Well, after a few years, I finally bought an AC/DC TIG inverter and will be using it mainly for fabrication projects related to the cavalier. My question today relates mainly to aluminum intake manifold fabrication, so I figured this would fit in the performance section. If mods feel it needs to be moved, then feel free to move it. On to the question...
I have read countless articles and forums talking about the differences between 4043 filler rod and 5356 filler rod, but am still not entirely sure which is ideal. I have 6063 tubing that will be welded to 6061 and some 6061 welded to 6061. From what I've read, 5356 is stronger with machined aluminum (non-cast), yet more prone to cracking and not intended for temps above 150 F and more difficult to feed into the weld puddle. I also found a chart that shows 4043 resists corrosion better (for these alloys) when bare, but doesn't take to anodizing well due to its silicon content. I plan to run E85, so corrosion resistance is important to this project. The more I read, I keep leaning more to 4043 and not anodizing, but thought I would get the thoughts of some of our fabricators here, first (Aaron, Adam, Fetter, Hahn, etc.). I would greatly appreciate hearing your input. Thanks.
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im none of those people but i use 4043 for everything. now if someone is gonna get something anodized then use 5356 as the 4043 doesnt take anodizing well.
mike
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, November 26, 2010 4:25 PM
i make neons go fast
^^^ Your input still counts mike
You just haven't been around here long enough for me to think of you off the top of my head, sorry, lol.
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Whalesac wrote:^^^ Your input still counts mike You just haven't been around here long enough for me to think of you off the top of my head, sorry, lol.
its ok, i guess lol. ive never had any issues with cracking from 4043 welds. when u initially dip the 5356 rod though it has a green hugh to it and kind of leaves a burn mark around the initial dip spot, no worries though u can wipe it off, it welds really nice though IMO, but i just stick with 4043 as nobody has ever anozized anythign of mine. well if they did they didnt let me know ahead of time.
mike
i make neons go fast
4043 is what we use
-Aaron
www.TurboTechRacing.com
Performance Parts For Cavalier, Sunfire, Cobalts and More!!!
mike anwsered it all, i personally just use 4043 because i have had no one need anything to be anodized. what kind of machine did you pick up?
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Thanks for the help gentleman.
Brandon - It's an Everlast PowerTig 200DX
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It maybe hard to get a good weld on 1/2" aluminum to a 1/8" wall runner tube with those 200 AMP welders... It is the hardest part to weld...
We use a 1/8" diameter 2% thoriated tungsten, and it pulls almost 250-275 AMPS to get a nice penetration weld. This is for the above specified area.
All other locations we use a 3/32" diameter 2% thoriated tungsten, and it pulls 75-175 AMPS to get a nice penetration weld. Those welders would be perfect for that.
This is what we have:
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/syncrowave_350_lx
It is just the main 1/2" thick flange that will cause you the trouble.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, November 28, 2010 6:50 AM
-Aaron
www.TurboTechRacing.com
Performance Parts For Cavalier, Sunfire, Cobalts and More!!!
Turbo Tech Racing wrote:It maybe hard to get a good weld on 1/2" aluminum to a 1/8" wall runner tube with those 200 AMP welders... It is the hardest part to weld...
We use a 1/8" diameter 2% thoriated tungsten, and it pulls almost 250-275 AMPS to get a nice penetration weld. This is for the above specified area.
All other locations we use a 3/32" diameter 2% thoriated tungsten, and it pulls 75-175 AMPS to get a nice penetration weld. Those welders would be perfect for that.
This is what we have:
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/syncrowave_350_lx
It is just the main 1/2" thick flange that will cause you the trouble.
u should use ceriated for everything, when grinding that 2% that @!#$ creates radioactive dust......... no bueno i use 7/16" plate on my throttle body flanges if thats what u guys are referring to and only have a v205 from lincoln. on the head flanges i use 1/2" though. but i pop that in the oven for a little bit to get it preheated.
mike
i make neons and j-bodys go fast
Would you guys recommend beveling the plenum before welding up to the Throttle Body flange, or just keep it a flush corner weld?
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ammfab wrote:
u should use ceriated for everything, when grinding that 2% that @!#$ creates radioactive dust......... no bueno i use 7/16" plate on my throttle body flanges if thats what u guys are referring to and only have a v205 from lincoln. on the head flanges i use 1/2" though. but i pop that in the oven for a little bit to get it preheated.
mike
ditto on pre heating, anything ive ever used his welder on has worked great. even though mainly ive done some charge pipes and some minor exhaust things.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, November 28, 2010 9:41 AM
ammfab wrote:Turbo Tech Racing wrote:It maybe hard to get a good weld on 1/2" aluminum to a 1/8" wall runner tube with those 200 AMP welders... It is the hardest part to weld...
We use a 1/8" diameter 2% thoriated tungsten, and it pulls almost 250-275 AMPS to get a nice penetration weld. This is for the above specified area.
