For those who've been following some of my experiments, may remember the wooden plenum spacer I made previously. "Wood parts on a motor?!" you might be asking, remember this isn't a stressed point on the motor. The wood is also a good insulator, to isolate the heat of the motor from upper plenum.The purpose of this spacer was to test the theory that an increased plenum volume will aid in top end performance, the same as adding an open plenum spacer on a carbed motor. This was to be track tested when completed.

Here it was while in the fabrication process:


Unfortunately the wood split around the bolt hole, ruining it. A few choice words were said!

Now nearly a year later, I've tried again. This time I used a better grade of wood (red oak) and drilled the bolt holes before cutting the center out. It worked this time!


Starting from the top is the CarQuest (Victor-Reinz) plenum gasket, new red oak spacer, ruler for size reference, the bolts and stud and the old split spacer. Look around the bolt holes that were drilled and you'll see how the wood split.

I just centered the gasket on a red oak 1" X 4" and traced the inner form onto the wood, including the bolt holes. I drilled the bolt holes with an over-sized drill to leave some room for error. The CarQuest/Victor-Reinz gasket was used, because it doesn't bow in like the Fel-Pro gasket did, so I had a more accurate template to work from. It's not a perfect spacer, but considering the crude tools I had to work with, I'd say I did pretty good.

I don't think I'll last till I can get to the track, so I''l probably be putting it on real soon!




Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, September 02, 2007 5:01 PM

Did something fall off this post? Like a picture?

-->Slow

wooooooo hoooooo , post pwned

Just sloppy fingers!

yay for premium and edit function


nice looking stuff , some woods work better than others , not sure which is the best , but ive been told to use balsa wood






Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, September 02, 2007 5:21 PM

Ahhh... now I see. Very nice! I'd say you did a fine job with that. You definitely had better luck than I had playing with rocker arms yesterday.

-->Slow

Im confused my car doesnt look like that, please fill me in?

-Ben



Overall Best times
60' - 1.857 (6/24/07)-(Drag Radials 205-50-15)
330' - 5.552 (6/24/07)-(Drag Radials 205-50-15)
1/8 - 8.690 (7/22/07)-(Conquesrt Radials 195-70-14)
M.P.H. - 81.87 (7/22/07)-(Conquest Radials 195-79-14)
1000' - 11.274 (7/22/07)-(Conquest Radials 195-70-14)
1/4 - 13.442 (7/22/07)-(Conquest Radials 195-70-14)
M.P.H. - 104.08 (7/22/07)-(Conquest Radials 195-70-14)

** ALL MOTOR **
* 181whp @ 7600rpm *
Website: www.benwenzeljr.com

2007 GM Tuner Bash Runner Up - Broken Pressure Plate
#1 Qualifer 13.857 @ 101.49

ben , its for the OHV motor , not the eco

Ah ok, Silly rabit trix are for kids

-Ben



Overall Best times
60' - 1.857 (6/24/07)-(Drag Radials 205-50-15)
330' - 5.552 (6/24/07)-(Drag Radials 205-50-15)
1/8 - 8.690 (7/22/07)-(Conquesrt Radials 195-70-14)
M.P.H. - 81.87 (7/22/07)-(Conquest Radials 195-79-14)
1000' - 11.274 (7/22/07)-(Conquest Radials 195-70-14)
1/4 - 13.442 (7/22/07)-(Conquest Radials 195-70-14)
M.P.H. - 104.08 (7/22/07)-(Conquest Radials 195-70-14)

** ALL MOTOR **
* 181whp @ 7600rpm *
Website: www.benwenzeljr.com

2007 GM Tuner Bash Runner Up - Broken Pressure Plate
#1 Qualifer 13.857 @ 101.49

that was a pretty good idea to use wood but i think i would have looked for another alternative....... however since u are using wood i would definately put some RTV when u mate it to the plenum.. so u dont have to tighten the bolts so much to get a good seal and the wood doesnt crack or anything


_________________________________________________________________
EFFICIENCY DETECTIVE
Fast cars. I respect them ALL. Brand elitism is for fanbois and benchracers

daily: 99 civic Si
deceased: 95 cavy '00 LD9 auto swap (vandalized)

Actually wood has been used for carburetor spacers for over 50 years. Here are a few examples of wood carburetor spacers. A good piece of semi-finished wood, such as the Red Oak 1 X 4 I used is more than smooth enough for a good seal, when used with the gaskets. The wood is also pliable enough to absorb the expansion and contraction of the engine parts, caused by the heating and cooling of the motor.

MadJack wrote:Actually wood has been used for carburetor spacers for over 50 years. Here are a few examples of wood carburetor spacers. A good piece of semi-finished wood, such as the Red Oak 1 X 4 I used is more than smooth enough for a good seal, when used with the gaskets. The wood is also pliable enough to absorb the expansion and contraction of the engine parts, caused by the heating and cooling of the motor.

