Im still in high school and for now all my money goes towards my car or other high school stuff(prom, movies, etc.). It's a 2000 cavalier 5-speed. I'm more about speed than looks. What have you guys installed or done to get your j-bodys to giddy-up and go. Thanks in advance.
and i already have a ram-air intake and a chip.
1st step, get rid of the "chip". It doesnt do anything.
It takes alot of money to make the 2200 "quick". How much are you looking to spend?
I'd like to see this "chip" you have, first off. Second, I'd do the exhaust and header next, unless you want to save the money for turbo.
2010 Honda Fit LX
I wanna build it up for awhile. My budget still consists of christmas and birthday! (: well, at least for a year or two. I figured i'd get a turbo first and then run 4 or so psi on the stock engine then build it from there.
Wait and save money man. You will run your self into nothing building those 2200's, or you could always swap an Ecotec in
SLOCAV wrote:Wait and save money man. You will run your self into nothing building those 2200's, or you could always swap an Ecotec in
ahem.....the 2.2 can do it. just not many build it.
^ the 2.2 costs a lot more to do it... but in reality you can make any motor fast.... the crapier ones take more money and creativity though.... its not a good motor to start building on with no knowledge of engine builds, because its not as simple as slaping parts together...
As for the "chip" statement... being able to "Chip" an ECU went away with OBD1 in 1995/1996 .... there is no way your 2000 can be legitly chipped.... modern computers either get tuned, or replaced with stand alone units...
if i were you i would not drop another dime in to that car, and either buy one with a 2.4 or eco, or save up for a motor swap to either a 2.4 or eco or 3400 v6.
The 2.2 LN2 isn't a bad motor and is very capable... you just have to keep in mind that it wasn't specifically made to be a performance 4 cylinder, it didn't come behing the "Z24" or "LS Sport" tags for a reason... It is however a perfectly capable motor and is one hell of a workhorse.. you do have to take that extra step to give the lil engine some umpf behind it... It's also not a bad motor to learn on because it's very simple, there's not a whole lot to it. I personally LOVE working on that engine.. I love OHV technology.
Now if you are looking for a peppy little N/A car... It's going to be a lil more difficult to acheive than if you were to even slap some bolt ons on an LD9 or L61.
The LN2 block is cast iron, so it's a bit heavy... not a bad thing though if you want to push a lot of boost at it, that cast iron block gives those cylinder walls some more support behind em.
I also wouldnt think about boosting it, if your only means of support are birthday & christmas money. Disregarding the engine itself... a turbo kit boosting 4 psi versus 20... still needs all the same parts & support. Also the fact that you put a "chip" on it and are asking what you should do it it leads me to believe you need to do ALOT more reasearch/reading before talking about boosting it.
Mine is partially built and was boosted on 9 psi on a 60-1 T3/T4, for 2 years. Not going to lie, it hauled ass... so those that say you are waisting time building one, don't know what they are talking about. Mine could barely find traction in 3rd gear.. never mind 1st & 2nd. You just need to read & learn about the engine and what works well for it, and figure out your budget and of course, what you are willing to risk. You have to work hard to play hard. I want to go a different route this time around so it's getting Eco swapped next year. I will still always have a soft spot for the LN2 and I had a ton of fun with mine..
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Friday, April 09, 2010 10:53 AM
Speedline02 (GME Chat!!) wrote:^ the 2.2 costs a lot more to do it... but in reality you can make any motor fast.... the crapier ones take more money and creativity though.... its not a good motor to start building on with no knowledge of engine builds, because its not as simple as slaping parts together...
