning to rob a place, or Indians because they're planning to run cigarettes across the border.
Fourth: The law actually doesn't have anything in it concerning legal drag races (or otherwise) on private property, just modifications to your vehicle that make it not legal to drive on public highways.
Fifth: You really have no clue... There's a reason it's called a maximum speed limit. You're not supposed to exceed it. Get it? That's why it's called a MAXIMUM, and SPEED LIMIT. People that don't pay attention are going to be dangerous in park, the only difference is how much damage they cause when they cause an accident. Instead of mandating drivers' education, and mandatory re-testing every 5 years for current drivers (which would make sense) they don't do it. Why? I don't know... it'd cost money. There'd still be idiots, but they'd at least not be able to claim ignorance.
BTW, I've read the proposal rather thoroughly, and the actual section of the Canadian Criminal Code that prohibits street racing, and the Ontario HTA, thanks. To make sure you do, here is the text of the actual proposal:
Quote:
FROM: http://www.ontariocanada.com/registry/view.do?postingId=980
Proposed Street Racing Regulation - Summary of Proposal:
MTO anticipates the creation of a new regulation under section 172 of the Highway Traffic Act (“HTA”) to define certain terms that are used in that section of the Act. The terms to be defined for the purposes of section 172 are: “race”, “contest” and “stunt”. While these terms already have their plain meaning, the regulation may allow that meaning to be further refined or clarified, or for certain activities to be excluded from the meaning of the terms.
Race:
The definition of “race” is expected to include any one of the following circumstances:
- A contest of speed;
- A driver tries to outdistance or to compete with another vehicle by accelerating or driving faster than the other vehicle;
- Trying to prevent other vehicles from passing;
- Driving at any speed above the posted speed limit to try to arrive at a destination ahead of one or more other vehicles.
The definition of “race” may take into account whether conditions or circumstances indicate that the driver is driving without due regard for any person and/or that their driving may cause harm to themselves or another person.
Stunt:
The definition of “stunt” is expected to target the unsafe use of a motor vehicle for the purposes of displaying some feat of unusual driving. The definition of “stunt” may take into account whether conditions or circumstances indicate that the driver is driving without due regard for any person and/or that their driving may cause harm to themselves or another person.
Contest:
The definition of “contest” is expected to include driving a vehicle on a public road in excess of the posted speed limit for the purposes of participating in a game or competition.
The definition of “contest” may take into account whether conditions or circumstances indicate that the driver is driving without due regard for any person and/or that their driving may cause harm to themselves or another person.
Organized and insured events will be excluded from the scope of the terms “contest” and “race”. Such events as navigational rallies or charity “Easter egg hunts”, or other similar activities carried out by drivers who are generally driving in compliance with the provisions of the HTA will not be made illegal. Similarly, where the road used for the rally is closed, or the event is approved by the local road authority, or sanctioned by a recognized motor sport organization, it will not be within the scope of the prohibited behaviour.
Police Procedures at Roadside:
The regulation will also specify how the roadside 7-day licence suspension and 7-day vehicle impoundment will be administered by the police services.
LINK <- The text of the actual law as it stands now, and if you want to see the nitrous prohibition, it's 172.1 or
HERE. If you actually read it carefully,it's actually making allowances for a legitimate racer by only requiring the Nitrous system be immediately visible, and only have the nitrous bottle disconnected from the rest of the system. On top of that, it's not like you don't already have the possibility to lose your vehicle. Chronic law breakers (specifically DUI/DWI offenders) have had their vehicles removed or forfeited on several occasions because they drove without a license. Multiple 7 day suspensions offenders can get life-time driving bans, and if they violate that, they can lose their vehicle.
Again, the point isn't to discourage the car enthusiast hobby, it's to deter illegal racing on public streets that endanger everyone's lives. Again, it's not as if John Q Law is going to spring from a bush with a car crusher in his back pocket and destroy your ride because you happen to have a set of aftermarket rims. The point I'm making is if you're obeying the law, you don't have to worry if you're informed because you can still fight the tickets you get. You only really need worry about when you do NOT obey the law, and even then, if you disobey the law too often.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, June 28, 2007 1:45 PM
If you think you're going to be able to outrun the police in a cavalier, you've probably either had your license for less than 2 years or you're very uneducated.
" To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous. "
all the cop has to do is say you threathened his live with legitament edvindence and he's justified in killing you hands down is it worth running and getting killed over a @!#$ cavalier who cares anyways someones allways gonna be stronger of faster anyways thats the way things work look at cars in general if no one cared they'd still be making model t's but people gotta have the newest thing. look at the motors in the camaro's and corvettes they used to make almost as much power as our cars do now for a V8. things will keep evoling do to the desires for then to evoled and if your that obessed with keeping up with it your an idiot and will be broke all your life with nothing to show for it
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Not to belittle what you're saying, but you don't know what you're talking about.
First: The charge has to stand in court, you have to have been engaged in a contest of speed or timed race, and you have to have made illegal modifications to your vehicle.
Second: You need to have been caught several times in the act. Second hand info of your "going to a race" isn't probable cause, seeing you line up with another car and pound it to warm up your tires is.
Third: If you're in a Wendy's, and you're talking to people that have cars that are done up... guess what: you're not in a street race. You have the right to free association. It's like the same supposed cop arresting black people that meet up because they're supposedly planning to rob a place, or Indians because they're planning to run cigarettes across the border.
Fourth: The law actually doesn't have anything in it concerning legal drag races (or otherwise) on private property, just modifications to your vehicle that make it not legal to drive on public highways.
