the machine shop that is doing my engine wants to make me a set of soild lifters for my engine. they said that these style hydraulic lifters are a weak link, especally at high RPM.
they said a solid lifter would be better for everything, excpet would take more time to setup and adjust.
do you guys think this is something worth trying? or has it been done before?
any reason not to do it?
Solid Lifters on a Quad4/Twin Cam are going to be a pain in the ass to adjust for lash. Because we have no valve cover (only cam towers) there is no screw that you can just adjust to set the lash, you have to use waffers between the lifters and the valve-springs to set lash.. Unless you are going to be revving past 8000 rpms, then there is no need for them. The stock 35mm Quad4 hydraulic lifters will be more than enough. And yes, Mantapart used to sell solid lifters for their Quad4 "Race-Only" engines.
yeah, he mentioned the pucks and adjusting them.... he said that the only thing that might be a pain is clearance.
so maybe i will stick with the hydraulics...
Could you run the larger diameter Quad4 lifters with a normal cam (secret cams, or 2.3L HO) or should you only use the larger lifters with the W41 (410 lift) cams as they were designed for.
I figure if i am going to replace lifters AGAIN... i might as well upgrade... and then i have the option of the larger cams if i want to go that route...
I currently have the secret cams, but contemplating going with the HO cams to get a lil more RPM and better turbo range...
how are they 'the weak link'?? the handful of guys running 400+ whp with either the ld9 or HO never had a problem. (as far as i know)
Riddle me this... riddle me that...
z yaaaa (the riddler) wrote:how are they 'the weak link'?? the handful of guys running 400+ whp with either the ld9 or HO never had a problem. (as far as i know)
I also did 8200RPM with them in there, not sure if thats a weak link LOL
_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**
I have seen stock W41's rev to 7800 RPM. Im going to say that the lifter is not the weak link. Tell the machine shop that the lifters are not an issue THEY need to worry about.
The set of replacement 2.3 lifters in my 2.4 have seen 7500 RPM with .430/222 cams. I have other things wrong with the engine besides lifters.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, May 24, 2008 4:14 PM
ken soggs wrote:yeah, he mentioned the pucks and adjusting them.... he said that the only thing that might be a pain is clearance.
so maybe i will stick with the hydraulics...
Could you run the larger diameter Quad4 lifters with a normal cam (secret cams, or 2.3L HO) or should you only use the larger lifters with the W41 (410 lift) cams as they were designed for.
I figure if i am going to replace lifters AGAIN... i might as well upgrade... and then i have the option of the larger cams if i want to go that route...
I currently have the secret cams, but contemplating going with the HO cams to get a lil more RPM and better turbo range...
Yes.
The 35mm lifters may have been intended to allow for clearance with the LGO cams, but all LO and HO Quads from 90-94 had them. Your weakest links in the stock LD9 valvetrain are going to be the valves and the springs.
ok, is there a good place to get a set of these lifters? I would like to go with a HO cam one of these days...
I understand these are the same lifters used in the original ZR1 corvette... (91 corvette ZR1 with DOHC)
but i cant imagine corvette ZR1 lifters to be too cheap...
is it safe to pull a set out of an old quad4?
how do you know if the car would have the larger lifters or not?
35mm is the larger ones right? what are the stock sized ones?
I already have a ported head, SS valves, and heavy springs.
now i am soon to have a forged bottom end...
so maybe he meant lifters will be MY weakest link...
I also heard on quad4 forums that the lifter are the first to go at high rpms...
DO NOT use used lifters unless they perfectly matched to the camshaft that is also used they mate to.
way to it goes:
new cam-ALWAYS new lifters
used cam-used lifters only if they are used the exact same way and position they were before.
buy new lifters. they used to be unbelievably priced, actually around $600, but nowadays they are closer to $200 if i remember correctly.
Riddle me this... riddle me that...
^oh?
for a nascar car, shure, but ive reused lifters 7 times now.
LG0 and LD9 style.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
I know you can buy new 2.4 lifters from almost any auto parts store. I think the 2.3 ones you can also buy from an auto parts store.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
Taetsch Z-24 wrote:^oh?
for a nascar car, shure, but ive reused lifters 7 times now.
LG0 and LD9 style.
Chris
yea thats all fine n dandy, so you got lucky. do you really want to give advise like that to someone else? its fine if you want to risk ur engine, but to tell somebody its ok is a pretty sh!tty thing to do if you ask me.
Riddle me this... riddle me that...
z yaaaa (the riddler) wrote:Taetsch Z-24 wrote:^oh?
for a nascar car, shure, but ive reused lifters 7 times now.
LG0 and LD9 style.