All other locations we use a 3/32" diameter 2% thoriated tungsten, and it pulls 75-175 AMPS to get a nice penetration weld. Those welders would be perfect for that.
This is what we have:
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/syncrowave_350_lx
It is just the main 1/2" thick flange that will cause you the trouble.
u should use ceriated for everything, when grinding that 2% that @!#$ creates radioactive dust......... no bueno i use 7/16" plate on my throttle body flanges if thats what u guys are referring to and only have a v205 from lincoln. on the head flanges i use 1/2" though. but i pop that in the oven for a little bit to get it preheated.
mike
Yes pre heating would help and lower the needed amps on the thick parts, we dont, as the welder is large enough to heat it up fairly quick.
-Aaron
www.TurboTechRacing.com
Performance Parts For Cavalier, Sunfire, Cobalts and More!!!
I use 5356 only. Its a much harder wire. Automotive parts like 4043 but 5356 have a much nicer finish. If you are running a mixer you can run helium as well and that will give you a even nicer weld. The trick with TIGing is that you have a super clean part. Make sure its free of oil and dirt. Then you want to make sure for aluminum that you have a balled up tungsten, If its straight ( what you are suppost to use on Steel) it would flow as nice.
Mark
http://www.overkillengineeringmotorsports.com/
ceriated if u sharpen it, it will ball the tip, pure balls very easily and is great for aluminum but ive recently went to ceriated to be on the safe side.
mike
i make neons and j-bodys go fast
Just picked up some ceriated tungsten, 4043 and 308 filler rods, all in 1/16" and 3/32". I'll be looking at some argon tanks later this week.
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Whalesac wrote:Just picked up some ceriated tungsten, 4043 and 308 filler rods, all in 1/16" and 3/32". I'll be looking at some argon tanks later this week.
only time i use 1/16" steel/stainless rod is when doing tubing or pipe to flange welds and have never needed bigger, well not in automotive use. as for the 3/32" well any aluminum welds u ever see from me they have and will always be 3/32" rod as it work great u just gotta get good at dipping it without it freezing the puddle on the thin stuff and on anything 1/8" or bigger and its great.
mike
i make neons and j-bodys go fast
Mike,
- 3/32" 308 filler is for the 1.5" sch-10 (.109" wall) piping of a twin scroll turbo header I'm also building
- 1/16" 308 is for the v-band, downpipe and exhaust
- 3/32" 4043...well duh (topic of thread)
- 1/16" 4043 for charge pipes (may go to 3/32" if 1/16" is too difficult to work with)
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3/32" is too big for pipe welding, personally i do a fusion root and a .045" or 1/16" cap depending on what i have availible. as for the tubing for the exhaust and down pipe, 1/16" is fine but .045" is gret for that 16 gage stuff. and for welding tube or pipe to 3/8" or 1/2" head flanges i use the 1/16" all the time. just some helpful advice so take it for what it is. personally im not the best pipe welder....... well in terms of looks (im getting there). but i have no doubts in my welds in terms of strength and longevity.
mike
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, November 29, 2010 8:44 PM
i make neons and j-bodys go fast
yea like mike said its all personal preference, but i dont use 3/32 really at all unless im welding some super thick steel. on pipe i do a root fusion pass followed by filler pass with 1/16' rod. on alum i really dont even use 1/16 rod, even on charge pipes i still use 3/32. i dont know if you are or not but you should really go to honda-tech and go to the welding and fab forum there is alot of good advise and tips over there. i never went to one class for tiging and have pretty much picked it up just by welding and reading on ht about what to do etc. but im not going to say im great im still a novice and still learning everyday.
also hats off to you sir for being someone that wants to build your own stuff
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ive been on HT for fours years now, one of the best fab forums on the web IMO.
mike
i make neons and j-bodys go fast
I haven't been on Honda-tech in a while. I'll definitely give the fab forum a look. Thanks again, guys.
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I just did some more practice welding 304 stainless 1.5" sch-10 tubing this past weekend. Sadly, I haven't really done any welding since probably December, so my work is still horrid. I forgot to take pictures to show the work, but I did manage to remember to take a shot of my cart (everything is at my parents' house due to living in an apartment
). I realized I never showed my equipment before, so here's my setup...
- PowerTig 200DX
- 100% Argon (it's going to need a refill fairly soon)
- Striker CFB Welding Helmet
- Tillman Welding Jacket
- Miller TIG gloves
- Variety of consumables and filler rod
- 2% Ceriated Tungsten
I plan to do a lot more welding in the coming months and show off some of the progress along the way. Hopefully before the end of this summer, these manifolds will be a reality, and not just your usual Jbody pipe dreams.
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good deal man, just practice all you can.
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R.I.P. Brian Klocke, you will never be forgotten
Quick/ dumb question, Brandon...How do you usually fixture the piping for butt welds? I tried C-clamps, but no matter what I did, the pipe seemed to always shift on me after the first tack.
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