Jazer wrote:The 2.2 LN2 isn't a bad motor and is very capable... you just have to keep in mind that it wasn't specifically made to be a performance 4 cylinder, it didn't come behing the "Z24" or "LS Sport" tags for a reason... It is however a perfectly capable motor and is one hell of a workhorse.. you do have to take that extra step to give the lil engine some umpf behind it... It's also not a bad motor to learn on because it's very simple, there's not a whole lot to it. I personally LOVE working on that engine.. I love OHV technology.
ha... we basically just said the same thing looking at the motor from opposing sides...
i still disagree on using it as a learning motor... the mechanics may be real simple... but it takes some serious thought to make it fast... you can't just throw mild mods like secret cams like you can in an LD9 and make power... you'd need to spend more time researching exactly what parts compliment each other to make power...
jazer wrote:The LN2 block is cast iron, so it's a bit heavy... not a bad thing though if you want to push a lot of boost at it, that cast iron block gives those cylinder walls some more support behind em.
So is the LD9... the only motor with an aluminum block is the eco, and in that case you need to upgrade the Sleeves to come close to handling the abuse a cast iron block can accept
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Friday, April 09, 2010 11:12 AM
^^ Yeah, I know that, but just something I wanted to point out to the OP. Its a heavy son of a bitch and you only have 4 intake valves and 4 exhaust valves flowing that air through there to move that thing.. but the benefit is the durability you have with a cast iron engine block.
I still think its a decent starter motor if you do the proper research (like you should with any engine that you want to learn about).. I learned on it just fine.. The only reason you can't just easily swap the cam in the LN2 is due to the location... but it takes just as well to a more agressive cam. My cam made a night/day difference. But I also had the engine on a stand to install it, lol.
I won't lie, I am a bit bias, I've defended the LN2 on many occasions on this forum, because I've seen just the beginning of what it's capable of.. and a lot of the people that say that it sucks, and to drop in an eco, dont really have the experience to back up their opinion. Not everyone.. but a lot of them.
Makes me wish even more that I had the money at the time to keep going with it, instead of dropping the project to put money into my SS instead and get it back on the road.
If you are looking for a race car like GM created with the Ecotec platform, I can't see the LN2 being able to do it... but it is more than capable of what most people would be content with power-wise, just takes a little work..
Speedline02 (GME Chat!!) wrote:^ the 2.2 costs a lot more to do it... but in reality you can make any motor fast.... the crapier ones take more money and creativity though.... its not a good motor to start building on with no knowledge of engine builds, because its not as simple as slaping parts together...
As for the "chip" statement... being able to "Chip" an ECU went away with OBD1 in 1995/1996 .... there is no way your 2000 can be legitly chipped.... modern computers either get tuned, or replaced with stand alone units...
if i were you i would not drop another dime in to that car, and either buy one with a 2.4 or eco, or save up for a motor swap to either a 2.4 or eco or 3400 v6.
well, its not a chip but it was like something you plug in and it changed it or whatever I had my father do it seeing he has a ton of experience with cars. I'll hopefully have a pic of his car pretty soon. Now like i may have got some of you confused on I also work part-time in fast food :/ but should i do like an exhaust/headers or a turbo first? I could care less how much it costs im really good at saving up money, and i love this car, I'd rather make it fast than get something thats already fast.
^^^ if you plugged something in and "tuned" the computer, you have a tune, not a chip. hopefully he used HPTuners.
you do realize that the 2200 puts out about 110 Base Horsepower and less than 100 Horsepower to the wheels while the 2.4 DOHC LD9 puts out 150 base and the 2.2 DOHC Eco puts out about 141 Base. also your only going to be able to boost a stock motor to around what the DOHC motor does bone stock...
if money is no object, and you want it EPIC fast, go with a DOHC.. as of yet there are no 2200s pushing 500 WHP or above...
