Alright, so im considering this, but im just wondering
1) what EXACTLY needs to be done to run HO cams safely in a LD9 head. I know about the cps pad and the hex drive, and it obviously needs a tune... but what has to be done to the head and valvetrain? ive seen bits and pieces in seearching but nothing really answers the questions very completely :\
2) what exactly needs to be done to get the 086 (i think?) head on the LD9 block? cuz i heard that was an option
All you NEED is the hex drive. The cams will run on the stock tune, but above 4k you will lean out. You can run the stock springs but you can only rev to 7k safely.
What you should run is 2.3 valve springs and caps with 2.4 retainers. You should also run a ported head to take advantage of the lift of the cams. A mild tune and your set.
actually, you dont even NEED the hex. that is if you do not care about power steering...
basically, you find HO cams in a yard and want to use them... go ahead and grab:
cams/towers/lifters
valve springs/retainers
change out all the stuff on the LD9 head for the 2.3 stuff, bolt the cam towers on. done.
Don't forget to grind clearance in the camtower lifter holes where the wider/taller 2.3 lobes hit...
"The FACTS are always subject to CHANGE once the TRUTH is applied"
"In the entire history of man the only stupid questions are the ones that don't get asked"
make sure you get the exhaust housing, and the exhaust cam and housing will drop in. i put 15 k on stock springs with an HO exhaust. you just cant change your rev limiter, and take full advantage of the power band.
The intake came will need the Hex insert and the CPS pad, and you'll need to modify your intake housing to accept the bigger lifters. If you go with a bigger than HO cam, you'll need to modify the housing in addition to the lifters.
this is what ive done:
Fully ported and polished the head
Car customs 1mm oversized stainless valves
HO Springs
Clyde sold me a set of retainers that adapt the springs to the 2.4 valves. I don't know how many sets exist
HO lifters
Crane Cams Oversized HO Cams
-Intake Cam Modified by Todd Miller
HO Exhaust housing
2.4 Intake Housing modified by Todd Miller.
and i plan to tune when i get the motor broken in.
Dan Cummings wrote:Alright, so im considering this, but im just wondering
1) what EXACTLY needs to be done to run HO cams safely in a LD9 head. I know about the cps pad and the hex drive, and it obviously needs a tune... but what has to be done to the head and valvetrain? ive seen bits and pieces in seearching but nothing really answers the questions very completely :\
2) what exactly needs to be done to get the 086 (i think?) head on the LD9 block? cuz i heard that was an option
answers:
1)there are many different ways to run the HO cams depending what your plans are with the motor,
-you can do what jmarks said but.......HO cams on stock injectors will lean out anywhere from 3000-4000 rpm, depending on your setup, atmosphere and tune.
-you can do what Brad Wheeler said but....would need port and polish, tune and no power-steering can be a bitch, but you will be able to easily convert to the 2.3 powersteering with very little modification.
-If you have the money then go with what Kyle said to do, only thing missing is injectors and a tune.
Now seeing as there are those ways, and my ways depends on route you are going, either way, your bottom end may or may not last long, especially if you will be staying with stock bottom end, varies on the mileage on the engine itself and how well you took care of it.
I'm leaning towards with how many times there have been questions I should spend time to do a write-up/ sticky on how to do it, there are good advice from people and some bad advice, I have done neither of those suggestions seeing as how I found out about 5-6 different ways to do the setup. if you have any questions, Brad Wheeler, Paul, me or Kyle are the ones you should ask, there may be more but I can't remember everyone lol. But there is also lots of information for you to read involving all these different swaps
"As I lay rubber down the street, I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God protect my ride." -Amen
^wow.......
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
What Josh? I'm only telling him the facts lol, tired of all the wrong info out there
"As I lay rubber down the street, I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God protect my ride." -Amen
and I forgot to add this...........
086 head info you didn't look to hard sorry
"As I lay rubber down the street, I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God protect my ride." -Amen
AJ B wrote:What Josh? I'm only telling him the facts lol, tired of all the wrong info out there
Meh.....I agree with all said save for some "I am infantry follow me" undertone to it. However, I also agree with you on there being enough wrong info too...
Ignore me, carry on.... I'm satisfied with your reasons.
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
jmarks82 wrote:All you NEED is the hex drive. The cams will run on the stock tune, but above 4k you will lean out. You can run the stock springs but you can only rev to 7k safely.
What you should run is 2.3 valve springs and caps with 2.4 retainers. You should also run a ported head to take advantage of the lift of the cams. A mild tune and your set.
So if the stock springs could handle revving to 7k safely, what would be safe with the HO springs? And would the 2.4 oiling system keep up with it?
Paying someone to install parts and bragging about it being fast, is like watching someone bang your wife and being proud to raise their kids.
ok, so just to clarify a little, and hopefully AJ can answer me since he seems to definately have the know how, im planning on building up my motor to be a relatively peppy DD, i dont plan on boosting any time soon, if ever, i just want to go for maybe like 160ish to the wheels maybe slightly more, with obviously a few more modifcations since i know HOs wont get me there alone :p haha im not that stupid
and cuz i cant edit, it sounds like the best way is to get new springs etc, throw em in, get a tune? as far as like, bang for ur buck goes?
AJ B wrote:Dan Cummings wrote:Alright, so im considering this, but im just wondering
1) what EXACTLY needs to be done to run HO cams safely in a LD9 head. I know about the cps pad and the hex drive, and it obviously needs a tune... but what has to be done to the head and valvetrain? ive seen bits and pieces in seearching but nothing really answers the questions very completely :\
2) what exactly needs to be done to get the 086 (i think?) head on the LD9 block? cuz i heard that was an option
answers:
1)there are many different ways to run the HO cams depending what your plans are with the motor,
-you can do what jmarks said but.......HO cams on stock injectors will lean out anywhere from 3000-4000 rpm, depending on your setup, atmosphere and tune.
