Oh and I'd like them to last for a while. Going into a 1997 Cavalier 2.2L, with 3 speed auto.
Bosch is a big no. I would get some NGK's.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
Somehow I have a feeling the copper tipped NGK's on that website for $2.99 aren't going to be much better than the stock plugs. Is there something wrong with the Bosch plugs?
ac delco or ngk
ngk is also making the ac delco plugs now
bosch = crap in a GM car or truck
I have to agree with Eric.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
Ok so no Bosch. Like I said AZ doesn't sell the Iridium NGKs, and I prefer to not buy them online unless I can help it. How good are the Autolites? The ACDELCO plugs are OEM and the exact same plugs I have now.
Use the ACDelco spark plugs, I can't stress enough how perfect of a plug they are for our application. Regardless of what you put in it nothing will make a noticeable difference over the OEM stuff.
Well I used the Bosch plugs in our Expedition and it made a huge difference over the OEM Motorcraft plugs. Ran smoother, had more power, got an additional 2mpg over stockers. (when you only get 14/17 that makes a difference). So when putting in a 12 year old car that has lost so much power of the years, this will help I think. So I have narrowed it down to the ACDelco Iridium plugs (non fine-wire tip), Denso Iridium (.4mm tip) and NGK Iridium IX (.6mm tip). I'm guessing that the NGK will probably be the better plug, but what do you all think?
ACDelco for a "stock" engine. NGKs for modded(more than just bolt-ons). Nothing else.
Tinkles
2003 Cavalier 1SV
Bagged and Blown
Tinkles wrote:ACDelco for a "stock" engine. NGKs for modded(more than just bolt-ons). Nothing else.
i have to agree with Kyle.
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all the gm master techs i know recommend ONLY acdelco plugs for gm cars. my original "stock" plugs lastest me 158k miles, and they where the originals. they weren't even bad, just my coil pack. i replaced them though. i dont care what anyone has to say about that. trust the professionals.
NGK manufactures ACDelco plugs. Get some Delco platinums and dont worry about it. Bosch plugs in GM engines will almost guaranteed cause a rough running engine. I had to replace many sets of Bosch plugs in GM vehicles due to them running like @!#$.
Ok so NGK or ACDelco.... The problem. NGK Iridium= Fine wire tip, readily available at local Advance Autoparts. ACDelco= Non-fine wire electrode, harder to find, (not available at the average autoparts retailer). I am just trying to recover lost engine power, so I plan on using a K&N Filter (Replacement one in the airbox, not a conical one) that Engine Restore stuff that I have seen actually works, and some Chevron Techron Fuel system cleaner with these. Will the NGK plugs work just as well/better than the ACDelco ones? I know NGK makes the ACD plugs, but the tip is different.
The platinum tip is wider than the iridium tip. If its a copper plug you will have a really fat tip compared to the other two.
Exactly. From what I know, the thinner tip is better because it requires less voltage to jump the gap, thus the spark will be hotter when the excess is discharged. Also a smaller tip will make it easier to burn off deposits.
you wont notice a difference between the two, especially in a 2.2 pushrod.
Nick wrote:Ok so NGK or ACDelco.... The problem. NGK Iridium= Fine wire tip, readily available at local Advance Autoparts. ACDelco= Non-fine wire electrode, harder to find, (not available at the average autoparts retailer).
Not a problem, you dont need a finewire. It's not necessary, you'll only be wasting your money.
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I am just trying to recover lost engine power,
So get all genuine ac delco parts, plugs, coils, wires, air oil, fuel filters. this will get you back to factory spec.
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so I plan on using a K&N Filter (Replacement one in the airbox, not a conical one)
Not really worth it with nothing else done, the stock delco flows plenty.
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that Engine Restore stuff that I have seen actually works,
No it doesnt. its a friction modifier that slightly reduces the friction in the engine for a short(read till your next oil change) period of time, and is also a waste of money. Also, stop right now with the thinking of "there's sludge buildup in my engine." Only time this ever happens is with extremely cheap oil and filters (fram is about the worst you can get. seriously.) Proper good oil and change intervals will not allow sludge to build up in these engines. I ran my ohv hard for two years. Dropped the pan because i was looking for a tap, and it was as clean as the day it went together. Never once did i use engine flush, restore, or any other such product. Good quality oils, filters, and proper change intervals are the key.
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and some Chevron Techron Fuel system cleaner with these.
Change this to seafoam, and you're golden.
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Will the NGK plugs work just as well/better than the ACDelco ones? I know NGK makes the ACD plugs, but the tip is different.
You will not notice a difference, except you'll have spent roughly $4more per plug.
There's a reason people in this thread have been saying the same thing over and over again. It's because we've tried it. We know what works. There's plenty of information here, you just have to know where to find it.
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Nick wrote:Exactly. From what I know, the thinner tip is better because it requires less voltage to jump the gap, thus the spark will be hotter when the excess is discharged. Also a smaller tip will make it easier to burn off deposits.
Taken directly from the manufacturer's brochure. Doesn't mean it's true.