Quote:
and i love this car, I'd rather make it fast than get something thats already fast.
if you want to make it fast, spend thousands of dollars and do it right... or spend hundreds of dollars on a swap and then start building that up... i would say in the end it would balance out, but it really doesn't.. If you are looking just for 200-250 horsepower... with a lot of research, time, effort, and money you can build the 2200 to get there... but thats your upper limit, especially with no knowledge of high performance motor builds... you just won't generally get above 250 without starting to manufacture your own custom stuff, and unless you have access to a fabrication shop or have the money to spend at one, its gonna get crazy stupid...
any of the suggested motors can reach 250 N/A... (granted it takes a ton of money to get there, they can reach it without any really insane modificatons (well maybe the eco would need it, but they can all reach 200 fine)) the two DOHCs have reached epicly high numbers turboed (400 - 500 horsepower to wheels)... you get a better base and more potential with a swap.
so it depends on if you want to be fast... or just faster than now but slower than everyone else... if you go with the post below this one... you'll be faster than you are now, but slower than any of the motors stock that you could swap in to... its your money and your motor, but quite often, people do minor mods to the 2200, start doing major ones, see little gain, get pissed off, want to swap motors, and wish they had their money back they sunk in to the 2200... I agree with Jazer that they are very mechanically simple to work on... and are great motors for a daily driver beater because they can take a lot of abuse and are simple to fix when something breaks... but they just aren't laid out to be high performance engines in any capacity, and every 2200 build on here took some serious research to figure out how to make them fast.... and still 95% have not exceeded 250 WHP
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, April 10, 2010 4:10 AM
guys did you read OP's posts?
hes a typical broke j-body owner looking to do mods. and im not saying that as a bad thing... thats how most of us all started out with one car or another.
honestly chip, heres the mods you can do on your budget/income: intake, cat back exhaust, motor mounts, short shifter, header.
thats really all you should be looking to do right now. being in highschool and trying to do a good turbo build is hard and may involve a lot of downtime while you, your buddies, or a shop works in your car.
youre young and theres plenty of time to learn so just do whatever you think is cool/fun. if you want a crazy body kit and some neon underlights go for it. some people will call you a ricer, say youre retarded, wasting money or say thousands of other things. who cares though, its your car do what you like
also i saw from your registry that youre new to the forum so welcome to the org. theres tons of great info here but a lot of bullsh!t as well.
Eat my shift
Sold my geo today.
gotta extra $1000. so now im at $1550. So im just checking since you guys have said i do the swap? and ecotec 2.2 or 2.4 dohc? and typically how much would one cost?
Much to say here...
First off, there's an old saying: "Speed is just a question of money... How fast do you really want to go?"
Second: I'd like to see this "Ram-air" system you've installed... Just to see of the design of it lives-up to the moniker.
Funny thing about the LN2: It derives head design from the big-block Chevy V-8, which (IIRC) was first intended as a truck engine... And look how well that performs. Especially after Gale Banks decided to turbocharge it! The only real flaw to the LN2 was GM never intended to make it a high-performance engine. Nor did they ever advertise it as such, so very few people sought to use it in build-ups or make anything much for it in the way of parts in the aftermarket. It's kinda like the 366ci BBC truck engine or the 348ci Mk-II V-8 that the 409 was based on... The potential is there, but you'll find yourself doing more work & searching for non-specific parts that will work with it to achieve it. But once you do it, how well you do will amaze people. Just ask Bob Guptil... a regular on this sight.
Finally: 110hp? Are you sure you've got that number right? Because according to the Chilton's manual, it's 120 in FWD apps & 118 in S-truck apps (<-The truck have to turn a mechanical fan also. So....). Geez, my mom's feedback-carb'd Olds 260ci V-8-powered Cutlass put out 110hp... Shows you how far we've come in being clean & efficient!
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
I have a 97 cavalier with the 2.2 that i have build and put 2000 into the engine and 1000 into the trans getting it to run mid 15's without a turbo i have got 10.5:1 comp pistons, stage 1 cam, ported polished and shaved head, eagle rods, HD valve springs, stainless steel valves, block bored .20 over, 1.6 roller rockers, roller lifters, 8mm plug wires, 440 cc injectors, and an LT1 fuel pressure regulator, the 2200 is fun to build but if i had a 2000+ body i would think about the eco swap its considerably easier then swapping it into a pre 00, also before you go boosting that engine stock you should think about building it up the first engine i had i just slapped an e bay turbo on it and bent push rods then replaced them only to have the bearings go out in the turbo but thats what i got for an e bay turbo i recommend finding a t25 off an eclipse or getting a turbo kit from a reliable turbo kit builder
Erik Packard
The biggest question that you need to answer for yourself is " How deep in the rabbit hole do you want to go?" Simply put it this way, No matter what engine you chose, no matter what direction you go (N/A, Nitrous, Supercharger or Turbo) its going to be expensive. I know you can cut cost's by ebay, junk yard, classified ads...etc.etc.etc. but bottom line is your looking at $2,000+ in every direction.