Fifth: You really have no clue... There's a reason it's called a maximum speed limit. You're not supposed to exceed it. Get it? That's why it's called a MAXIMUM, and SPEED LIMIT. People that don't pay attention are going to be dangerous in park, the only difference is how much damage they cause when they cause an accident. Instead of mandating drivers' education, and mandatory re-testing every 5 years for current drivers (which would make sense) they don't do it. Why? I don't know... it'd cost money. There'd still be idiots, but they'd at least not be able to claim ignorance.
BTW, I've read the proposal rather thoroughly, and the actual section of the Canadian Criminal Code that prohibits street racing, and the Ontario HTA, thanks. To make sure you do, here is the text of the actual proposal:Quote:
FROM: http://www.ontariocanada.com/registry/view.do?postingId=980
Proposed Street Racing Regulation - Summary of Proposal:
MTO anticipates the creation of a new regulation under section 172 of the Highway Traffic Act (“HTA”) to define certain terms that are used in that section of the Act. The terms to be defined for the purposes of section 172 are: “race”, “contest” and “stunt”. While these terms already have their plain meaning, the regulation may allow that meaning to be further refined or clarified, or for certain activities to be excluded from the meaning of the terms.
Race:
The definition of “race” is expected to include any one of the following circumstances:
- A contest of speed;
- A driver tries to outdistance or to compete with another vehicle by accelerating or driving faster than the other vehicle;
- Trying to prevent other vehicles from passing;
- Driving at any speed above the posted speed limit to try to arrive at a destination ahead of one or more other vehicles.
The definition of “race” may take into account whether conditions or circumstances indicate that the driver is driving without due regard for any person and/or that their driving may cause harm to themselves or another person.
Stunt:
The definition of “stunt” is expected to target the unsafe use of a motor vehicle for the purposes of displaying some feat of unusual driving. The definition of “stunt” may take into account whether conditions or circumstances indicate that the driver is driving without due regard for any person and/or that their driving may cause harm to themselves or another person.
Contest:
The definition of “contest” is expected to include driving a vehicle on a public road in excess of the posted speed limit for the purposes of participating in a game or competition.
The definition of “contest” may take into account whether conditions or circumstances indicate that the driver is driving without due regard for any person and/or that their driving may cause harm to themselves or another person.
Organized and insured events will be excluded from the scope of the terms “contest” and “race”. Such events as navigational rallies or charity “Easter egg hunts”, or other similar activities carried out by drivers who are generally driving in compliance with the provisions of the HTA will not be made illegal. Similarly, where the road used for the rally is closed, or the event is approved by the local road authority, or sanctioned by a recognized motor sport organization, it will not be within the scope of the prohibited behaviour.
Police Procedures at Roadside:
The regulation will also specify how the roadside 7-day licence suspension and 7-day vehicle impoundment will be administered by the police services.
LINK <- The text of the actual law as it stands now, and if you want to see the nitrous prohibition, it's 172.1 or HERE. If you actually read it carefully,it's actually making allowances for a legitimate racer by only requiring the Nitrous system be immediately visible, and only have the nitrous bottle disconnected from the rest of the system. On top of that, it's not like you don't already have the possibility to lose your vehicle. Chronic law breakers (specifically DUI/DWI offenders) have had their vehicles removed or forfeited on several occasions because they drove without a license. Multiple 7 day suspensions offenders can get life-time driving bans, and if they violate that, they can lose their vehicle.
Again, the point isn't to discourage the car enthusiast hobby, it's to deter illegal racing on public streets that endanger everyone's lives. Again, it's not as if John Q Law is going to spring from a bush with a car crusher in his back pocket and destroy your ride because you happen to have a set of aftermarket rims. The point I'm making is if you're obeying the law, you don't have to worry if you're informed because you can still fight the tickets you get. You only really need worry about when you do NOT obey the law, and even then, if you disobey the law too often.
please, re-read what i had posted. I have read through it all very thuroughly. from what i have read you seem to fail to see it from different perspectives. you seem to see it from the governments perspective whereas i see it from the normal everyday person who is on the outside of it. i have gone through this law many times now, and the ammount it doesn't describe is rediculous. for instance with the definition of "Contest" the officer in question could see someone driving along at a reasonable pace, say 3-5 over the posted limit, at any time of day on any roadway/highway, and presume there is another vehicle out of sight that is within said "contest" and this makes it so the officer has every right to pull the person over.
first - as per what EcotecSS said, all the officer has to say in a court of law is "i believe there were lives at risk" and boom, you're done. approx. 75% of all cases, where the officer shows up, are awarded in the officers favor due to when compared to citizens from the age of 17 (when we get our licence to drive, dur) to the age of 29, the officers word will hold more weight, because they are more respected within the community.
second - does the law mention that a person must be causght in the act? NO. all there has to be is Probable cause for said infringment and the officer has every right to react.
third - no @!#$. but if there is some dumbass who decides that they want to have fun and see the cherries going towards someone else, they can call up and say "people are meeting to go for a street race, you guys should go check it out." the officers have every right to go and check it out.
fourth - once again, no @!#$. i was saying it's prejudice towards people who modify their cars to be both track ready and be street legal at the same time. how often do you see a car driving down the road that looks like it could be able to be on a track? EVERY DAY. how often do you see cars with the extra wide rear tires that look like they shouldn't be on the road? I'm not sure about you, but i see them quite often.
fifth - do you think i'm some young assed punk kid who does nothing but drive reclessly? F*ck you. not every kid does @!#$ like that, though there are few who do, I don't appreciate pricks like you who generalize. whenever i can help it, i do not like to speed, when i am on city streets i stick to the limit, the only time going away from it is when it changes, if ever, i'm maybe a max of 5 over. on major highways (400, 401, 404,407 ect.) my max will be 115.
one thing i was wondering, HOW IN THE LIVING CRAP did you get over to DUI/DWI offences and the use of Nitrous? to me this is a poor excuse on covering your won ass by attempting to change the subject.