I never knew that..... i know about the plastic and metal ones, but i have never seen a wooden one until now.......then again i never work on carb'd V8's

Learn something new everyday!


_________________________________________________________________
EFFICIENCY DETECTIVE
Fast cars. I respect them ALL. Brand elitism is for fanbois and benchracers

daily: 99 civic Si
deceased: 95 cavy '00 LD9 auto swap (vandalized)

when are you gonna test this and when will it be available. lol. wil you lose low end in theory with this tho?

I was going to use wood wagon wheels on my 03 Sunfire...

I was going to put it in this week-end, but after being out all night Friday, taking care of my little one, church and then the weather this afternoon, it just didn't get done!

Sweet!!! That brings back memories, I made a wood spacer out of necessity for my top feed injector conversion, and because i discovered it at the last minute, I threw together a wood spacer. Worked great for like 2 weeks. It was much worse then even your first try. (i was only looking for a temporary solution)
Here is what mine looked like:




Then I came up with my more permanent solution. At the time, I worked at the Aerospace department at my college, and worked on the IT staff. I was good friends with the machine guys down stairs. They helped me do my top feed conversion. Anyways, they helped me program this into the new 5 axis CNC machine.





But I love your solution as well. The wood has the benefit of not transmitting the heat of the motor to the throttle body.

Great job. I hope that last and doesn't crack.

Adding that spacer, did it loose low end and gain top end?

According to DesktopDyno, yes. Their not great changes, but they should be noticable, but I want to test it out (at the track for now) before I say if this is true.

Guys, LOL at this.. seriously..
I don' t know weather or not to high five you, or to miss a bit and hit you in the head.. You guys crack me up.

I WOULD really like to see what kinda horse benefit this has, you may not shave anything off in the ET, you might gain .5 MPH ( which could be a weather or launch change )

I would like to see the before and after on a dyno!

Lol... you know, some phenolic plastic from the macmaster catalog isn't THAT expensive lol.... Still, i wouldn't be surprised if it worked, i've always thought that plenum was seriously lacking in volume, even for a stock ohv's low redline.




Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said

Quote:

i've always thought that plenum was seriously lacking in volume

It is, unquestionably.

I have no doubt that Madjack will make a nice piece if he sees a difference with this one. "Only costs a little bit" is a relative term. Just a few years ago $50 was something I'd spend without thinking about it. Now that I own a house I'm budgeted $200 every 2 weeks for "Everything" (Lunch, gas, car parts, &etc). $50 seems like a whole lotta cash now.

-->Slow

Connecting Rod vs. Stroke Analysis is an article that supports what I'm looking at doing. I should gain on the top end horsepower with little or no loss to the bottom end torque. With a 5.589" rod length and a 3.46" stroke you get a rod to stoke ratio ("n") of 1.6153. In other words, I can use bigger valves, ports, runners and plenum and a more radical cam..... Hmmm, sounds like what I'm trying to do! DeskTop Dyno supports this theory also.

I'll be honest, I'll be the first to chime in and support the use of program based engine software, however desktop dyno, is about as good as an excel sheet with a couple of formulas...

There are many better, more expensive things out there, try and search for them. I have one in mind, but I think you'll come across it.

And what you are doing is calling "stroking" its, pretty common place. Stroking a motor will not allow you to use larger valves, your bore will ( need room for the valve ).

I wanna see a real dyno of before and after.

"Stroking" is using a longer stroke crankshaft, which is a method of increasing displacement. I'm talking something a little different here, I'm talking about the airflow characteristics of a motor with a Rod length-to-piston stroke ratio of 1.6153:1. If you read the link above you would understand that a motor with a shorter rod and longer stroke can use a lager intake volume (i.e. cylinder head ports, intake valves, intake runners and intake plenum) with out any or as drastic of a loss in low end torque, while still increasing the mid to upper end horsepower.

As for using larger valves, the stock bore on this motor is 3.504"(89mm), with an intake valve diameter of 1.732" (44mm) and exhaust valve diameter of 1.457" (37mm). These motor can handle up to a 1.84" intake valve (bigger valve seats required) with a stock bore and exhaust valve. I am already bored +.029"(+.75mm) and I'm looking at going to a 1.811"(46mm) intake and a 1.497"(38mm) exhaust. This combo will fits without the need to install bigger valve seats and maintains an "ideal" intake-to-exhaust valve size ratio for efficient air flow. Valve shrouding won't be a problem either, due to the over bore and the fact the heads are of a canted valve design, such as the BBC.

As for engine simulation programs, yes I know there are better ones out there, but for the amount I use it and for what I use it for it more than suffices for what it cost me. I have responsibilities in my life that are far more important than the software or tinkering with the car, which is the same reason I made the spacer out of wood and the same reason I don't purchase a more accurate and more expensive program.

What do you mean by "valve shrouding"?