If you have some knowledgable help buy an engine, buy the pieces to build it and then choose what direction you go and make the swap when it's done so you dont loose your daily driver.
Speedline02 (GME Chat!!) wrote:you do realize that the 2200 puts out about 110 Base Horsepower and less than 100 Horsepower to the wheels while the 2.4 DOHC LD9 puts out 150 base and the 2.2 DOHC Eco puts out about 141 Base. also your only going to be able to boost a stock motor to around what the DOHC motor does bone stock...
My only beef is with this statement... My car was waaaay faster than any bone stock J, that's for sure. It still would have been by quite a bit, had I just slapped a turbo kit on the stock motor. I ran a decent amount faster than a modified SRT4, from 0-100, before I even fine-tuned it...
Imphat0260 put down high 200s, I believe 270/280 or 280/290 hp/tq,
to the wheels, still on the stock block... He had headwork done.. very similar build to what I ran, before I cammed mine... But a port n polish, valve job & some stronger supporting valvetrain is basically all that the headwork entails... and considering you have half as many valves, this is pretty easily done & quite a bit cheaper than beefing up a DOHC head.
Did Ryan & I have freaks or something?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, April 13, 2010 9:07 AM
Jazer wrote:Did Ryan & I have freaks or something?
If by "freak" you mean "substantially boosted engine"... then, yes.
People love to bash the LN2, but the few who have put any real amount of effort into building it have been rewarded very well.
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
Jazer wrote:Speedline02 (GME Chat!!) wrote:you do realize that the 2200 puts out about 110 Base Horsepower and less than 100 Horsepower to the wheels while the 2.4 DOHC LD9 puts out 150 base and the 2.2 DOHC Eco puts out about 141 Base. also your only going to be able to boost a stock motor to around what the DOHC motor does bone stock...
My only beef is with this statement... My car was waaaay faster than any bone stock J, that's for sure. It still would have been by quite a bit, had I just slapped a turbo kit on the stock motor. I ran a decent amount faster than a modified SRT4, from 0-100, before I even fine-tuned it...
Imphat0260 put down high 200s, I believe 270/280 or 280/290 hp/tq, to the wheels, still on the stock block... He had headwork done.. very similar build to what I ran, before I cammed mine... But a port n polish, valve job & some stronger supporting valvetrain is basically all that the headwork entails... and considering you have half as many valves, this is pretty easily done & quite a bit cheaper than beefing up a DOHC head.
Did Ryan & I have freaks or something?
i can't see a fully bone stock motor + turbo + high boost to reach 200 + HP (just throwing a number out there inbetween a stock DOHC power and your upper 200 number) having any sort of longevity... 100k miles or more?
They love boost....do some top end work to be able to flow it, maybe consider the roller rocker and lifter swap, do the turbo setup the RIGHT WAY and there ya go..
"Hondas are like tampons, every pussy has one!!!"
Speedline02 (GME Chat!!) wrote:Jazer wrote:Speedline02 (GME Chat!!) wrote:you do realize that the 2200 puts out about 110 Base Horsepower and less than 100 Horsepower to the wheels while the 2.4 DOHC LD9 puts out 150 base and the 2.2 DOHC Eco puts out about 141 Base. also your only going to be able to boost a stock motor to around what the DOHC motor does bone stock...
My only beef is with this statement... My car was waaaay faster than any bone stock J, that's for sure. It still would have been by quite a bit, had I just slapped a turbo kit on the stock motor. I ran a decent amount faster than a modified SRT4, from 0-100, before I even fine-tuned it...