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Hold on a minute. You've got this confused. I'm not talking about the friction modifier. I've done alot of research on this stuff. Personal accounts, and professional ones too. I don't fully understand how it works, there is something in the engine additive that fills in the scratches in the cylinder walls that are worn in over time and use, causing compression loss (this I understand, and that is where the power loss over the 125,000 mile life of the engine has come from). This is the website road test data. as well as an outside tester.
http://www.restoreusa.com/Engine_Test.html
http://atvconnection.com/Features/Product_Reviews/Restore-Engine-Restorer.cfm
Also, the ACDelco plugs are $6.50, the NGK plugs are $6.99 so I'm not losing anything really. In addition to the mild improvement in air flow, the K&N Filter also is reusable, so I can wash it when it needs cleaning, instead of replacing it. It also has better filtration, and has a million mile warranty. K&N is the only intake company I really trust for filters. I won't use seafoam. Why? I don't need my engine smoking for a whole tank of gas. Techron works just as well, without smoking.
Oh and as for the spark plug thing, it is true. It makes complete sense, if you think about it and know anything about electricity. Is electricity going to jump better from a large flat surface rather than a thin point? And when you have less surface area to disperse heat, its going to get hotter. Thus explaining both things. I was considering E3 plugs but while they seem to work great for Small engines, I guess they develop misfire problems after a few thousand miles so....
Can I have an edit button please?
I fully realize I probably won't get major performance benefits from these plugs. But really, it's not hurting anything to get them. I learned something today. Use NGK and ACDelco plugs only for GM engines. Didn't know that before. So I will be sticking with one of those. But again, at a 50c difference, I'll go for the NGK plugs.
Hah, I just looked up the seafoam stuff. .. For some reason I thought it went into the gas tank.... Oops
Nick wrote:Hold on a minute. You've got this confused. I'm not talking about the friction modifier. I've done alot of research on this stuff. Personal accounts, and professional ones too. I don't fully understand how it works, there is something in the engine additive that fills in the scratches in the cylinder walls that are worn in over time and use, causing compression loss (this I understand, and that is where the power loss over the 125,000 mile life of the engine has come from). This is the website road test data. as well as an outside tester.
http://www.restoreusa.com/Engine_Test.html
http://atvconnection.com/Features/Product_Reviews/Restore-Engine-Restorer.cfm
No, i didnt have it confused. I knew exactly what you were talking about. What it says it cures can never actually happen, unless you run the engine without oil. Plain and simple.
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Also, the ACDelco plugs are $6.50, the NGK plugs are $6.99 so I'm not losing anything really. In addition to the mild improvement in air flow, the K&N Filter also is reusable, so I can wash it when it needs cleaning, instead of replacing it. It also has better filtration, and has a million mile warranty. K&N is the only intake company I really trust for filters.
Fine with me.
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I won't use seafoam. Why? I don't need my engine smoking for a whole tank of gas.
Seafoam only smokes when introduced through a vacuum line or throttle body. When poured in the gas tank, it does not smoke.
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Techron works just as well, without smoking.
I had old guys (the OLD OLD guys, from the hot rod days) coming in every week looking for techron. I asked them to try seafoam one time, and they immediately noticed that the car felt better, and ran smoother. They were completely sold on it. Trust me, nothing really works better than seafoam.
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Oh and as for the spark plug thing, it is true. It makes complete sense, if you think about it and know anything about electricity. Is electricity going to jump better from a large flat surface rather than a thin point? And when you have less surface area to disperse heat, its going to get hotter. Thus explaining both things. I was considering E3 plugs but while they seem to work great for Small engines, I guess they develop misfire problems after a few thousand miles so....
Not really. The resistance of air doesnt decrease with surface area. An air gap is an air gap. As for getting hotter for the self cleaning bit, yeah, not really. See, when these cars run properly (so long as the upstream o2 sensor is still good enough) that the plugs reach self cleaning temperature after 5 minutes of idle, no matter how wide the electrode is. They dont get any buildup on them unless something else (leaking injector, the affomentions bad upstream o2, leaky valve seals) is wrong.
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you can have an edit button for $20/year. and yes, seafoam can be used three ways.
1. A small amount poured through the brake master cylinder power booster vacuum line, to be drawn into the intake and burned. this is the smokeshow method, and works great for any kind of gum in your intake from not changing your fuel filter or using cheap gas.
2. In the gas tank, it works better than any injector cleaner on the market.
3. in the oil before an oil change, pour in up to 1/2 can and let the car idle if you find you really do have any deposits in the crankcase. this WILL break them up, as it is a solvent, and the engine oil must be changed immediately after application.
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I found this thread- but I'm taking it you didn't even look at the independent "tester"
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/engine-restore-does-work-71649.html
You can look through it and decide for yourself, but one way or another I'm only out $7 for it and maybe an oil change. Look I have to keep this car for years and it's already slow and sluggish. I don't want to see it at 150,000+ miles. I'm going to do what I can to get it running as best as I can. If that only means 5 more horsepower, well thats 5 more horsepower than I had before. (At this point its probably like 80-90HP) Again the spark plugs, whatever. I've seen these iridium plugs under ideal circumstances can get up to 3 more horsepower over the OE plugs. One way or another its a spark plug. And if what y'all say is true, then it should work just fine.
And I was confused again about seafoam. I watched the video on their website. I'll give it a try. Sounds promising. I was confused because of the seafoam videos on youtube. I was afraid that would be for a whole tank of gas and that would be a big No for me. I heard that these GM Automatics in the Cavalier/Sunfire like Type F+ ATF better than the normal GM stuff. Is that true? The transmission was just rebuilt 5,000 miles ago so it might not apply.