Chris
yea thats all fine n dandy, so you got lucky. do you really want to give advise like that to someone else? its fine if you want to risk ur engine, but to tell somebody its ok is a pretty sh!tty thing to do if you ask me.
If the lifter isn't scored, Still holds pressure will, and the chamber it came from isn't scorched then it is fine.
My Cav
I give up...
i'm buying a VW those people love trees, so they should love eachother too... "Andy"
Short Hand wrote:If the lifter isn't scored, Still holds pressure will, and the chamber it came from isn't scorched then it is fine.
that has NOTHING to do with why you shouldn't re-use lifters that had been used on a completely different cam.
the reason is because they wear according to the cam they are used with, the lobes DO wear on our cams fairly easily. ive only found a couple out of several 2.3 and 2.4 engines that had the same lift across the board. a lot of cams wear so badly that they are .005 away from what they are supposed to be and in some cases quite a bit more than even that. a lot of the time the lobes are not even the same.
you ever wonder why some people claim the secret cams to be a nice gain and others claim they didn't do jack? its because some get lucky with lobe wear and others do not. the only true way to gauge if they gain or not is to buy both cams completely brand new along with brand new lifters. or find a low mileage set and have them measured, if all the lobes measure to what they are supposed to be, then fine.
i could see re-using the lifters if they have low mileage and are not going into a performance oriented car. but for somebody like ken who is interested in performance, new lifters are a must.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Monday, May 26, 2008 2:16 PM
Riddle me this... riddle me that...
if my arm was not broken (damn 450R!) i would explain in greater detail. but GM says its OK to reuse them as lon as they arnt cracked, scored, or leaking down. thats good enuf for me.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
yeah... surely because that way they didnt have to have the cost of putting new ones in for warranty work.
and again, that would hold up for a stock vehicle with zero performance in mind.
Riddle me this... riddle me that...
I have a set of lifters in my engine that were new when the NEW HO cams went in. That was about 20K ago. Now they are being used with a set of .430/222 cams that have aprox. 4K miles on them.
Also every one of my stock cams have come out within .001" of spec.
I am not convinced that a built street motor needs solid lifters. On an extreme built race motor you may have a case
mitdr774 wrote:I have a set of lifters in my engine that were new when the NEW HO cams went in. That was about 20K ago. Now they are being used with a set of .430/222 cams that have aprox. 4K miles on them.
Also every one of my stock cams have come out within .001" of spec.
Clyde how are those cams treating you so far??
Jason
99 Z24 Supercharged
157hp/171tq - NA
LD9 for Life
mitdr774 wrote:I have a set of lifters in my engine that were new when the NEW HO cams went in. That was about 20K ago. Now they are being used with a set of .430/222 cams that have aprox. 4K miles on them.
Also every one of my stock cams have come out within .001" of spec.
cool, you must have changed your oil like you were supposed to. good for you.
Riddle me this... riddle me that...
how many of "us" are in the 13's even?!
reusing them will be a non-issue.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
I love the cams but i have lost confidence in the bottom end of my car (massive blowby and i had to throw it together wrong last time due to a lack of time). they idle ok and feel awesome from about 4500 and up. never got to a dyno though. One of these days I will have the funds to rebuild the bottom end and maybe get another head ported. Who knows I may just throw a few extra quarts of oil in the trunk and take that POS to the bash. Needs a lot of tuning though. feels strong at 7500 but could probably be a lot better without the S/C reflash.
I always change my oil every 3000 to 4500 miles. Some of the cams I have measured came out of customer cars.
Taetsch Z-24 wrote:how many of "us" are in the 13's even?!
reusing them will be a non-issue.
Chris
wow thats just ignorant... so i spose you think if a car doesnt run 13's it means it doesnt put out 100% of what its got?
Riddle me this... riddle me that...
z yaaaa (the riddler) wrote:Taetsch Z-24 wrote:how many of "us" are in the 13's even?!
reusing them will be a non-issue.
Chris
wow thats just ignorant... so i spose you think if a car doesnt run 13's it means it doesnt put out 100% of what its got?
Personally i myself am with you, I would not re-use lifters no matter what, it simply isnt worth the risk to possibly take out a few thousand dollar engine over a couple hundred bux. However with that being said, you CAN reuse them, the spring pressures are not high enough in these engines to wipe a lobe like you think they would.
However with a super stiff spring, and someone ringing the @!#$ out of the engine i wouldnt advise it.
_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**
thats the thing though, i mostly agree...
performance-new lifters
just a driver-low mileage re-use
ive just seen far to many worn down lobes and extreme wear on these engine's cams to advise someone to re-use a set of lifters for a car intended for a hard life.
Riddle me this... riddle me that...