Imphat0260 put down high 200s, I believe 270/280 or 280/290 hp/tq, to the wheels, still on the stock block... He had headwork done.. very similar build to what I ran, before I cammed mine... But a port n polish, valve job & some stronger supporting valvetrain is basically all that the headwork entails... and considering you have half as many valves, this is pretty easily done & quite a bit cheaper than beefing up a DOHC head.
Did Ryan & I have freaks or something?
i can't see a fully bone stock motor + turbo + high boost to reach 200 + HP (just throwing a number out there inbetween a stock DOHC power and your upper 200 number) having any sort of longevity... 100k miles or more?
As far as longevity... once you start modding, specifically boosting an N/A motor... you need to accept the risk of losing that.
OHV notec wrote:Jazer wrote:Did Ryan & I have freaks or something?
If by "freak" you mean "substantially boosted engine"... then, yes.
People love to bash the LN2, but the few who have put any real amount of effort into building it have been rewarded very well.
Sorry that was sarcasm, lol
Bolded statement, as this is what all my @!#$ is getting at, haha.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, April 14, 2010 7:38 AM
well i could always drop a big turbo on virtually any stock motor, dial up the boost controller to like 40 PSI, and dyno it once... see like 400 WHP and then it'll blow... that doesn't count...
a motor needs longevidty... otherwise it reached a number it simply cannot sustain, and that doesn't seem like that should count...
Speedline02 (GME Chat!!) wrote:well i could always drop a big turbo on virtually any stock motor, dial up the boost controller to like 40 PSI, and dyno it once... see like 400 WHP and then it'll blow... that doesn't count...
a motor needs longevidty... otherwise it reached a number it simply cannot sustain, and that doesn't seem like that should count...
Yes, anyone could do that and get some impressive numbers, but the examples I used were not pushing the motor to it's max, but showing what it is capable over a period of time. Both mine & Ryan's were turbod for a few years, his even longer than me, and he was most likely pushing a reasonable amount more.. I did pop mine, but it was due to oil starvation, wrist pin seized up, bent the rod to it's max & shattered it... and if I remember correctly, Ryan didnt pop his until he was messing around with it, and turned the boost way up. I remember because he called me when he dialed the boost up to 20 psi and the car still stuck around for awhile on that amount of pressure, through a good sized T3/T4. lol. He may have turned it up even more, I can't remember. So as long as you have a good tune and are not being totally irresponsible, there's no reason the motor cant hold up to a
reasonable amount of power...
You have to be responsible, like you would with any build... But you have to pay to play and accept the possibilities, lol. I've payed my dues multiple times over, but Id still go the same route because of what I learned in the process.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, April 14, 2010 8:38 AM
Speedline02 (GME Chat!!) wrote:well i could always drop a big turbo on virtually any stock motor, dial up the boost controller to like 40 PSI, and dyno it once... see like 400 WHP and then it'll blow... that doesn't count...
a motor needs longevidty... otherwise it reached a number it simply cannot sustain, and that doesn't seem like that should count...
My stock engine did have longevity.... When I first boosted it in 2001-2002, I ran a completely stock bottom end with some minor head work(port/polish--gasket match with bowl work) with a T3 Super 60. I netted 244.07whp/256.65wtq. I ran it like this until 2006. In 2006 I changed turbos. I installed a T3/T4 60 trim with a Stage 3 wheel. This netted me at 287.4whp/271.6wtq. I ran it like this until Spring 2008 when I finally popped a ring land due to the rings butting together (not because of detonation like most). I was running well over 20psi when it blew, and I am 100% sure it was producing 300whp+ but I never made it to the dyno for actual proof. I blew it stomping amud-holee in a Terminator's @ss. With proper tuning (this is the key here folks!) along with proper maintenance, the stock bottom end will handle some good power. I think that my stock motor had the longevity as it was beat on (not babied by any means) for 7 years and 80K miles...
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