-you can do what Brad Wheeler said but....would need port and polish, tune and no power-steering can be a bitch, but you will be able to easily convert to the 2.3 powersteering with very little modification.
-If you have the money then go with what Kyle said to do, only thing missing is injectors and a tune.
Now seeing as there are those ways, and my ways depends on route you are going, either way, your bottom end may or may not last long, especially if you will be staying with stock bottom end, varies on the mileage on the engine itself and how well you took care of it.
I'm leaning towards with how many times there have been questions I should spend time to do a write-up/ sticky on how to do it, there are good advice from people and some bad advice, I have done neither of those suggestions seeing as how I found out about 5-6 different ways to do the setup. if you have any questions, Brad Wheeler, Paul, me or Kyle are the ones you should ask, there may be more but I can't remember everyone lol. But there is also lots of information for you to read involving all these different swaps
So i guess i give bad advice? You can tune the stock injectors for HO cams, hmmm i have done it. You can use stock springs, I did it for 15k miles and no problems. The bottom end only lasts as long as the owner takes care of it.
Also the HO cams have a power band up to 6800 rpms, so a 7k limiter works as well.
For the OP, I would get some 2.3 springs, 35mm lifters, a modified stock intake tower, 2.3 exhaust tower, modify the intake cam, get a tune and call it a day. With the option of porting the head.
-jmarks I didn't say you gave bad advice I said stock injectors will lean out, which they will, I see what your saying to increase the injector through a tune, I will not comment whether a good or bad idea because I have seen mixed results on doing that, that seems to be a hit and miss, I'm not saying it can't be done either just saying I personally would not do it (hence me going with bigger and tune for that), plus gives you room in the future for bigger and better if choose that route.
-After a certain mileage every performance shop/ dealership would decide to stop building the top end, like I said in my statement, he CAN BUT, there is no saying how long bottom end will last, using my car as example, I rebuilt at 60,000km, and now have over 330,000km on my motor, I would not chance the cams and my p&p head on that bottom end, and I do oil chances every 4-5000km.
-Yes HO cams do have powerband usually between 6700-7000 but I remember Brad saying a while back HO springs are stronger and why not use them? afterall there has been people that have have valve float using stock springs, so you CAN take that chance but why? if you don't have 2.3 springs available then you could use them but you are taking that risk, I'm not saying you are wrong but seen too much to take a chance, I have installed HO cams 3 different ways already, I have seen what stock springs CAN do, as everyone knows just because it CAN happen doesn't mean it will, but a precaution.
-and without doing at least a minor port and polish you will never be able to use potential of the cams, you will be lucky to get much more power to that of the secret cams, the guy that I installed the ho cams on completely stock head, springs, etc.....he only gained about 3 more HP then he did with secret cams, BUT did shift powerband alot, but then I do agree it is an option
-Transporter, the oiling system will struggle with using the powerband of the HO cams, some of the guys if not most wil say use the 2.3 oiling system (best option for performance), or the route I did when I rebuild a while back and just use mellings pump and bore the oiling lines(recommend a shop to do if you are not comfortable with it), I believe (people correct if I am wrong), but the stock oiling system with HO cams would only REALLY be good to anywhere from 5500-MAYBE6000 untill you will have a drop in pressure.
-Dan if you use springs use retainers also for the 2.3. if you are only going for that for HP just get pullies( MD pullies are awesome), port and polish, your choice HO or secret cams ( that will determine the springs and retainers), 2000+ bottom end (if want to stay with stock pistons
2.3 oiling (if you can get the parts), depending where you want your powerband will determine size of valves to run, exhaust, and LO intake mani and you should be there, if not more, I believe Gary had the same setup and ran his 14s
"As I lay rubber down the street, I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God protect my ride." -Amen
Do you have dyno graphs? Pics of what CAN happen to stock valve springs? Who did the tuning? Any log files from hpt on injector duty cycle?
Everything that you said just said I have already talked about. The OP wants a peppy DD with 160 hp not a drag car.
But you are the master....
AJ B wrote:If you have the money then go with what Kyle said to do, only thing missing is injectors and a tune.
ahh injectors... i guess i need to look more in to it, as its getting closer and closer to my reinstall date... i've heard so many different suggestions for injectors (and most counter each other), i dunno where to go right now. i figure i have until i get it tuned to make a decision on whether to upsize (and what to upsize to) or whether to tune the stock ones...
a lot of people said to use the ford brown tops, while others said thats too much without boost...
/me needs to do more research in the injector department =)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:12 AM
stock 2.4 springs worked with W41 cams... its not necessary to swap springs. stock oil pump is still working. the simplest way to do the swap is to get the cams, towers, and lifters off a 2.3 HO motor and put it on your motor. done deal. its as simple as that and works just fine. now to fully use the power you will need to tune. all the other stuff that every one suggests is just optional extra safety precautions.
Yeah I figured I'd put a new oil pump on while I had the head off. Gear pumps only last so long.
Paying someone to install parts and bragging about it being fast, is like watching someone bang your wife and being proud to raise their kids.
cars with 2.4 valve springs on HO cams dont seem to perform as well as the ones with 2.3 springs...
not a fact, just stating it as an observation.
Skilz had 2.4 springs, his car performed pretty well, then he decided to see what 7-8k rpms were like LOL
SO just to clarify, as this thread is full of confusion...
in reality i can drop in the towers, cams, get a tune and itll be fine
to be totally safe, i SHOULD get the 2.3 lifters and springs, and if possible do the pump conversion, but its not needed
someone please correct me if im wrong
